Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: May 20, 2007 05:44PM
My purpose on the forum is to report my experiences in Siddhaswarupananda’s cult (I [i:edc1db8bf9] left[/i:edc1db8bf9] over 20 years ago), participate in the discussion, and to relay information to discourage people from entering the Science of Identity Foundation or any other cult. Period. I also offer up opinions and questions. One need not stretch the truth, speculate or exaggerate to show the cult for what it is; an injurious waste of time.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: May 20, 2007 05:57PM
At any rate, given the stories of attacks and threats reported on this forum, it is no wonder there has been some confusion regarding certain posts. And naturally, people are concerned about the safety of someone publicly relating such stories. I'm not the only one who thought that some of the posts were odd, contradictory, inconclusive, and scary. My post on 5-15 -07 titled “cults are bad for children and all living things” was only to get clarification, not to attack any one personally.
I recommend that any one exposing the Butler cult follow accepted journalistic guidelines. This would help gain more credibility and support from people who really hold answers and current, insider information. I have a concern that, in my opinion, some efforts to expose the cult may have also inadvertently done the opposite by appearing, at times, unstable. If this is by accident or design, it is impossible to tell.
Anyone can view the Code of Ethics from the Society of Professional Journalists and judge for themselves.
[www.spj.org]
I recommend that any one exposing the Butler cult follow accepted journalistic guidelines. This would help gain more credibility and support from people who really hold answers and current, insider information. I have a concern that, in my opinion, some efforts to expose the cult may have also inadvertently done the opposite by appearing, at times, unstable. If this is by accident or design, it is impossible to tell.
Anyone can view the Code of Ethics from the Society of Professional Journalists and judge for themselves.
[www.spj.org]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: May 20, 2007 06:02PM
[b:036530a5f6]Preamble of Society of Professional Journalists~
”Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues.”[/b:036530a5f6]
[/color:036530a5f6]
[www.spj.org]
”Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues.”[/b:036530a5f6]
[/color:036530a5f6]
[www.spj.org]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 20, 2007 07:32PM
Quote
zelig
At any rate, given the stories of attacks and threats reported on this forum, it is no wonder there has been some confusion regarding certain posts. And naturally, people are concerned about the safety of someone publicly relating such stories. I'm not the only one who thought that some of the posts were odd, contradictory, inconclusive, and scary. My post on 5-15 -07 titled “cults are bad for children and all living things” was only to get clarification, not to attack any one personally.
I recommend that any one exposing the Butler cult follow accepted journalistic guidelines. This would help gain more credibility and support from people who really hold answers and current, insider information. I have a concern that, in my opinion, some efforts to expose the cult may have also inadvertently done the opposite by appearing, at times, unstable. If this is by accident or design, it is impossible to tell.
Anyone can view the Code of Ethics from the Society of Professional Journalists and judge for themselves.
[www.spj.org]
Everyone please note the amount of time which it took for the first lieutenant of trolls to come back and make a response - what's up Z had to telephone Hawaii and wait for a response? Your stories about the cult do not add up - you do not respond to the revealation that you have posted from many many isps. You made an obvious effort to try to expose me and what do you have to gain from that?
Did you ever pause to think that if you wanted to hear from me that you may have sent an email to ask like all the genuine people did?
Who are all these people who back up your opinion that you present as representing?
Why concern yourself with what I am doing when you have sat on your arse for 20 years (??? - since your dares never add up) and condemned how many children to the fate of this cult that you claim to want to prevent?
The only person who has chased away anyone is you - you want to preach about ethics Zelig - first point of credibility who the fuck are you? The invisible man espousing authority when he doesnt even have the courage of his own convictions to reveal his identity even over the safety of the web? The person who cites no sources and scrutinises me who is the one making the effort rather than actually doing anything?
You should have bowed out when your cover is blown - it is better to be thought a fool and a troll than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
MeanReds
()
Date: May 20, 2007 10:03PM
Nevermind cult - certain individuals wil arrive to slow down the progress on exposing Science of Identity. Rather than defeat your argument creating irrelevant discussion is easier. The time frame is interesting though approximately three days is common for suspicious characters to respond.
The amount of man hours that are taken up attempting to hide the information is unbelievable considering it would only take one person (Siddha) to refute it. They would have people recording this thread and the anti-SIF site, others creating other sites like all the Craigslist classifieds quotes ads, the blog sites (here is two more [www.freewebs.com] & [www.myspace.com] ) and then people searching the internet for links and writing letters to the webmasters for removal.
There would be a whole tactical team internationally aimed at damage control like Mahak et al, has been doing over the entire span of the net for the last 6 years. They would have had to pay lawyers, letters have been written, the name change on Healing Noni could have potentially cost thousands if the packaging was changed.
They would be holding meetings to discuss strategies and write response drafts for later approval, all the while this group of people could have been engaged in checking and double checking the expiration date on foodstuffs in Siddha's refridgerator or making more money for the multi-million dollar empire if they had just come forward to answer one girls questions.Rather they resort to death threats, bribes and manipulation of her heart using as bait the person she loves.
Siddhaswarupa's teachings are extremely simplistic and he criticizes most every other religious group and all other vaishnava gurus.
He teaches it is unnecessary for anyone go to India and the internet is bad for a person's consciousness. Scriptures other than those he "approves" are boycotted and he attempts to control all information accessible.
His Kindergarten level teachings would almost only ever be interesting to those who are unfamiliar with eastern philosophy and once a person becomes involved they are shut off from ever learning anything of substance.
Other Vaisnava groups are not as controlling of their followers as Siddhaswarupa.
I was reading about Cult leaders like David Koresh and Jim Jones who believe they are completely pure in all thoughts and behaviors make the darkest aspects of their personalities acceptable to their followers. The natural danger of this is they become increasingly arrogant and paranoid in their unchallenged, unquestionable god-like position.
If Siddha were to allow his followers to question him and seek information elsewhere his empire would crumble as even on this forum the simplest of questions remain unanswered. Questions in his books and video lectures are so obviously pre-prepared and Mike Gabbard too would only answer questions that were pre-approved via email.
"Please Guru, would you offer me a question that I may ask you to receive enlightenment."
The main defense of Siddhaswarupa is from a member who speaks from exile/hiding from SIF (sounds like many of his ex-followers) and has had no involvement for over 30 years. He also says he has little time for the internet yet Mahaksadasa has been involved in the following online forums and sites often defending his siksa guru Siddha or siddha ideals:
Pada - harekrsna.org
India Divine
Yahoo Questions and Answers
WVA forum
Vaishnava Cooperation forum
jswami.info
geocities
Yahoo Vaishnava Council
Pratyatosa.com
oppositerule.naturama.us
VNN
guru.krishna.org
jayananda.com
graciouskrishna.com
krishnascience.com
bhagavat.net
..and many more!
Ananda das mentions Sudama Vipra and Gurukripa regarding illegal activities.
"Some nondevotees — such as the former Hansadutta, Gurukripa and Sudama Vipra — were engaged in gunrunning, smuggling and other heinous offences."
[www.chakra.org]
PADA editor has been kicked off of the (so-called) "Vaishnava Council" discussion group because: we fail to support their real guru, "Jagat Guru Siddhaswarupa Prabhupada," who had to step down from sannyasa due to his scandals.
[www.harekrsna.org]
SIDDHASWARUPA PREACHING ABOUT JESUS? I'm living in Poland for some
months. Today i went to a meditation conference and was positively
surprised that it were held by self intitulated gaudya vaishnavas,
disciples of a disciple of Prabhupada. However, i stranged the fact that
they weren`t selling any Prabhupada book. After, i saw a movie of a lecture
and stranged that the "guru" spoke almost all the time about Jesus. Finally
they chanted mantras, and none were the Hare-Krishna Maha-Mantra. The rest
didn't seem strange to me. Now i'm sure that they are not legitimate
followers of Prabhupada. However i don't mind hearing other stuff, because
i truly know that Prabhupada is the only one guru. My actual problem is if
i can trust them and start participating in their activities or if with
time i will get some creepy people annoying me because i stopped
participating in it. The name of their guru is Sidhaswarupananda
Paramahamsa (Chris Butler). Do you have any information on
him?
[PADA: We consider Siddhaswarupa to be a bit of a nut case. It is sad to
hear that IF you disagree with him, then there will be social pressure,
because he has established a cult in your area. He is not considered as a
legitimate follower of Srila Prabhupada, indeed, he calls himself
"Prabhupada." thanks pd]
[www.harekrsna.org]
Their criminal chaos in God's name is their scriptures, and thus they are all implicated in insulting God thereby, all of them, the GBC, Sridhara, Narayana, BV and BP Puri, Tripurari, Sudhir, Siddhaswarupa, Turya, ad infinitum, they all said that there is no managing system found in scriptures and they all supported the criminal maverick guru system. Srila Prabhupada said that there was supposed to be a managing system in 1936, but instead that there were envious fools, severe offenders, and in sum a pack of Rocana's and his cockroach gurus that destroyed that system.
[mitglied.lycos.de]
Of course there are many de facto disciples of Sridhara like Mahaksya dasa. He says it is fully acceptable for people like Siddharaswarupa to "dress up" and use the title of "Prabhupada." Never mind that Siddhaswarupa was involved in a scandal with his secretary and he eventually had to marry her. Folks like Mahaksya are another version of the (deviants should) "wear the uniform and adopt the titles of the messiah" ideology.
[www.harekrsna.org]
Consider the secrecy and paranoia surrounding this group there are many details they are attempting to protect and a criticism over the net causes such panic. This expose has been a long time coming and those attempting to divert attention are only adding to it ironically.
The amount of man hours that are taken up attempting to hide the information is unbelievable considering it would only take one person (Siddha) to refute it. They would have people recording this thread and the anti-SIF site, others creating other sites like all the Craigslist classifieds quotes ads, the blog sites (here is two more [www.freewebs.com] & [www.myspace.com] ) and then people searching the internet for links and writing letters to the webmasters for removal.
There would be a whole tactical team internationally aimed at damage control like Mahak et al, has been doing over the entire span of the net for the last 6 years. They would have had to pay lawyers, letters have been written, the name change on Healing Noni could have potentially cost thousands if the packaging was changed.
They would be holding meetings to discuss strategies and write response drafts for later approval, all the while this group of people could have been engaged in checking and double checking the expiration date on foodstuffs in Siddha's refridgerator or making more money for the multi-million dollar empire if they had just come forward to answer one girls questions.Rather they resort to death threats, bribes and manipulation of her heart using as bait the person she loves.
Siddhaswarupa's teachings are extremely simplistic and he criticizes most every other religious group and all other vaishnava gurus.
He teaches it is unnecessary for anyone go to India and the internet is bad for a person's consciousness. Scriptures other than those he "approves" are boycotted and he attempts to control all information accessible.
His Kindergarten level teachings would almost only ever be interesting to those who are unfamiliar with eastern philosophy and once a person becomes involved they are shut off from ever learning anything of substance.
Other Vaisnava groups are not as controlling of their followers as Siddhaswarupa.
I was reading about Cult leaders like David Koresh and Jim Jones who believe they are completely pure in all thoughts and behaviors make the darkest aspects of their personalities acceptable to their followers. The natural danger of this is they become increasingly arrogant and paranoid in their unchallenged, unquestionable god-like position.
If Siddha were to allow his followers to question him and seek information elsewhere his empire would crumble as even on this forum the simplest of questions remain unanswered. Questions in his books and video lectures are so obviously pre-prepared and Mike Gabbard too would only answer questions that were pre-approved via email.
"Please Guru, would you offer me a question that I may ask you to receive enlightenment."
The main defense of Siddhaswarupa is from a member who speaks from exile/hiding from SIF (sounds like many of his ex-followers) and has had no involvement for over 30 years. He also says he has little time for the internet yet Mahaksadasa has been involved in the following online forums and sites often defending his siksa guru Siddha or siddha ideals:
Pada - harekrsna.org
India Divine
Yahoo Questions and Answers
WVA forum
Vaishnava Cooperation forum
jswami.info
geocities
Yahoo Vaishnava Council
Pratyatosa.com
oppositerule.naturama.us
VNN
guru.krishna.org
jayananda.com
graciouskrishna.com
krishnascience.com
bhagavat.net
..and many more!
Ananda das mentions Sudama Vipra and Gurukripa regarding illegal activities.
"Some nondevotees — such as the former Hansadutta, Gurukripa and Sudama Vipra — were engaged in gunrunning, smuggling and other heinous offences."
[www.chakra.org]
PADA editor has been kicked off of the (so-called) "Vaishnava Council" discussion group because: we fail to support their real guru, "Jagat Guru Siddhaswarupa Prabhupada," who had to step down from sannyasa due to his scandals.
[www.harekrsna.org]
SIDDHASWARUPA PREACHING ABOUT JESUS? I'm living in Poland for some
months. Today i went to a meditation conference and was positively
surprised that it were held by self intitulated gaudya vaishnavas,
disciples of a disciple of Prabhupada. However, i stranged the fact that
they weren`t selling any Prabhupada book. After, i saw a movie of a lecture
and stranged that the "guru" spoke almost all the time about Jesus. Finally
they chanted mantras, and none were the Hare-Krishna Maha-Mantra. The rest
didn't seem strange to me. Now i'm sure that they are not legitimate
followers of Prabhupada. However i don't mind hearing other stuff, because
i truly know that Prabhupada is the only one guru. My actual problem is if
i can trust them and start participating in their activities or if with
time i will get some creepy people annoying me because i stopped
participating in it. The name of their guru is Sidhaswarupananda
Paramahamsa (Chris Butler). Do you have any information on
him?
[PADA: We consider Siddhaswarupa to be a bit of a nut case. It is sad to
hear that IF you disagree with him, then there will be social pressure,
because he has established a cult in your area. He is not considered as a
legitimate follower of Srila Prabhupada, indeed, he calls himself
"Prabhupada." thanks pd]
[www.harekrsna.org]
Their criminal chaos in God's name is their scriptures, and thus they are all implicated in insulting God thereby, all of them, the GBC, Sridhara, Narayana, BV and BP Puri, Tripurari, Sudhir, Siddhaswarupa, Turya, ad infinitum, they all said that there is no managing system found in scriptures and they all supported the criminal maverick guru system. Srila Prabhupada said that there was supposed to be a managing system in 1936, but instead that there were envious fools, severe offenders, and in sum a pack of Rocana's and his cockroach gurus that destroyed that system.
[mitglied.lycos.de]
Of course there are many de facto disciples of Sridhara like Mahaksya dasa. He says it is fully acceptable for people like Siddharaswarupa to "dress up" and use the title of "Prabhupada." Never mind that Siddhaswarupa was involved in a scandal with his secretary and he eventually had to marry her. Folks like Mahaksya are another version of the (deviants should) "wear the uniform and adopt the titles of the messiah" ideology.
[www.harekrsna.org]
Consider the secrecy and paranoia surrounding this group there are many details they are attempting to protect and a criticism over the net causes such panic. This expose has been a long time coming and those attempting to divert attention are only adding to it ironically.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 21, 2007 12:13AM
The Face of SoI in Australia[/color:1176a18adb][/size:1176a18adb]
[img:1176a18adb]http://www.brandonraynor.com/images/braynor/ray.jpg[/img:1176a18adb]
As those who read www.chriskcon.com / www.cultofbutler.com may have already seen SoI finally got in touch with me to try to facilitate a resolution in my relationship - in short to return to me what they took from me in the first place.
In the whole of Australia there is no man that is more involved or influential in SoI than the above Ray Linsley aka Radha Krishna das, when Siddha has an itch "Down Under" RKd is his right hand man - philosophy adviser to the followers on the Gold Coast, receiver and distributor of armageddon warnings, proprietor of Australian School of Meditation, and private 'students only' chants, incidentally instructor for Brandon Raynor School of Massage (www.brandonraynor.com - check out the prices for a course that is not even accredited with the relevant authorities in Australia - $ca-ching$) I am yet to meet one follower (that does not include "new people") in Australia who does not have a cult job. I have had some recent communication with RKd, you can judge for yourself by the following exchange :
Tuesday May 15th 11:10am
Hi cara
As you know I have been very busy for the past few weeks with my family etc. and so have been unable to reply to your emails.
I would again like to make clear to you that Brendon is his own man, who hewants to have a relationship with is up to him, all of that is a separate
issue to our communications.
What it comes down to is, how real is your desire to have dialog? you put
forward constantly that this is what your activities are all about, getting
answers to your questions. As I have said many times I am happy to
communicate to you about these matters, and that offer still stands. So
where to from here? the ball is very definitely in your court, is it all
just for show or is it real?
I detect in our communications that you are seeking a resolution and some
positive direction in your life, that in fact you are looking for happiness
and love, as indeed all living beings are, so how can I be of assistance?
Awaiting you reply,
Regards
RKd
15th May 12:47pm
Hi Radha Krishna das,
I will be blunt, I do not believe that he is at all his own person and the fact that he contacted me recently at your direction and that I have known him to act on your direction in the past only confirms that this is the case. I know that there was a chain of events as a result of Hawaii being made aware that he would be the resolution to the current situation.
My request for communication has never been a show, I will note that it has never been taken up before now and that considerable effort has been put into trying to create competition with chriskcon on the internet rather than answering the frequent invitations. As I said to you I wanted to be proven wrong but the situation with Brendon and the lack of information fourthcoming to the very serious revealations about SIF does not allow for that to happen.
I know very well that SIF is in damage control and wants to get out of this as quickly and as easily as possible.
There is no shortage of issues on the website including the list of unanswered questions and the issues raised in the recent publication of a letter by Jagad Guru.
If you would like to answer questions of mine I have many.
Does it not concern you that despite his claims that he did not accept disciples before ACB left that SIF was actually in existence 6 months previously?
How do you explain all of the letters from ACB criticising Jagad Guru and telling others not to join him? Are you aware that Jagad Guru sold the temple in Hawaii, had followers beat someone who disagreed with him in the temple, continued practices such as psychic sleep meditation in direct contradiction of ACB's teachings and direction and other such activities.
How is it justified that Jagad Guru gave up Sanyassi and that he kept his marriage to Wai Lana a secret and his previous marriage to his secretary in ISKCON a secret from his followers?
If there is nothing to hide on behalf of ASM why have I always encountered difficulty buying lectures even when I was a student and why doesn't ASM provide me with lectures now? If Jagad Guru's teachings are pure then surely those on my website are not doing anyone any harm and would infact be doing him a faavour in getting more followers?
How do you explain the changing of Lord Chaitanya's prayer by Jagad Guru to the Holy Names of the Lord becoming Yoga Sound. Couldn't this rightly be referred to as impersonalism? Please advise where in any Scripture that one of Krishna's Names is Yoga Sound
How do you explain the new inventions of Gauranga Breathing and Jaya Yoga?
How is it possible that as the next in disciplic succession that Jagad Guru is not from India and was not born into a pious family? He was infact born into a karmi meat eating family which is not how the Scripture states that a representative will be provided for?
In his letter on the website Jagad Guru states that having sex for pleasure will attract a materialist soul - how does this allow for his own birth?
Why has Jagad Guru elected to not communicate with me? If he is as compassionate and forgiving as the qualities of a guru in Scripture say that he should be then why has Jagad Guru abandoned me?
That is a lot of questions. I will wait to hear from you
Cara
No response for three days...
Friday, 18 May 2007 9:04 AM
Dear RKd,
When I left there Eric was the only person who stayed in touch with me until I lost contact with him due to losing my phone. Gayatri knew him well and I am sure would know his last name and/or the name of where he worked or someone who did he was well known and liked in Brisbane. I am concerned what may have happened to him and would like to know that he is alright. (note : Eric left shortly after me and I was told by Gayatri dasi that he was bad association and that she could not in "good conscience" help me get in touch with him because "he's gone crazy")[/color:1176a18adb]
I would like to know the facts about the situation with Brendon although I
am sure if you wanted to tell me that you would have by now. I
find tthe changes in his attitude towards me very strange. His "interest" in
amending the situation was obviously not sincere since all he wanted was to have the website taken down and had no interest in seeing me or actually doing anything at all to demonstrate that he was sorry. No amends no forgiveness, even Jagad Guru says this, he has destroyed his own spiritual life and trying to pass the blame on to me will never change that.
You have asked me what do I think will happen in the future and what my
goals are. I would like to know what you think should or could happen. When you first wrote to me you mentioned hatred and anomisity between everyone and wanting to do anything to get the situation to stop. If deotees are so concerned by the situation why is it that they have nothing to say? I have been very clear in what would resolve the situation. You are under the impression that I am wallowing in atheism when I have found since day one that those who I have met who are former members are actually a caring prescence in my life. I do not like being caught in the middle and I did not actually choose to be on the side that I am on now, but it was definitely open to me which the alternative was not.
Regards
Cara
Friday, 18 May 2007 10:35:12 PM
Hi Cara
Re your enquiry about Eric, I know from Gayatri dasi that she catches up
with Eric now and again and he is friendly and happy to hear from her, he isbusy with different things in his life at the moment and misses coming to
the centre and is sure he will come again in the future, so all seems well
with him.
I do not have any special insight into Brendon's motivation or mindset, has
he made mistakes? For sure, has he been irresponsible in his relationship
with you? Yes, he admits it himself, but it seems to me that he is not a
hateful person.
Like everyone he does not enjoy conflict and wants to live as peaceful a
life as possible. I think this is behind his wanting to resolve things with
you. Of course your having the website against his family and friends is a
cause of anxiety for him, so that would naturally be something he would like to resolve, I am sure you can see that.
Does he want to have an amicable relationship with you? Yes I am sure he
does, who needs enemies, better to have friends. (Note : that is why he went and got an AVO against me for no apparent reason and handed out my address to cult lawyers?)[/color:1176a18adb]
Do I think that Brendon and you will ever be boyfriend, girlfriend? No that
will not happen, his decision is to stay with Sita and their son. (Note : This implies to me that he has been asked about the decision here, which I am sure that he has)[/color:1176a18adb]
It seems to me that your "friends" that you describe as a "caring presence"
in your life, have their own agenda that will not lead to any kind of happy,
peaceful life. if you do not see that and embrace that hateful, vengeful
mode of life, then you are the architect of your own unhappiness, is that
what you want? I do not think you do, If not, then try to make decisions
that lead to a better situation in your life.
What do I think could or should happen?
I do not have an immediate answer to that question. As individuals we musttake responsibility and decide what it is we want out of life.
If your early life has been as traumatic as you describe, you would be well
advised to seek professional care to help you work through and resolve the
many traumas that you have spoken about. If I can help you find such a
healthcare professional I would be happy to do so.
It seems to me that somehow or other you need to come to grips with the
reality that Brendon and you will never be together before you can move on in your life. I think this is at the root of so much pain and anguish.
What kind of life can a person lead without regular kirtan and spiritual
association? What chance is there of happiness if a person maintains
animosity towards others? These are questions we all need to consider.
Regards
RKdas
[img:1176a18adb]http://www.brandonraynor.com/images/braynor/ray.jpg[/img:1176a18adb]
As those who read www.chriskcon.com / www.cultofbutler.com may have already seen SoI finally got in touch with me to try to facilitate a resolution in my relationship - in short to return to me what they took from me in the first place.
In the whole of Australia there is no man that is more involved or influential in SoI than the above Ray Linsley aka Radha Krishna das, when Siddha has an itch "Down Under" RKd is his right hand man - philosophy adviser to the followers on the Gold Coast, receiver and distributor of armageddon warnings, proprietor of Australian School of Meditation, and private 'students only' chants, incidentally instructor for Brandon Raynor School of Massage (www.brandonraynor.com - check out the prices for a course that is not even accredited with the relevant authorities in Australia - $ca-ching$) I am yet to meet one follower (that does not include "new people") in Australia who does not have a cult job. I have had some recent communication with RKd, you can judge for yourself by the following exchange :
Tuesday May 15th 11:10am
Hi cara
As you know I have been very busy for the past few weeks with my family etc. and so have been unable to reply to your emails.
I would again like to make clear to you that Brendon is his own man, who hewants to have a relationship with is up to him, all of that is a separate
issue to our communications.
What it comes down to is, how real is your desire to have dialog? you put
forward constantly that this is what your activities are all about, getting
answers to your questions. As I have said many times I am happy to
communicate to you about these matters, and that offer still stands. So
where to from here? the ball is very definitely in your court, is it all
just for show or is it real?
I detect in our communications that you are seeking a resolution and some
positive direction in your life, that in fact you are looking for happiness
and love, as indeed all living beings are, so how can I be of assistance?
Awaiting you reply,
Regards
RKd
15th May 12:47pm
Hi Radha Krishna das,
I will be blunt, I do not believe that he is at all his own person and the fact that he contacted me recently at your direction and that I have known him to act on your direction in the past only confirms that this is the case. I know that there was a chain of events as a result of Hawaii being made aware that he would be the resolution to the current situation.
My request for communication has never been a show, I will note that it has never been taken up before now and that considerable effort has been put into trying to create competition with chriskcon on the internet rather than answering the frequent invitations. As I said to you I wanted to be proven wrong but the situation with Brendon and the lack of information fourthcoming to the very serious revealations about SIF does not allow for that to happen.
I know very well that SIF is in damage control and wants to get out of this as quickly and as easily as possible.
There is no shortage of issues on the website including the list of unanswered questions and the issues raised in the recent publication of a letter by Jagad Guru.
If you would like to answer questions of mine I have many.
Does it not concern you that despite his claims that he did not accept disciples before ACB left that SIF was actually in existence 6 months previously?
How do you explain all of the letters from ACB criticising Jagad Guru and telling others not to join him? Are you aware that Jagad Guru sold the temple in Hawaii, had followers beat someone who disagreed with him in the temple, continued practices such as psychic sleep meditation in direct contradiction of ACB's teachings and direction and other such activities.
How is it justified that Jagad Guru gave up Sanyassi and that he kept his marriage to Wai Lana a secret and his previous marriage to his secretary in ISKCON a secret from his followers?
If there is nothing to hide on behalf of ASM why have I always encountered difficulty buying lectures even when I was a student and why doesn't ASM provide me with lectures now? If Jagad Guru's teachings are pure then surely those on my website are not doing anyone any harm and would infact be doing him a faavour in getting more followers?
How do you explain the changing of Lord Chaitanya's prayer by Jagad Guru to the Holy Names of the Lord becoming Yoga Sound. Couldn't this rightly be referred to as impersonalism? Please advise where in any Scripture that one of Krishna's Names is Yoga Sound
How do you explain the new inventions of Gauranga Breathing and Jaya Yoga?
How is it possible that as the next in disciplic succession that Jagad Guru is not from India and was not born into a pious family? He was infact born into a karmi meat eating family which is not how the Scripture states that a representative will be provided for?
In his letter on the website Jagad Guru states that having sex for pleasure will attract a materialist soul - how does this allow for his own birth?
Why has Jagad Guru elected to not communicate with me? If he is as compassionate and forgiving as the qualities of a guru in Scripture say that he should be then why has Jagad Guru abandoned me?
That is a lot of questions. I will wait to hear from you
Cara
No response for three days...
Friday, 18 May 2007 9:04 AM
Dear RKd,
When I left there Eric was the only person who stayed in touch with me until I lost contact with him due to losing my phone. Gayatri knew him well and I am sure would know his last name and/or the name of where he worked or someone who did he was well known and liked in Brisbane. I am concerned what may have happened to him and would like to know that he is alright. (note : Eric left shortly after me and I was told by Gayatri dasi that he was bad association and that she could not in "good conscience" help me get in touch with him because "he's gone crazy")[/color:1176a18adb]
I would like to know the facts about the situation with Brendon although I
am sure if you wanted to tell me that you would have by now. I
find tthe changes in his attitude towards me very strange. His "interest" in
amending the situation was obviously not sincere since all he wanted was to have the website taken down and had no interest in seeing me or actually doing anything at all to demonstrate that he was sorry. No amends no forgiveness, even Jagad Guru says this, he has destroyed his own spiritual life and trying to pass the blame on to me will never change that.
You have asked me what do I think will happen in the future and what my
goals are. I would like to know what you think should or could happen. When you first wrote to me you mentioned hatred and anomisity between everyone and wanting to do anything to get the situation to stop. If deotees are so concerned by the situation why is it that they have nothing to say? I have been very clear in what would resolve the situation. You are under the impression that I am wallowing in atheism when I have found since day one that those who I have met who are former members are actually a caring prescence in my life. I do not like being caught in the middle and I did not actually choose to be on the side that I am on now, but it was definitely open to me which the alternative was not.
Regards
Cara
Friday, 18 May 2007 10:35:12 PM
Hi Cara
Re your enquiry about Eric, I know from Gayatri dasi that she catches up
with Eric now and again and he is friendly and happy to hear from her, he isbusy with different things in his life at the moment and misses coming to
the centre and is sure he will come again in the future, so all seems well
with him.
I do not have any special insight into Brendon's motivation or mindset, has
he made mistakes? For sure, has he been irresponsible in his relationship
with you? Yes, he admits it himself, but it seems to me that he is not a
hateful person.
Like everyone he does not enjoy conflict and wants to live as peaceful a
life as possible. I think this is behind his wanting to resolve things with
you. Of course your having the website against his family and friends is a
cause of anxiety for him, so that would naturally be something he would like to resolve, I am sure you can see that.
Does he want to have an amicable relationship with you? Yes I am sure he
does, who needs enemies, better to have friends. (Note : that is why he went and got an AVO against me for no apparent reason and handed out my address to cult lawyers?)[/color:1176a18adb]
Do I think that Brendon and you will ever be boyfriend, girlfriend? No that
will not happen, his decision is to stay with Sita and their son. (Note : This implies to me that he has been asked about the decision here, which I am sure that he has)[/color:1176a18adb]
It seems to me that your "friends" that you describe as a "caring presence"
in your life, have their own agenda that will not lead to any kind of happy,
peaceful life. if you do not see that and embrace that hateful, vengeful
mode of life, then you are the architect of your own unhappiness, is that
what you want? I do not think you do, If not, then try to make decisions
that lead to a better situation in your life.
What do I think could or should happen?
I do not have an immediate answer to that question. As individuals we musttake responsibility and decide what it is we want out of life.
If your early life has been as traumatic as you describe, you would be well
advised to seek professional care to help you work through and resolve the
many traumas that you have spoken about. If I can help you find such a
healthcare professional I would be happy to do so.
It seems to me that somehow or other you need to come to grips with the
reality that Brendon and you will never be together before you can move on in your life. I think this is at the root of so much pain and anguish.
What kind of life can a person lead without regular kirtan and spiritual
association? What chance is there of happiness if a person maintains
animosity towards others? These are questions we all need to consider.
Regards
RKdas
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: May 22, 2007 12:40PM
Do you remember the 'Twilight Zone' episode, "The Monsters are Due on Maple Street"? Having once lived in the confines of a cult reminds me of this classic episode. ['The bird Flu is Due on Maple Street'] It nicely depicts the dangers of 'group think'.
[b:a38c000dcb]Opening narration[/b:a38c000dcb]
[i:a38c000dcb]"Maple Street, U.S.A. Late summer. A tree-lined little world of front porch gliders, barbecues, the laughter of children, and the bell of an ice-cream vendor. At the sound of the roar and the flash of light, it will be precisely 6:43pm on Maple Street. This is Maple Street on a late Saturday afternoon. Maple Street, in the last calm and reflective moment before the monsters came."[/i:a38c000dcb]
[b:a38c000dcb]Synopsis[/b:a38c000dcb]
It is mid-evening in September and the street is full of playing children and adults talking. A shadow passes overhead and a loud roar is heard, accompanied by a flash of light. Later, after it has gone dark, the residents of Maple Street find that the telephones no longer work, and there is no power. They gather together in the street to discuss the matter.
Pete Van Horn decides to go into town and see what is happening, but his car will not start and he decides to walk instead. Tommy, a young boy from the neighborhood, pleads with him not to go. He is sure that the outages are part of an alien invasion—just as he has read in books and comics. Furthermore, he says, most of these invasions are preceded by the infiltration of aliens who look human. Naturally no one takes him seriously, but soon the first signs of doubt appear.
Meanwhile another resident, Les Goodman, tries unsuccessfully to start his car. He gets out and begins to walk back towards the other residents when the car starts all by itself. The bizarre behavior of his car makes Les the object of immediate suspicion. The residents begin to discuss his late nights spent standing in the garden looking up at the sky. Les claims to be an insomniac. His problem becomes worse when the lights in his house come on, and the rest of the neighborhood remains in the dark. Suspicion then suddenly switches to Steve when he tries to defuse the situation and prevent it from becoming a witch-hunt. Charlie, one of the loudest and most aggressive residents, pressures Steve about his hobby building a radio that no one has ever seen.
A man is seen walking along Maple Street through the dark, towards the gathered crowd. Panic begins to build and Charlie grabs a shotgun and kills him. When the crowd reaches the fallen man, they realize that it is Pete Van Horn.
Suddenly the lights in Charlie's house come on and he panics, realizing how it looks. He is now the subject of the suspicion. He makes a run for his house while the other residents begin to chase him and throw stones. Terrified, Charlie attempts to deflect suspicion onto Tommy, the boy who originally brought up the idea of alien infiltration. Lights begin turn on and off in different houses, lawn mowers and cars start up for no apparent reason. A riot begins and the hysterical residents smash windows, fight and switch blame from one person to another with little justification.
The episode ends with two Martian observers watching the rioting on Maple Street and discussing how easy it was to create paranoia and panic, and let the people of Earth destroy themselves—one place at a time. One of them tells the other:
"Understand the procedure now? Just stop a few of their machines...throw them into darkness for a few hours and then sit back and watch the pattern. They pick the most dangerous enemy they can find......and it's themselves."
[b:a38c000dcb]
Closing narration[/b:a38c000dcb]
[i:a38c000dcb]"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts... attitudes... prejudices. To be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and the thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is... that these things cannot be confined to... The Twilight Zone."[/i:a38c000dcb]
[en.wikipedia.org]
[b:a38c000dcb]Opening narration[/b:a38c000dcb]
[i:a38c000dcb]"Maple Street, U.S.A. Late summer. A tree-lined little world of front porch gliders, barbecues, the laughter of children, and the bell of an ice-cream vendor. At the sound of the roar and the flash of light, it will be precisely 6:43pm on Maple Street. This is Maple Street on a late Saturday afternoon. Maple Street, in the last calm and reflective moment before the monsters came."[/i:a38c000dcb]
[b:a38c000dcb]Synopsis[/b:a38c000dcb]
It is mid-evening in September and the street is full of playing children and adults talking. A shadow passes overhead and a loud roar is heard, accompanied by a flash of light. Later, after it has gone dark, the residents of Maple Street find that the telephones no longer work, and there is no power. They gather together in the street to discuss the matter.
Pete Van Horn decides to go into town and see what is happening, but his car will not start and he decides to walk instead. Tommy, a young boy from the neighborhood, pleads with him not to go. He is sure that the outages are part of an alien invasion—just as he has read in books and comics. Furthermore, he says, most of these invasions are preceded by the infiltration of aliens who look human. Naturally no one takes him seriously, but soon the first signs of doubt appear.
Meanwhile another resident, Les Goodman, tries unsuccessfully to start his car. He gets out and begins to walk back towards the other residents when the car starts all by itself. The bizarre behavior of his car makes Les the object of immediate suspicion. The residents begin to discuss his late nights spent standing in the garden looking up at the sky. Les claims to be an insomniac. His problem becomes worse when the lights in his house come on, and the rest of the neighborhood remains in the dark. Suspicion then suddenly switches to Steve when he tries to defuse the situation and prevent it from becoming a witch-hunt. Charlie, one of the loudest and most aggressive residents, pressures Steve about his hobby building a radio that no one has ever seen.
A man is seen walking along Maple Street through the dark, towards the gathered crowd. Panic begins to build and Charlie grabs a shotgun and kills him. When the crowd reaches the fallen man, they realize that it is Pete Van Horn.
Suddenly the lights in Charlie's house come on and he panics, realizing how it looks. He is now the subject of the suspicion. He makes a run for his house while the other residents begin to chase him and throw stones. Terrified, Charlie attempts to deflect suspicion onto Tommy, the boy who originally brought up the idea of alien infiltration. Lights begin turn on and off in different houses, lawn mowers and cars start up for no apparent reason. A riot begins and the hysterical residents smash windows, fight and switch blame from one person to another with little justification.
The episode ends with two Martian observers watching the rioting on Maple Street and discussing how easy it was to create paranoia and panic, and let the people of Earth destroy themselves—one place at a time. One of them tells the other:
"Understand the procedure now? Just stop a few of their machines...throw them into darkness for a few hours and then sit back and watch the pattern. They pick the most dangerous enemy they can find......and it's themselves."
[b:a38c000dcb]
Closing narration[/b:a38c000dcb]
[i:a38c000dcb]"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts... attitudes... prejudices. To be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and the thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is... that these things cannot be confined to... The Twilight Zone."[/i:a38c000dcb]
[en.wikipedia.org]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 22, 2007 04:45PM
Wondering why I have such a craving for maple syrup? Must be all these waffles..
A few days ago I watched the new BBC Scientology documentary - very worth seeing for anyone who is interested in cults. The journalist found the talking head for the cult showing up everywhere he went and although he refused to answer questions he had very definite ideas of what should be reported and no shortage of personal accusations to make against the reporter and his motives. The crew found themselves being followed and recorded a man showing up everywhere they went. When they spoke to Rick Ross (who has been documenting Scientology for 25 years) he spoke about how this was a "noisy investigation". The attempts at intimidation were comically obvious - but they were meant to be this way. The cult wanted to be sure that their critics knew that they were being watched and get the impression that they would act against them.
Cults really do not vary very much in their non-theological aspects just as there are distinct patterns of serial murder although the motives and psychosis of the individual killer varies.
I meant for SoI to know that I was on the Gold Coast - of course I did or I would not have mentioned it here where it is obvious they are monitoring. I wanted to see for myself what woud happen. Wanting to know the truth has made me give them so many chances because within me there was always the hope of being wrong or mistaken, just as Sulocana das when he wrote The Guru Business had the Holy Grail in his mind that the guru that had taken his wife and young child away from him could redeem himself by doing the right thing and returning them - that the dogma of chant and be happy could still be proven to be true in his case and he would gladly have admitted that he was wrong and returned to his faith. He was a believer right up until he was gunned down on the order of Kirtananda. I was a believer right up until the moment that I sat on the corner of Coolangatta outside the internet cafe and it was revealed to me that the person who I loved and trusted would stop at nothing to destroy my life.
I do not doubt that SoI are dangerous, and I do not want to be responsible for them hurting any person who wants to join in against them. Making promises based on people placing faith in my ability and if only they will do this and that is best left to Siddha. I dont need to recruit servants to wash my socks, I have all the dirty laundry that I can handle by myself. My friends understand that I have taken some time to myself to recover from the effects of the cult which I never did and still this does not stop mail coming saying thank you for helping me to leave or not get involved. If I was to retire as an aspiring cult activist tomorrow (which wont happen) then I have achieved something good in the world - ironically the desire to do so which led me to join SoI in the first place. Actually no one seems to question my motives or attack me personally besides Zelig the mysterious and his own motives are dubious and contributions ineffectual and contradictory. Diplomacy is for people who have contempt for others but still recognise them as being useful. It is dishonest and it is not a habit I am going to get into.
Science of Identity wont answer questions because they cant do it. There will be no answers and the battle lines have been drawn funnily not by me. I have even gone to the extent of phoning the number on the SoI websites and spoken to a woman who would not give her name, but she obviously knew who I was. She assurred me that it was her "top priority" to have someone get in touch with me and claimed that SoI were unaware that I had questions which I was prepared to give them the opportunity to answer. She implored me to listen to the lord in my heart and see that Jagad Guru is genuine and assurred me that criticising him in anyway would only lead to unhappiness. There was no response though and the call was about a month ago. That number is real however and international calling cards are very affordable, maybe anyone who wants to call will have a better result than I did.
A few days ago I watched the new BBC Scientology documentary - very worth seeing for anyone who is interested in cults. The journalist found the talking head for the cult showing up everywhere he went and although he refused to answer questions he had very definite ideas of what should be reported and no shortage of personal accusations to make against the reporter and his motives. The crew found themselves being followed and recorded a man showing up everywhere they went. When they spoke to Rick Ross (who has been documenting Scientology for 25 years) he spoke about how this was a "noisy investigation". The attempts at intimidation were comically obvious - but they were meant to be this way. The cult wanted to be sure that their critics knew that they were being watched and get the impression that they would act against them.
Cults really do not vary very much in their non-theological aspects just as there are distinct patterns of serial murder although the motives and psychosis of the individual killer varies.
I meant for SoI to know that I was on the Gold Coast - of course I did or I would not have mentioned it here where it is obvious they are monitoring. I wanted to see for myself what woud happen. Wanting to know the truth has made me give them so many chances because within me there was always the hope of being wrong or mistaken, just as Sulocana das when he wrote The Guru Business had the Holy Grail in his mind that the guru that had taken his wife and young child away from him could redeem himself by doing the right thing and returning them - that the dogma of chant and be happy could still be proven to be true in his case and he would gladly have admitted that he was wrong and returned to his faith. He was a believer right up until he was gunned down on the order of Kirtananda. I was a believer right up until the moment that I sat on the corner of Coolangatta outside the internet cafe and it was revealed to me that the person who I loved and trusted would stop at nothing to destroy my life.
I do not doubt that SoI are dangerous, and I do not want to be responsible for them hurting any person who wants to join in against them. Making promises based on people placing faith in my ability and if only they will do this and that is best left to Siddha. I dont need to recruit servants to wash my socks, I have all the dirty laundry that I can handle by myself. My friends understand that I have taken some time to myself to recover from the effects of the cult which I never did and still this does not stop mail coming saying thank you for helping me to leave or not get involved. If I was to retire as an aspiring cult activist tomorrow (which wont happen) then I have achieved something good in the world - ironically the desire to do so which led me to join SoI in the first place. Actually no one seems to question my motives or attack me personally besides Zelig the mysterious and his own motives are dubious and contributions ineffectual and contradictory. Diplomacy is for people who have contempt for others but still recognise them as being useful. It is dishonest and it is not a habit I am going to get into.
Science of Identity wont answer questions because they cant do it. There will be no answers and the battle lines have been drawn funnily not by me. I have even gone to the extent of phoning the number on the SoI websites and spoken to a woman who would not give her name, but she obviously knew who I was. She assurred me that it was her "top priority" to have someone get in touch with me and claimed that SoI were unaware that I had questions which I was prepared to give them the opportunity to answer. She implored me to listen to the lord in my heart and see that Jagad Guru is genuine and assurred me that criticising him in anyway would only lead to unhappiness. There was no response though and the call was about a month ago. That number is real however and international calling cards are very affordable, maybe anyone who wants to call will have a better result than I did.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
hoax108
()
Date: May 22, 2007 10:08PM
I just found this forum and started reading it last night. I've only made it up to page 22 as there was so much info and links to click on etc.
I had been a "serious" student of JG for about 5 years. I had begun to get a bad taste in my mouth and I have not had any involvement for about 2 years.
I still keep in touch with some members and I was still chanting on my beads here and there and I actually really enjoy hearing and chanting mantras.
I have to admit that much of the stuff I have read from former devotees is all true. I also admit that right now I feel a little nauseas and I need to vent.
My problem was not so much with JG himself (although I don't think I ever really accepted him as God's representative) but with the fanaticism and judgementalism of many of his followers.
SIL is definitely a religion with a bureaucracy and hierarchial structure. The meditation centers all have a person in charge who is usually a disciple and everyone answers to them.
The meditation center in my hometown is run by a disciple who is one of the angriest, manipulative, controlling people I have ever met.
I used to think it was just my problem. That I was so polluted and I needed to chant more to purify myself and engage in more service and I would begin to see things more clearly.
However, I began to realize and experience that others felt as I did about this person. That was gratifying. I left the group in my hometown as I began to see that I was attending gatherings and offerings due to fear and guilt and not out of love.
And yoga is about love. Yoga is not about feeling sick to your stomach when you have a message on your voice mail from your local yoga teacher just asking for you to return a call.
So the question is - what type of organization allows people like this to be in a position of authority?
Meanwhile, I am still interested in spiritual life and I have always had a strong attraction to Jesus Christ so I have returned to church and I am thinking about trading my chanting beads for rosary beads.
I can provide more information if need be but I prefer to remain anonymous. I really to need to come to terms with my experience and move on.
I had been a "serious" student of JG for about 5 years. I had begun to get a bad taste in my mouth and I have not had any involvement for about 2 years.
I still keep in touch with some members and I was still chanting on my beads here and there and I actually really enjoy hearing and chanting mantras.
I have to admit that much of the stuff I have read from former devotees is all true. I also admit that right now I feel a little nauseas and I need to vent.
My problem was not so much with JG himself (although I don't think I ever really accepted him as God's representative) but with the fanaticism and judgementalism of many of his followers.
SIL is definitely a religion with a bureaucracy and hierarchial structure. The meditation centers all have a person in charge who is usually a disciple and everyone answers to them.
The meditation center in my hometown is run by a disciple who is one of the angriest, manipulative, controlling people I have ever met.
I used to think it was just my problem. That I was so polluted and I needed to chant more to purify myself and engage in more service and I would begin to see things more clearly.
However, I began to realize and experience that others felt as I did about this person. That was gratifying. I left the group in my hometown as I began to see that I was attending gatherings and offerings due to fear and guilt and not out of love.
And yoga is about love. Yoga is not about feeling sick to your stomach when you have a message on your voice mail from your local yoga teacher just asking for you to return a call.
So the question is - what type of organization allows people like this to be in a position of authority?
Meanwhile, I am still interested in spiritual life and I have always had a strong attraction to Jesus Christ so I have returned to church and I am thinking about trading my chanting beads for rosary beads.
I can provide more information if need be but I prefer to remain anonymous. I really to need to come to terms with my experience and move on.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 23, 2007 02:16AM
[b:91c5041a0e]Richard Lowther [/b:91c5041a0e]of [b:91c5041a0e]Island Shots[/b:91c5041a0e] production company:
www.islandshots.com
Island Shots mentions all the following companies which shows they are all linked back to Chris Butler. Quite probably other companies mentioned on the site are Science of Identity linked.
Lowther contributed $4000 to [b:91c5041a0e]Mike Gabbard's[/b:91c5041a0e] (long-time disciple of Butler) campaign and designed the logo for [b:91c5041a0e]Healty Hawaii Coalition[/b:91c5041a0e]:
[www.healthyhawaiicoalition.com]
It is also mentioned that he worked on "Let's Talk Straight Hawaii", which was Gabbard's anti-homosexual propaganda radio show (1991).
Worked on "Kathy's Kitchen" ([b:91c5041a0e]Katyani[/b:91c5041a0e], ex-disciple of Butler from the Sai days) national PBS cooking show.
Created a corporate video for [b:91c5041a0e]National Claims Service, LLC[/b:91c5041a0e] of which David Muncie was the president ([b:91c5041a0e]Tusta Krishna das[/b:91c5041a0e] long-time Butler disciple)
Island Shots claims to have designed the following logos and other material for the businesses: [b:91c5041a0e]Freeswell studios [/b:91c5041a0e](Island shots in-house web design company) has the exact same portfolio.
www.freeswell.com/portfolio
[b:91c5041a0e]Rama's Massage[/b:91c5041a0e] in Hawaii
www.ramasmassage.com
[b:91c5041a0e]Rama Doyle[/b:91c5041a0e] (brother in-law of Radha Krishna das and son of Caru Gupta das and Vrindavan dasi. All butler disciples - Australian School of Meditation - parents originally disciples of ACB in NZ)
[img:91c5041a0e]http://www.ramasmassage.com/include/images/photos/rama.jpg[/img:91c5041a0e]
[b:91c5041a0e]Narottam Bishop[/b:91c5041a0e] (son science of Identity president's son? long time Butler disciple Jeannie Bishop)
[img:91c5041a0e]http://www.ramasmassage.com/include/images/photos/narottam.jpg[/img:91c5041a0e]
[b:91c5041a0e]Brandon Raynor's[/b:91c5041a0e] (Australian disciple of Butler) made-up organisation - International Natural Therapists Association
www.inta.com
[b:91c5041a0e]Noni Kahuna[/b:91c5041a0e] - although www.noni-nuna.com cannot be found
[hbe.ehawaii.gov]
Agents: Andre Kalata, Jason Lundy
Coming Soon:
Welcome to [b:91c5041a0e]Ground Up TV[/b:91c5041a0e] :
Time Base Productions Inc. Proudly Presents Ground Up TV. Philippines first premier Hip hop TV program dedicated to representing the strength and diversity of the Hip Hop culture and it's founding elements, DJing, Break Dancing, MC'ing, Aerosol Art and the Knowledge which holds these elements together. So stay tune for Ground Up Tv we will be coming out soon. Peace!
Myapce: [www.myspace.com]
Thank You,
-Ground Up Team
[www.grounduptv.com]
Domain name registered to Time Based Productions Inc.
Kalki (This is a devotee name) Jimenez
[www.timebaseproductions.com]
Timebase Productions team have Krishna names such as [b:91c5041a0e]Krishna dasi[/b:91c5041a0e] Jimenez, [b:91c5041a0e]Chandra[/b:91c5041a0e] Balagtas, [b:91c5041a0e]Keshav Tamayo[/b:91c5041a0e] (Tamyos are philippines family of Butler followers), [b:91c5041a0e]Rommel[/b:91c5041a0e] Manuel, [b:91c5041a0e]Janardan das[/b:91c5041a0e], [b:91c5041a0e]Harinam das[/b:91c5041a0e] Ochangco.
[www.timebaseproductions.com]
So Chris Butler's philippines "Chaitanya Mission" religious cult crew are now creating a hip-hop TV show.
"The Grand Master Hip-hop guru - Bai Zhong Yan"
Other Achievements:
[b:91c5041a0e]Sunset Studios[/b:91c5041a0e], Cottonwood Arizona (Ninjai Gang studios) ANYA ANTHONY, ANDRE TUMAHAI, PRUDENCE G TUMAHAI, LINSLEY RAYMOND BRIAN
[b:91c5041a0e]Summit Productions [/b:91c5041a0e]was registered to Healthy's, LLC in 1981. Agents: Mark Fergusson, Sunil Khemaney and Christina Moore.
----------------------------
Photo of Randall Paulson (Kala das) of Down to Earth - Natural Foods Stores in Hawaii. Professional surfer - posted and discussed on the following surfing forum January this year:
[img:91c5041a0e]http://www.surfline.com/images/coolpolice/Pipeline%20lesson%20learned%202.jpg[/img:91c5041a0e]
forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1132159&page=&fpart=&vc=1
He is the guy on the left punching the other surfer from behind :roll:
Article about the Hawaiian born surfer:
[www.surfermag.com]
www.islandshots.com
Island Shots mentions all the following companies which shows they are all linked back to Chris Butler. Quite probably other companies mentioned on the site are Science of Identity linked.
Lowther contributed $4000 to [b:91c5041a0e]Mike Gabbard's[/b:91c5041a0e] (long-time disciple of Butler) campaign and designed the logo for [b:91c5041a0e]Healty Hawaii Coalition[/b:91c5041a0e]:
[www.healthyhawaiicoalition.com]
It is also mentioned that he worked on "Let's Talk Straight Hawaii", which was Gabbard's anti-homosexual propaganda radio show (1991).
Worked on "Kathy's Kitchen" ([b:91c5041a0e]Katyani[/b:91c5041a0e], ex-disciple of Butler from the Sai days) national PBS cooking show.
Created a corporate video for [b:91c5041a0e]National Claims Service, LLC[/b:91c5041a0e] of which David Muncie was the president ([b:91c5041a0e]Tusta Krishna das[/b:91c5041a0e] long-time Butler disciple)
Island Shots claims to have designed the following logos and other material for the businesses: [b:91c5041a0e]Freeswell studios [/b:91c5041a0e](Island shots in-house web design company) has the exact same portfolio.
www.freeswell.com/portfolio
[b:91c5041a0e]Rama's Massage[/b:91c5041a0e] in Hawaii
www.ramasmassage.com
[b:91c5041a0e]Rama Doyle[/b:91c5041a0e] (brother in-law of Radha Krishna das and son of Caru Gupta das and Vrindavan dasi. All butler disciples - Australian School of Meditation - parents originally disciples of ACB in NZ)
[img:91c5041a0e]http://www.ramasmassage.com/include/images/photos/rama.jpg[/img:91c5041a0e]
[b:91c5041a0e]Narottam Bishop[/b:91c5041a0e] (son science of Identity president's son? long time Butler disciple Jeannie Bishop)
[img:91c5041a0e]http://www.ramasmassage.com/include/images/photos/narottam.jpg[/img:91c5041a0e]
[b:91c5041a0e]Brandon Raynor's[/b:91c5041a0e] (Australian disciple of Butler) made-up organisation - International Natural Therapists Association
www.inta.com
[b:91c5041a0e]Noni Kahuna[/b:91c5041a0e] - although www.noni-nuna.com cannot be found
[hbe.ehawaii.gov]
Agents: Andre Kalata, Jason Lundy
Coming Soon:
Welcome to [b:91c5041a0e]Ground Up TV[/b:91c5041a0e] :
Time Base Productions Inc. Proudly Presents Ground Up TV. Philippines first premier Hip hop TV program dedicated to representing the strength and diversity of the Hip Hop culture and it's founding elements, DJing, Break Dancing, MC'ing, Aerosol Art and the Knowledge which holds these elements together. So stay tune for Ground Up Tv we will be coming out soon. Peace!
Myapce: [www.myspace.com]
Thank You,
-Ground Up Team
[www.grounduptv.com]
Domain name registered to Time Based Productions Inc.
Kalki (This is a devotee name) Jimenez
[www.timebaseproductions.com]
Timebase Productions team have Krishna names such as [b:91c5041a0e]Krishna dasi[/b:91c5041a0e] Jimenez, [b:91c5041a0e]Chandra[/b:91c5041a0e] Balagtas, [b:91c5041a0e]Keshav Tamayo[/b:91c5041a0e] (Tamyos are philippines family of Butler followers), [b:91c5041a0e]Rommel[/b:91c5041a0e] Manuel, [b:91c5041a0e]Janardan das[/b:91c5041a0e], [b:91c5041a0e]Harinam das[/b:91c5041a0e] Ochangco.
[www.timebaseproductions.com]
So Chris Butler's philippines "Chaitanya Mission" religious cult crew are now creating a hip-hop TV show.
"The Grand Master Hip-hop guru - Bai Zhong Yan"
Other Achievements:
[b:91c5041a0e]Sunset Studios[/b:91c5041a0e], Cottonwood Arizona (Ninjai Gang studios) ANYA ANTHONY, ANDRE TUMAHAI, PRUDENCE G TUMAHAI, LINSLEY RAYMOND BRIAN
[b:91c5041a0e]Summit Productions [/b:91c5041a0e]was registered to Healthy's, LLC in 1981. Agents: Mark Fergusson, Sunil Khemaney and Christina Moore.
----------------------------
Photo of Randall Paulson (Kala das) of Down to Earth - Natural Foods Stores in Hawaii. Professional surfer - posted and discussed on the following surfing forum January this year:
[img:91c5041a0e]http://www.surfline.com/images/coolpolice/Pipeline%20lesson%20learned%202.jpg[/img:91c5041a0e]
forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1132159&page=&fpart=&vc=1
He is the guy on the left punching the other surfer from behind :roll:
Article about the Hawaiian born surfer:
[www.surfermag.com]
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