Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
freeatlast!
()
Date: February 27, 2007 06:36AM
nice web sight cara! things are really moving along now, keep up the good work!
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
emntk
()
Date: February 27, 2007 08:15AM
Well thanks Antarctic now that you've said your peice and you are not here to actually discuss anything specifically and just want to put a suggestion into people's minds that this is all made up well that is fine. Since you have stated that you have been reading for a couple of months you will notice that Cara and i have been doing a lot of research into SOI and these things do take time. What is motivating me is to not have people hurt like Cara and my brother were hurt by the cult and not some incomprehenible attempt to goad a practically innocent group of people with lies. RKd who is a prominent disciple on the Gold Coast actually admitted to using brainwashing and not being honest about the cult in their recruitment and threatening to take my brother's son away if he did obey orders. RKd also did not deny any of what wa said here.
If your post is a reaction to the fact that I have stated that noone in SoI has stepped forward to deny this information then this is a pretty lame excuse as you aren't denying anything you are just making a broad sweeping statement that people on this thread are liars. Who is playing the spitting game?
There is the Yoga Nidra which is used in many centres and actually Wai Lana's Yoga DVDs uses the same techniques that are taught in your cult and is shown in history with the Sai book and his Psychic sleep book. So where you are suggesting that there is no evidence for anything is highly
The guns was discussed on this forum before I had anything to do with it and I too had my experience with a request from Butler to possess guns which is not even legal to posses firearms without a permit in Australia since around the mid ninties a new law came into effect (a few years before the order).
As for his teachings yes I do like you want to provide evidence of his actual lectures which are recorded for distribution amongst followers. They were a lot easier to get a hold of but now they are closely gaurded from outsiders and even new members. So if you do have a desire to show evidence perhaps you yourself in your anonymous capability might like to make those lectures available to us. If like you say Butler does not teach the things that I have revealed from my personal experience then I surely will not find anything to use which will show to this whole thread that I am a liar. So if you would like to send me a catalogue of lectures that I may order a great deal of lectures then I will in the interest of truth never speak on the subject of SoI again.
This is your chance to prove that you are so highly interested in truth. So do we have a deal?
If your post is a reaction to the fact that I have stated that noone in SoI has stepped forward to deny this information then this is a pretty lame excuse as you aren't denying anything you are just making a broad sweeping statement that people on this thread are liars. Who is playing the spitting game?
There is the Yoga Nidra which is used in many centres and actually Wai Lana's Yoga DVDs uses the same techniques that are taught in your cult and is shown in history with the Sai book and his Psychic sleep book. So where you are suggesting that there is no evidence for anything is highly
The guns was discussed on this forum before I had anything to do with it and I too had my experience with a request from Butler to possess guns which is not even legal to posses firearms without a permit in Australia since around the mid ninties a new law came into effect (a few years before the order).
As for his teachings yes I do like you want to provide evidence of his actual lectures which are recorded for distribution amongst followers. They were a lot easier to get a hold of but now they are closely gaurded from outsiders and even new members. So if you do have a desire to show evidence perhaps you yourself in your anonymous capability might like to make those lectures available to us. If like you say Butler does not teach the things that I have revealed from my personal experience then I surely will not find anything to use which will show to this whole thread that I am a liar. So if you would like to send me a catalogue of lectures that I may order a great deal of lectures then I will in the interest of truth never speak on the subject of SoI again.
This is your chance to prove that you are so highly interested in truth. So do we have a deal?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: February 27, 2007 03:29PM
The new mantra for SoI??
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"[/color:1c05b0fedf]
:lol:
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"[/color:1c05b0fedf]
:lol:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
freeatlast!
()
Date: February 28, 2007 06:50AM
moderator, is there some reason why you didn't post my messages? I submitted them yesterday and since then others have posted.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
ezdoesit
()
Date: February 28, 2007 10:32AM
Quote
freeatlast!
moderator, is there some reason why you didn't post my messages? I submitted them yesterday and since then others have posted.
Just catching up. Sorry!
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: February 28, 2007 11:57AM
Freeatlast! Good to hear from you - and you can send PMs now that you have passed number ten.
Yes I had a nervous breakdown and went back to my home town too :wink: I think this has happened to a few of the posters here.
I remember "going crazy" being the topic of conversation a while back. It seems to be devotee code for they have stopped thinking of Jagad Guru in terms of anything else than to head for the hills before the disciples start handing out kool-aid.
Note that in accounts of leaving people invariably seem to want to get as far away as possible and don't ever come back for the casual class or to say hi to their friends. Even after a few months in a place, let alone a year or more you start to have some ties there, a home, maybe a job, some interests in the community, friends etc. You have made your life in this place. You have accessed this wonderful lifestyle that disciples are all bright eyed and gushing over the glory of and then just one day you just up and flee. It does seem like crazy behaviour - to anyone that can't (or won't) consider what this cult is all about.
It is strange that devotees rationalise (or I wonder comfort themselves) with the mental breakdown theory when JG says that a mental breakdown is a "gateway to spiritual life" - you have probably seen the booklet?
The police wouldn't have turned up unless someone called them and JGs reaction is very suspicious and a bit creepy.
What emntk was referring to was not that yoga nidra itself is despicable but that not telling people what it is and encouraging them to practice it without proper understanding of it and the risks that are involved is a despicable practice.
It is the intent that JG has had going back to his Sai days to make people more susceptible to his message. Eventhough as you point out there are benefits to meditation there are also risks and most of these are attributed to how it is taught. When we are talking about a person's consciousness and mental health I would say that most people would consider it careless if not a form of abuse to give someone for example medicine to cure their sickness but not tell them what dose they should take or that there are potentially serious risks involved when they know this but have made up their mind that the medicine is what the person needs.
As related by Danavir Goswami according to ACB when he learned that JG was teaching this in the temple in 1973 - “This is an adulteration, a contamination, it will ruin everything." [www.dandavats.com]
Deep Peace Meditation (What name do they give to it in California? Did they tell you what it was or did you recognise it from your past experiences?) is not a part of KC.
It is apparently "left handed tantra" wheras KC is "right handed tantra" I was just recently told. The gurus that teach Yoga Nidra to enlightenment are condemned by JG as impersonalists. Again this is not to sugguest that it has no value - just to point out another example that he is a hypocrite.
I have yet to find anyone being exposed to this in SoI besides new people. This is an enquiry to pursue further, but if it is the case as indicated it also strongly sugguests ulterior motives.
If JG was an enlightened soul and surrendered to his spiritual master as he claims to be surely he would teach real yoga and meditation rather than just creating his own versions as he has done with Deep Peace/Psychic Sleep, Gauranga Breathing and Jaya Yoga.
Thank-you. Without Ash and our benefactor Mr Z it would just be my words put up on a geocities (or a Xanga) until SoI chased it down again.
MAYA (Meditation and Yoga Awareness) that you will see on the site - but the link is not active yet - is a new project to give awareness of what different forms of meditation and yoga are and promote the ability of people in general to make an informed choice. I have seen many people come to ASM to learn and then see the alternate agenda and express feelings of being tricked. I believe that this need not happen and that these practices are worth more than to be associated with the likes of Chris Butler.
SoI is not the only cult that exploits meditation and yoga for recruitment purposes and I agree these are great and healthy practices that many people could benefit from. Falun Goong is a very scary example. There is a lot of information about them here in the database.
Quote
I guess one day she just packed up and left and then some police showed up at the center I don't know for what reason, some people were saying that she had a nervous breakdown or something and that she went back to her hometown, anyway after this happened uddhava was chastised by jagad guru and he made her take down all of his pictures in the temple room and everywhere.
Yes I had a nervous breakdown and went back to my home town too :wink: I think this has happened to a few of the posters here.
I remember "going crazy" being the topic of conversation a while back. It seems to be devotee code for they have stopped thinking of Jagad Guru in terms of anything else than to head for the hills before the disciples start handing out kool-aid.
Note that in accounts of leaving people invariably seem to want to get as far away as possible and don't ever come back for the casual class or to say hi to their friends. Even after a few months in a place, let alone a year or more you start to have some ties there, a home, maybe a job, some interests in the community, friends etc. You have made your life in this place. You have accessed this wonderful lifestyle that disciples are all bright eyed and gushing over the glory of and then just one day you just up and flee. It does seem like crazy behaviour - to anyone that can't (or won't) consider what this cult is all about.
It is strange that devotees rationalise (or I wonder comfort themselves) with the mental breakdown theory when JG says that a mental breakdown is a "gateway to spiritual life" - you have probably seen the booklet?
The police wouldn't have turned up unless someone called them and JGs reaction is very suspicious and a bit creepy.
Quote
I disagree with emntks theory that yoga nidra is a dispicaple practice
What emntk was referring to was not that yoga nidra itself is despicable but that not telling people what it is and encouraging them to practice it without proper understanding of it and the risks that are involved is a despicable practice.
Quote
By not telling people what yoga nidra is at any stage of their SOI membership or how it works and recommending that they practice it at least daily, makes it hugely dangerous on people's minds as it leads to permanent changes in a persons awareness and is an honestly an utterly dispicable practice.
It is the intent that JG has had going back to his Sai days to make people more susceptible to his message. Eventhough as you point out there are benefits to meditation there are also risks and most of these are attributed to how it is taught. When we are talking about a person's consciousness and mental health I would say that most people would consider it careless if not a form of abuse to give someone for example medicine to cure their sickness but not tell them what dose they should take or that there are potentially serious risks involved when they know this but have made up their mind that the medicine is what the person needs.
As related by Danavir Goswami according to ACB when he learned that JG was teaching this in the temple in 1973 - “This is an adulteration, a contamination, it will ruin everything." [www.dandavats.com]
Deep Peace Meditation (What name do they give to it in California? Did they tell you what it was or did you recognise it from your past experiences?) is not a part of KC.
It is apparently "left handed tantra" wheras KC is "right handed tantra" I was just recently told. The gurus that teach Yoga Nidra to enlightenment are condemned by JG as impersonalists. Again this is not to sugguest that it has no value - just to point out another example that he is a hypocrite.
I have yet to find anyone being exposed to this in SoI besides new people. This is an enquiry to pursue further, but if it is the case as indicated it also strongly sugguests ulterior motives.
If JG was an enlightened soul and surrendered to his spiritual master as he claims to be surely he would teach real yoga and meditation rather than just creating his own versions as he has done with Deep Peace/Psychic Sleep, Gauranga Breathing and Jaya Yoga.
Quote
nice web sight cara! things are really moving along now, keep up the good work!
Thank-you. Without Ash and our benefactor Mr Z it would just be my words put up on a geocities (or a Xanga) until SoI chased it down again.
MAYA (Meditation and Yoga Awareness) that you will see on the site - but the link is not active yet - is a new project to give awareness of what different forms of meditation and yoga are and promote the ability of people in general to make an informed choice. I have seen many people come to ASM to learn and then see the alternate agenda and express feelings of being tricked. I believe that this need not happen and that these practices are worth more than to be associated with the likes of Chris Butler.
SoI is not the only cult that exploits meditation and yoga for recruitment purposes and I agree these are great and healthy practices that many people could benefit from. Falun Goong is a very scary example. There is a lot of information about them here in the database.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
DharamRakshak
()
Date: February 28, 2007 12:19PM
First day I ignore you
Then laugh at you and hate you
Then they fight you, then you end
When the truth dies very bad things happen
They're being heartless at the end
I know with you that there is going to be balance
I'm taking as much I'm willing to take
Why do you think we should suffer in silence?
When a heart is broken there's nothing to break
-Tripping by Robbie Williams
CR you are doing a great job. I never heard of Robbie Williams until you posted links to his song here. I heard this one on the radio today and it reminded me of you.
I have seen issues like this with the police too, although I don't know any specific details. Of course it was the disciples fault and Jagad Guru hurried to distance himself as much as possible.
He did make a rather hasty retreat from Australia when he was last here, not even his personal service were aware that he was going as I recall. Much the same as I have heard in New Zealand in 1999, if memory serves me. As far as I know he has never been back there either.
May I sugguest that you might be able to seek out some contact with the police in the areas where Science of Identity is or has been active. This seems to have gained a lot of insight for the authors of Monkey on a Stick.
Then laugh at you and hate you
Then they fight you, then you end
When the truth dies very bad things happen
They're being heartless at the end
I know with you that there is going to be balance
I'm taking as much I'm willing to take
Why do you think we should suffer in silence?
When a heart is broken there's nothing to break
-Tripping by Robbie Williams
CR you are doing a great job. I never heard of Robbie Williams until you posted links to his song here. I heard this one on the radio today and it reminded me of you.
I have seen issues like this with the police too, although I don't know any specific details. Of course it was the disciples fault and Jagad Guru hurried to distance himself as much as possible.
He did make a rather hasty retreat from Australia when he was last here, not even his personal service were aware that he was going as I recall. Much the same as I have heard in New Zealand in 1999, if memory serves me. As far as I know he has never been back there either.
May I sugguest that you might be able to seek out some contact with the police in the areas where Science of Identity is or has been active. This seems to have gained a lot of insight for the authors of Monkey on a Stick.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
emntk
()
Date: February 28, 2007 04:18PM
Yes I don't think that yoga nidra is a dispicable practice. Deep breathing excercises are not the same thing either. By mentally relaxing each body part as the instructor is suggesting to you starting with the individual toes on the left foot and then right, balls of your feet, heels, backs of you feet etc., and yes they do go into almost every single body part imaginable, what this is doing as your right and left hemispheres of your brain communicate in this way you are putting your whole body into deep sleep as well as your subconscious mind and you get put into semi-conscious deep sleep.
This was never once explained to me. I never heard any of these teachers using the words 'yoga nidra', it was simply called breathing meditation that is used to bring about relaxtion. That is complete bullshit.
As you said yourself this makes people highly susceptable to indoctrination as while your subconscious mind is subdued and your conscious mind half asleep you are exposing your deepest consciousness to be altered which is where your deepest thoughts and feelings are stored. It is recommended by SoI that one practice this once a day for half an hour along with up to two to three hours a day of japa meditation (chanting on beads) in peaceful solitary surroundings. Add to that around one to two hours of kirtan a day at gaterings and offerings you are meditating for around 3-4 and a half hours of meditation [b:c302239efd]each day.[/b:c302239efd]
Yoga Nidra has been used in India for thousands of years particularly by those engaging in tantric yoga and those who wish to experience samadhi. This is because as you would probably be aware that India has it's own ancient scientific practices where they not ignorant to the reason of practicing this form of yoga. It is used to bring about a altered consciousness and state of awareness where you become less aware of your own individuality and surroundings (spacial recognition and independent thoughts) and you become more intune with the expansive nature of the mind and universe which is the consciousness that impersonalists are trying to achieve. These effect do not wear off immediately and gradually this will permanently alter your brain. Depending on how much japa you do it could occur very quickly.
This indoctrination also teaches that your own thoughts are untrustworthy and that you shouldn't engage in any indepedent thought that is without the approval of guru.
You are taught increasingly fearful ideas such as being reincarnated as a maggot or that the world is coming to an end or what can happen if you leave or become negatively influenced i.e. spiritual life is like walking along razor blade which at any moment you may slip and cut yourself or increasingly horrible descriptions of the hellish planet. By Skinner's experiments describing fearful situations like then and then asking a person to engage in relaxation methods desensitises a person to what their subconscious mind would normally find an uncomfortable situation.
So really what SoI is doing by not using professional instructors to explain what these practices are doing to you they are deadening people's individuality and their experiences in this world. You are not supposed to think about anything but that which guru is teaching you and any personal or material thoughts are condeming you and you are not supposed to feel any concern for material discomfort or happiness. You just become a dead, indoctrinated robot who can no longer associate with the rest of society because the ideas taught to you are so alien to common thinking that you cannot relate to the rest of society.
That is what I find completely dispicable about SoI.
This was never once explained to me. I never heard any of these teachers using the words 'yoga nidra', it was simply called breathing meditation that is used to bring about relaxtion. That is complete bullshit.
As you said yourself this makes people highly susceptable to indoctrination as while your subconscious mind is subdued and your conscious mind half asleep you are exposing your deepest consciousness to be altered which is where your deepest thoughts and feelings are stored. It is recommended by SoI that one practice this once a day for half an hour along with up to two to three hours a day of japa meditation (chanting on beads) in peaceful solitary surroundings. Add to that around one to two hours of kirtan a day at gaterings and offerings you are meditating for around 3-4 and a half hours of meditation [b:c302239efd]each day.[/b:c302239efd]
Yoga Nidra has been used in India for thousands of years particularly by those engaging in tantric yoga and those who wish to experience samadhi. This is because as you would probably be aware that India has it's own ancient scientific practices where they not ignorant to the reason of practicing this form of yoga. It is used to bring about a altered consciousness and state of awareness where you become less aware of your own individuality and surroundings (spacial recognition and independent thoughts) and you become more intune with the expansive nature of the mind and universe which is the consciousness that impersonalists are trying to achieve. These effect do not wear off immediately and gradually this will permanently alter your brain. Depending on how much japa you do it could occur very quickly.
This indoctrination also teaches that your own thoughts are untrustworthy and that you shouldn't engage in any indepedent thought that is without the approval of guru.
You are taught increasingly fearful ideas such as being reincarnated as a maggot or that the world is coming to an end or what can happen if you leave or become negatively influenced i.e. spiritual life is like walking along razor blade which at any moment you may slip and cut yourself or increasingly horrible descriptions of the hellish planet. By Skinner's experiments describing fearful situations like then and then asking a person to engage in relaxation methods desensitises a person to what their subconscious mind would normally find an uncomfortable situation.
So really what SoI is doing by not using professional instructors to explain what these practices are doing to you they are deadening people's individuality and their experiences in this world. You are not supposed to think about anything but that which guru is teaching you and any personal or material thoughts are condeming you and you are not supposed to feel any concern for material discomfort or happiness. You just become a dead, indoctrinated robot who can no longer associate with the rest of society because the ideas taught to you are so alien to common thinking that you cannot relate to the rest of society.
That is what I find completely dispicable about SoI.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
suzi
()
Date: March 01, 2007 10:21AM
[
Yes I had a nervous breakdown and went back to my home town too :wink: I think this has happened to a few of the posters here.
How could JG have found that out? Are all the disciples watched by someone or would the center have had to reported this? Why would one devotee so important that this uddavva would have been chastised by the big cheese himself?
Quote
I guess one day she just packed up and left and then some police showed up at the center I don't know for what reason, some people were saying that she had a nervous breakdown or something and that she went back to her hometown, anyway after this happened uddhava was chastised by jagad guru and he made her take down all of his pictures in the temple room and everywhere.
Yes I had a nervous breakdown and went back to my home town too :wink: I think this has happened to a few of the posters here.
police wouldn't have turned up unless someone called them and JGs reaction is very suspicious and a bit creepy.Quote
The
How could JG have found that out? Are all the disciples watched by someone or would the center have had to reported this? Why would one devotee so important that this uddavva would have been chastised by the big cheese himself?
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