Hi Antartic,

My name is Cara James and I am in Tweed Heads on the Gold Coast Australia at the moment.

Sorry I didn't catch your name or where you are from.

I guess you were too upset in the months that you have been reading to answer all the questions that have been asked on this thread. There must be about two hundred here by now. Nevermind I will gather them up and put them in a nice orderly list on my new website where you will be most welcome to contribute.

So everything is lies? I could have sworn I was kicked out of my house on the order of the disciples and that it took someone that had recently telling me that he loved me and begging me to stay turning on me overnight for no reason before I realised what Science of Identity really is. I remember him telling me that I couldn't understand and that there was nothing that could be done because it was "Srila Prabhupad's direction" I know that there was money taken in my name for a fine. Just the other day, Valentine's Day I had a guy come by where I am living and threaten me and he named a disciple and boasted that he was a "Haribol" in several text messages to me. I still have them with his number on them. Too weird. :?

So I am not blacklisted then? Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa wouldn't mind accepting me as a disciple then?

I read in the Scripture that a genuine Spiritual Master accepts [b:d96acfe435]everyone[/b:d96acfe435] and forgives everyone, only the most fallen it says - I'm sure you must have read that. Chaitanya certainly didn't discriminate. Wow what a screw up on my behalf - imagining a whole going on 3 years of my life :o Lucky that Jagad Guru is so merciful and forgiving huh?

Yes I would like to be a disciple please.

This is the second time that I have made this request, but no disciple of twenty years admitted to be reading then. I am sure you know how to get the message to Siddhaswarupananda for me. I look forward to your response thank-you.

I don't mind working for no money (you can call up Firm-n-Fold in Brisbane for a reference on this) I have read all of Srimad Bhagavatam and I have really strong teeth so I can just keep on chewing maha toenails until I am all pure. :D

I'll go for the Lord in the Heart, following Scripture and what the Spiritual Master says. If Jagad Guru doesn't have a black list and accepts my humble request then I will know for sure he is the real deal! It's great how the Vedas are so specific so there is no need for confusion :wink:

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antarctic
... Anyway, I couldn’t hold my tongue any longer. By the way, if anybody believes the countless lies and distortions of truth which have been posted, I have some land in the Antarctic which you may be interested in buying.

So now we know where they send the blacklisted people after they kick them off Hawaii!

This just goes to show how these people think. If someone criticizes their leader, they send him off to Siberia... somewhat reminiscent of a Stalinistic regime.

:?:

Antartic,

Another person coming on this thread offering a vague statement about misinformation. How original.

Well let's get specific then.

So in those twenty years you've been a student/disciple of Jagad Guru you haven't heard your guru yelling at people and making a complete mockery of them in front of a large croud of people? Outside of his tv lectures where he needs to be on his best behavior (he is so even tempered when the cameras are rolling - funny that) I haven't heard a person ask him a question yet where he didn't go out of his way to make a complete fool of that person. There was the guy on the Gold Coast who was dying of cancer with a few weeks to live. I'll admit Butler had toned down the arrogance and temper just a little bit to be gentle in this case while he was explaining to this near death guy how to go off into the wilderness and starve and dehydrate himself to death (the way the sanyassis do it). The guy was half senile and didn't last more than a few weeks after the lecture anyway.

So Antartic I welcome you to this thread and would like to see just how much of what is said on this thread is lies to you. If you don't like the above question then we can discuss the utterly vulgar remarks he makes about who he terms as f*****s and the disguting sexual acts he describes and the foul language he uses all in front of women, children and young people.

How about the lie of "meditation centres"? Is that misinformation to say instead of being open and let the public know SOI practice Bhakti the substitution of the word 'meditation' is a much more devious way to get people into the cult. Then they use Yoga Nidra which is a technique from India of actually 'altering' your deepest consciousness with lasting results on first time students. By not telling people what yoga nidra is at any stage of their SOI membership or how it works and recommending that they practice it at least daily, makes it hugely dangerous on people's minds as it leads to permanent changes in a persons awareness and is an honestly an utterly dispicable practice.

What about Jagad Guru's political, business and environmental contributions? Or his lavish lifestyle, personal slaves and private jet? In his lectures so many times he has claimed any help you can offer to people other than giving people God is not going to help them. This world is temporary, these bodies are temporary and time is short so teaching people to love Krishna is the only endeavour that is of utmost importance. This he does not follow himself as one of his main concerns is in the solutions to the temporary problems of this world. So his mockery of those who have material concerns is completely hypocritical.

What is your opinion on the armageddon predictions he has made? I described in a post a few pages back what I read in the fax from head office and it described a chaotic destruction of the modern world that would all happen at the turn of this century. There was a request for people to form communes and store up on survivalist gear and weapons. Cara had this same experience recently with the Bird Flu virus prediction. Now Butler claims to be a direct link to God. How is it that God through his representative is giving us armageddon predictions that are not even remotely true? This has been occuring with Butler for the last 35 years at least. Can you defend your Guru's paranoia that the end of the world is always just around the corner?

Let's ask the best question: Did you also hear him say that it is ok for followers to commit suicide when their guru leaves his body (ie dies in devotee speak) if they are so attached to him?

I have heard the lectures and I do know a lot of what goes on in SOI. So let's see how much you are aware of what goes on and how willing you are to be honest and provide truthful information. RKd was good on this thread as he wasn't dishonest about lying to people although he wasn't great at addressing a lot of the questions posed to him. I highly anticipate your reponse.

[scienceofidentity.myfastforum.org]

Antartic why was this site put up and then abandoned at the first challenge?
If you are not in a cult why not just come out in the open and talk about the SOI. If you have nothing to hide why is the SOI so secretive? If you people are so good and honest why does Mike Gabbard lie about his connection to the SOI and Mr. Butler?. Keeping information from the public and going out of the way to lie is the symptoms of one in a cult. If you are not a cult member convince us otherwise. If you do not accept the challenge here we must assume most if not all the allegations are true and you have no defense therefore you do not address the issues.

Please don't freeze up on us now.

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freeatlast!
I posted here a month ago but didn’t follow up on my info, the reason being that I still care deeply for the people in Sacramento(Uddhava dasi +). They took me in off the street, when I was addicted to alcohol and going nowhere, they took me into there home and gave me a chance at fixing my life, I don’t follow chris butler anymore, I know that he is a bad guru, he is misleading and way too secretive and tells his desciples to sleep with pistols under there pillow, I don’t doubt caras story of child abuse and brainwashing ,I think she is doing the right thing and I give her props for standing up to these people. Cris Butler takes people who are looking for god and exploits them, he is probably just a sad old man who got caught up in a world of power, he figured out that he can get what ever he wants just by telling people what they want to hear. But the bottom line for me is that when I was down and out and bumming on the streets, smoking meth and drinking myself to death, they took me in. When I was living at the Sac center, they treated me with more respect and understanding and compassion then anyone else in my entire life, and I am forever in dept to them. If any devotees from Sac are watching, I love you all so much but I can’t fallow this man, you know I have good reason not to trust him, and I think that you should start questioning his “mission”. Please, just open your mind to the possibilty that your entire life of devotion could be misplaced. I was only involved for 2 years and when I finally accepted this it was emotionally shattering, I can’t even describe the pain I felt, praying 8 hours a day with all of my heart and being, crying in my room because I knew it wasn’t true, because my spiritual master was just a salesman on TV.
Cara, you and you sister are awesome and you helped me in more ways then you’ll ever know, but not all devotees of butler are evil and melicious, some of them are the most beautiful kind hearted people you could ever imagine, I know you know this, that’s why it’s so painful, I’ve been watching this thread almost everyday and I think you and your sister and rama are probably the only ones worth reading, you’ve felt the sting of believing in a false guru, you said that all you wanted was to be pleasing, then I guess like me you realized that with butler this is impossible. I haven’t picked up my beads once since I left, I haven’t looked at my pictures of krsna but can’t bring myself to throw them away, I’ve been so fucked up in the head and I don’t know what to do, I love these people but I hate there guru.

What was it that helped you see that CB was not what the SOI/ Sac. meditation center wants you to believe he is? Did you have to follow him to stay there?

I’m not going to get into spitting contest with people who are obviously not interested in truth. Besides, since over 50% of the stuff that’s on here is outright lies and 30% is distortions and misrepresentation of fact, it’s practically impossible to deal with it. I’d feel like a person trying to empty a cesspool with a teaspoon. I don’t have the time. I’m simply letting people know that unless there’s proof behind what they’re reading they shouldn’t accept it as truth. It’s simple. After all, the purpose of this so-called anti-cult website is supposed to be dedicated to encouraging people to think and demand facts and evidence and not just blindly accept the claims of any particular teacher, be it Chris Butler or the people posting on this website. Nobody should be a blind follower of anybody, including the people posting on this website and that’s the only point I’m making and that’s all I got to say about it. If you want to blindly follow the people who are posting all this nonsense about Chris Butler, as I say, you may want to buy some land in Siberia.

Another one bites the dust :roll:

Note that they can work out specific statistics [/color:68226cca51]of how much is wrong and lies but can't state one example. Wow aren't you impressed everyone - ready to pack up and go home? :lol:

So Chris Butler holds a grudge and maintains a blacklist - we knew that, I just think it is the quickest and easiest question to ask to prove that he doesn't follow Chaitanya's example.

Erm.. wasn't it Antartica before? Is this one of those SoI credit card scams where we are asked to invest in some bogus project and then have to write to Chris Butler to get our money back?

You're gonna really hate this then.

[b:68226cca51]Thanks to a hugely generous donation in support of free speech and exposing the cult of Science of Identity we now have a website.

www.chriskcon.com[/size:68226cca51]

At the moment we are still building it and as always researching and writing but you are welcome to drop by and check it out as the first days of the first ever website dedicated to the Science of Identity cult yay :D [/b:68226cca51] [/color:68226cca51]

no you don't have to follow anyone to stay there and it's a fine place for someone to go take some hatha yoga classes and do some gardening and have a little retreat, no one is forced into anything, the real agenda ofcourse is to expose people to jagad gurus teachings however.
suzi I can't send private messages but no I do not recall anyone being forced to leave, something strange though seemed to be happening when I first arrived, apperently there was a student who was very dedicated and she was working as uddhavas secretary in the med center office, she left right before I got there but from what I here she was very devoted and uddhava was pretty attached to her, I guess one day she just packed up and left and then some police showed up at the center I don't know for what reason, some people were saying that she had a nervous breakdown or something and that she went back to her hometown, anyway after this happened uddhava was chastised by jagad guru and he made her take down all of his pictures in the temple room and everywhere. A few weeks later she was aloud to put them back up.

I disagree with emntks theory that yoga nidra is a dispicaple practice, I know that at the med centers they use it in conjuction with chanting the holy names which could be seen as a brainwashing technique, putting a person in a state of deep relaxation could deffinately make them way more open to indoctrination, but I had practised this exercise before joining the cult as my younger sister is a hatha yoga instructor, this exercise along with many other deep breething and relaxation techniques from the hatha tradition can be very beneficial(if performed right) for people with nervous or chronic stress disorders and any medical experts will tell you the same thing. Deep breething in particular when being taught by a professional instructure is so helpful for many illnesses and I hear that many clinics for cancer treatment are now using meditation and visualization techniques that come straight from the yoga tradition.

I am thinking of writing about all my experiences at Lotus Garden and Dharma farms, but you guys will have to bear with me because it's hard to find the time since I am working a real job now and actually supporting myself for once, Ido have alot to say and I feel like I have to get it all out.