Gaudiya,

It was obvious that you were GM and you can't come on to cult forum preaching your cult (after we agreed that your guru was not to be mentioned) and then you go on to criticise Cara's work still expecting that your guru is above criticism. It is by your logic only that Bhatisiddhanta is false. I wonder if your guru was Tirtha Maharaj and then I would not be suprised that you had not heard of this poisoning.


"Then if you listen to the tapes clearly, Srila Prabhupada also speaks that His Spiritual Master (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada) was poisoned by His disciples also. (This was the first time I had ever heard this, and it was from Srila Prabhupada)."

[www.vnn.org]

The tapes refered to here were well transcribed and checked by three different translators. ACB mentioned his guru's poisoning several times over a few years and the corruption that his god brothers were involved in.


"Tirtha Maharaja tried poisoning his guru Bhaktisiddhanta a couple of times, but Bhaktisiddhanta made it to Lalita Prasad who saved him. Finally, he was poisoned and locked in his room so he couldn't go for help. It was the kind of poison known as a "Russian heart attack." He was taken from Calcutta to Mayapur for cremation and burial to avoid an autopsy. A couple of unsuccessful attempts were made on Lalita Prasad's life also."

[agt-gems.com]


"In 1942, after the disappearance of his Gurudeva, Srila Sarasvati Prabhupada, and the breakup of the Gaudiya-matha into two factions, Vana Maharaj voted for Srila B.V. Tirtha Maharaj to be the next Acarya, and (it is known) that he spent one month fasting on a raft in the middle of the Ganga to atone for any unresolved misunderstand with his great spiritual master, Srila Sarasvati Prabhupada."

[mitglied.lycos.de]


"So why would these deviated people be listed by Narayana Maharaja as his idea of acharyas? Narayana Maharaja also knows the history, that Tirtha Maharaja is considered by most to be like ISKCON's Tamal for the Gaudiya Matha. He was not trusted. He was disliked. He was even feared and hated. And some suspect him of "giving injections" of maybe poison to Srila Saraswati Thakura and so on."

[www.gaudiyadiscussions.com]


"He was involved and supportive of BSS's work with GM until Tirtha Maharaja became the overall manager. He saved his brother twice when he was poisoned by his disciple. The last time, he was locked in a room so that he could not go to his brother. They also tried to poison Lalita Prasad a couple of times unsuccessfully."


[stevebohlert.com]

"Tirtha Maharaja tried poisoning his guru Bhaktisiddhanta a couple of times, but Bhaktisiddhanta made it to Lalita Prasad who saved him. Finally, he was poisoned and locked in his room so he couldn't go for help. It was the kind of poison known as a "Russian heart attack." He was taken from Calcutta to Mayapur for cremation and burial to avoid an autopsy. A couple of unsuccessful attempts were made on Lalita Prasad's life also."


This is also mentioned on various Gaudiya forums and you will notice that there is not widespread protest to the suggestion that he was poisoned.

So Gaudiya Math we have enough to deal with exposing Siddha and none of you *appear* to object to this practice. So please if you are not here to assist in the topic of this thread and only desire to preach your cult and deride Cara's work then leave it alone. Otherwise you are merely trolls intentionally or unintentionally.

------------------

Disappearing act... Cara mentioned that the family info about Richard Windham Bellord and his wife Wai and his parents has mysteriously vanished from the two links she provided on this thread. I also checked and only her daughter Satya remains. That is SOI's method. Don't disagree with the information let's just make it dissapear.

:( Ay, Carumba! Poisoning seems to be the tradition in this cult!

Very, spiritual... very spiritual, indeed![/color:79a519daa3]

:(

There really is little point of arguing with SOI or any other group on a philosophical level as this is not what is keeping members in SOI. Like with GM, ISKCON and christian groups alike when a member behaves in an irreligious manner the cult's practice is to simply cover-up the offending information as if it never existed. Once there is cover-ups future criminal behaviors are acceptable as members then know that the group will do it's best to protect this information.

The eleven bogus gurus for one were accepted as successors based on a fraudulent document. So any actions after this we know are anti-ISKCON's beliefs. Much of the illegal, immoral or anti-ISKCON behaviors you cannot even gain access to now. The poisoning issue was argued by a multitude individuals so this controvesial information is easily accessible but anything else is swept under the rug.

The members don't consider this forum an authority on anything so they turn to the groups PR who analyse the data thoroughly and offer an alternative minimisation of the truth which gives members a reasonable argument against those who disagree.

Like Maui stated that most of the corruption occured after ACB passed away. The child abuse however started in 72, at least, 5 years before he passed away. When he did become aware of it he tried to hide this fact. Dallas gurukuli was closed down by state authorities in 1976 and children began being sent to the new India international gurukuli school as it would be less of problem there. There is still guys like this in the gurukuli schools there today.

The drug thing in Laguna where Bhaktivedanta's disciple Ramesvara was receiving drug money. Now Maui would have us believe that these guys were not members of Iskcon. They were all ex-member dealers simply making *drug money donations* out of the goodness of their hearts. I mean they must have been ex-members as regular drug dealers wouldn't care about ISKCON and ISKCON members would surely never engage in behaviors such as these. Of course there was no corruption in ISKCON. Oh.. except after ACB left and that was due to their guru not being around. You have got to be kidding. It is very difficult to obtain any information regarding this time and what occured. But thanks to Maui's loyalty to his PR department we now know the definative truth. I can't really prove him wrong (well not yet) but logically it simply makes no sense. Drug dealers simply giving away large amounts of money.

Hide the truth and try to shut us up with your bogus cover ups and that will not disable our motivation. Of course Siddha has been hoping on this and now he is deleting himself from the internet. He has learnt well. Who can find out anything about the guy. That is ok we will keep digging and soon Rick Ross Cult Awareness Forum wil be the 'first and foremost authority' on Siddhaswarupananda and newbies won't be able to go to you guys for info - "Are you asking questions?!? No asking questions!!" - So they will come here.

At first there were folks defending Siddha until the evidence of him being a possibly psychotically paranoid, abusive cult leader became overwhelming. This followed with defences of ACB which have disappeared due to much evidence of extreme corruption in his group and now a GM follower defending their faith. Not that anyone was even talking about GM. But we will dig there if you plan to derail this thread.

I don't doubt that Gaudiya is attacking the source of the information and offering his own anecdotal evidence of an event that took place 80 years ago. Who publishes stuff on Siddha's group or ISKCON. Very few and Iskcon has numerous law suits and files against them. The bulk of information available is of those who were members and their information is anecdotal. But we can easily defeat those arguments as they are simply disgruntled followers right?

Same with the Christians. Don't cover up everything with lies and forum threads like this wouldn't need to exist. If someone in your group is behaving badly throw them out and don't pretend it never happened and you will appear like honest decent folk who actually care about your organisation and your God. Don't just keep them around because they have certain connections or material value.

It takes people like Cara to have the courage to expose organisations like SOI and GM to come in and cause a disturbance. Is it any wonder since GM has the most involvement in the WVA organisation? Might I remind you that Tusta K das was the press secretary for that organisation and Acharya was the secretary.

This meant that Siddha had the controlling say on representing the Vaisnavas of the world. Anyone who disagreed with Siddha's press releases were directed to form their own statement and not claim to be representing the WVA. Of course there was a complaints resolution Gaudiya Math contact in India Srila Bhakti Vicar Yajavara Maharaja (disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati). But who gave Siddha's group this power in the first place? ISKCON is dismally under-represented. ISKCON sweden and the Manager of ISKCON TV and a few other members. How many? It does not say but multiple GM temples were represented. So what is GM's connection to Siddha?

I find the Gaudiya Math members capable of a conversation if they were not criticising this thread. Unlike RKd who could barely answer a single question directed towards him and even that he stated took and entire sleepless night to contemplate and compose. Possibly Gauranga breathing brainwashing effects as he does give meditation classes regularly which you will see printed advertising evidence of in one of Cara's upcoming blog entries. 'Deep peace meditation' they call it. Reading other Gaudiya Math material I have found members to be intelligent and respectful. But stay off this thread if you wish to do harm to it as by the information I've seen of your group I am aware that there is dirt in your closet also and if you agree to that I won't have to go digging through it. It's not even relevant to this thread anyway.

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just-googling
:( Ay, Carumba! Poisoning seems to be the tradition in this cult!

Very, spiritual... very spiritual, indeed![/color:76b6740f72]

:(

It's terrible isn't it? ACB spoke often about his God-brothers being murderous and towards the end of his life in particular referred to his own spiritual master being poisoned.

When one is caught up in worshipping a man as though they are God it is not a huge leap (from a fanatical point of view) to come to the conclusion - if I can kill him then I become God. Siddha certainly has historical precedent for his paranoia believing as he does that he is the real deal. :roll:

There seems to me to be a lack of distinction between spiritual master, religion and God. I can't recall anyone here criticising God personally, this discussion has been about various aspects of philosophy (which as Gaudiya pointed out also depends on translation) and aspects of cults within the Vaishnava tradition - which is hardly an endictmet of Vaishnavism in general. There are too many fractions nowadays to make any sort of general statement about Vaishnavism really.

The situation is starting to resemble the Christian traditions with all their break away evangelical preachers and charismatic churches.

RR has often been accussed of being both an atheist and a fanatic in his own forum and elsewhere on the net as have most other people that act against cults. It is an easy point of attack for cults to say that these are people that simply cannot respects other's rights to hold beliefs, but it is simply not true.

I will say that two Krishna fractions (unrelated to Gaudiya's) have recently offerred us assistance in exposing Siddha in exchange for the ommission of information about links to their own organisations and gurus. Now one can hardly receive the truth when they are satisfied to take only a part of it can they? I have lost a few independent sources of information for not wanting to promote certain views (and remember I don't even have a big serious website or any books yet) so really what is going on here?

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just-googling
:arrow: Note that George Bush is losing popularity in the USA - down to 33% - the majority of the populaton are [b:e21e1feeb7]not[/b:e21e1feeb7] supporting his war in Iraq any more. I wonder what J. Guru thinks of Hillary Clinton? she wants to put a stop to the war! :lol:

What he 'thinks' is probably that her husband should smack her around a bit to put her in line and that she should be at home in her kitchen :roll:

Maybe he could send her some maha-toenails to purify her political agenda or send Brandon Raynor to offer his services as her massage therapist and try to instigate a sex scandal :lol:

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cultreporter
..... The situation is starting to resemble the Christian traditions with all their break away evangelical preachers and charismatic churches.

Nonetheless, despite all the crap that goes on in the name of Christianity, it's unheard of to have, say, the bishop poison the archbishop so that he could take over his position! I think this poisoning business mostly has its origins in India (where there are no autopsies performed!)...

The tradition in India is one of extreme poverty and maybe some people who will do ANYTHING to get out of a poverty stricken condition... Poisoning the head honcho so you could get his position and lead a life of luxury (instead of laboring in the fields for a few grains of rice, and generally going hungry) could seem like a viable option in this scenario...

Thus, this Eastern type religion starts to look like more and more like a CULT... people worshiping one man as God... people painting their faces like Zulus on the warpath... people dancing fanatically and faking ecstacy!

:arrow: It all makes perfect sense,
Expressed in Dollars and Cents,
Pounds, Shillings and Pence...
Can't you see, it all makes perfect sense[/color:b4e41cb224].

Roger Waters[/size:b4e41cb224]

:wink:

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just-googling
..no autopsies

Good point. The tradition is also for cremation so there would be no remains to exhume later - arsenic poisoning as cause of death can actually be proven by modern science many years after the fact. In India I imagine that the funeral rites would be carried out quickly also on account of the hot climate.

To complicate matters a little further in the West in the modern world hospitals have policies for dealing with the death of someone in a religously sensitive way. There are many religions which are very sensitive about autopsies being carried out in accordance with their beliefs and as such the hospitals are reluctant to proceed unless it is absolutely neccessary, such as if there is suspicious circumstances.

Regarding ACB an old man who was not in the best of health (he had at least one non disputed heart attack, some accounts claim as many as three) dying is hardly suspicious and arsenic poisoning is notoriously difficult to detect in it's symptoms. I am sure the authorities would not want to desecrate the remains of such a revered person by a speculative autopsy even if there was reasons to believe at the time that he was murdered.

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Thus, this Eastern type religion starts to look like more and more like a CULT... people worshiping one man as God... people painting their faces like Zulus on the warpath... people dancing fanatically and faking ecstacy!

In trying to understand Siddha's cult fully there is certainly a lot of history to be taken into account. The practices of ISKCON are the blue print for brain washing. To look at any summary of the practice : isolation, applying ritual to every aspect of life ie - sleep, eating, dress, following a strict schedule, keeping busy so there is not time to think, meditation, chanting...

ACB taught that there was no other process required for going to Krishna than Bhakti Yoga, (devotional service) and particularly the sankirtan (chanting) movement as propogated by Lord Caitanya, however he insisted on rituals and applying traditions of India in the West. Head shaving, dhotis, dandas (a stick, to negotiate treacherous footing or maybe if it was neccessary to kill a snake is a practical consideration trekking about India, but hardly required in 60s San Francisco), getting up at 4am to chant japa, the position and treatment of women and children etc. with the inference that all these rituals made one more spiritual.

KC has always claimed to be distinct from Hinduism, so the question is where are these 'traditions' derived from? They are not solely from scripture because there is so much that is in Srimad Bhagavatam that points towards it being acceptable to worship the 'demigods' as they do in Hinduism. Until Caitanya came along 500 years ago - which actually makes KC a new religion and not the ancient traditions that it claims - there was little emphasis on Krishna as the supreme.

Krishna worship is apparently the dominant following in India, followed closely by Shivites, (worshipping Shiva) who in KC is seen in a somewhat negative light since he is set to bring about the end of existence. Even in the West ISKCON has taken to placing deities and images of Hanumann and Ganesha as a concession to many of their followers being Indians of a Hindu background, eventhough this is against the practices set down by their founder :?

Caitaya is not the figure in India that those who preach KC would have us believe and has always been a somewhat obscure and maligned system of belief which has had most of it's following in the West, mainly on account of ACB.

We have covered the trend of ex-followers of SOI going crazy - there seems to be another disturbing trend among ex-employees of their businesses turning into thieves.

In the Down to Earth discrimination case in 2000 it was alledged that some of the aggrieved parties had been short changing the tills. There was a story about a manager of DTE from way back who was gay and made a pass at Siddha ending up embezzling quite a huge sum.

There was a lot of talk about this on the Gold Coast, ex employees of Vege Chips and Firm-n-Fold having embezzled a fortune. When I was there there was specualtion that the guy from the Sydney store might be gay. A month or two later he has apparently stolen thousands of dollars. Same with the couple that used to run the Brisbane shop who had a habit of telling people that the business was owned by Hare Krishnas. (That is a HUGE no. I used to wear a strand of 108 japa wrapped around my wrist, but was never allowed to in the shop. Siddha's book Gems of Wisdom is in the fnf catalogue as a meditation booklet but never in stock because it wouldn't do for people to look at it and ask about who he was)

Were any of these people ever taken to court? How hard could it be to prove embezzlement when there are no other employees? Am I too skeptical that someone who can build a massage empire in ten years starting out in his shed :roll: lacks the business acumen to hire reliable staff? Devotees don't question this since this is the sort of thing that Karmis do right?

One of the threats made against me in trying to implicate me with a criminal record was that I could be set up as stealing from FnF - not a great plan since I was never officially (or legally) an employee.

I would be willing to bet that former employees would have a lot to tell and reveal another pattern of abuse perpetrated by SOI.

Great find Cara!!!!!!
The YouTube 'How to start your own cult' is too fabulous!!!!!!

It's on today's blog:
[www.xanga.com]

Have you seen this Rick? You should feature it on this website -- if it's not already here!

Lady, I tip my hat and bow.

This is a definition from Brittanica Concise Encyclopedia.

Worship of Vishnu as the supreme deity, as well as of his incarnations, mainly Rama and Krishna.

Vaishnavism is one of the major forms of modern Hinduism, along with Shaivism and Shaktism, and is probably the most popular and most widely practiced. Characterized by an emphasis on bhakti, its goal is to escape from the cycle of birth and death in order to enjoy the presence of Vishnu. The philosophical schools into which Vaishnavism is divided are distinguished by their varying interpretations of the relationship between individual souls and God, and include aspects of monism and dualism

Bhagavata - Member of the earliest recorded Hindu sect, representing the beginnings of theistic, devotional worship and modern Vaishnavism.

Shaivism - One of three main forms of modern Hinduism, centred on the worship of Shiva.

Shaktism - Worship of the supreme Hindu goddess Shakti.

Visistadvaita - Principal school of Vedanta.

Radha - In Hindu mythology, mistress of the god Krishna when he lived among the cowherds of Vrndavana.

Hinduism - Vaishnavism is the worship of Vishnu and his various incarnations. During a long and complex development from Vedic times, there arose many Vaishnava groups with differing beliefs and aims. Some of the major Vaishnava groups include the Srivaisnavas and Dvaitins ("philosophical or religious dualists") of South India, the followers of the teachings of Vallabha in western India, and several ...

Hinduism - The Vedic god Rudra gained in importance from the end of the Rigvedic period. In the Svetasvatara Upanishad, Rudra is for the first time called Siva and is described as the creator, preserver, and destroyer of the universe. His followers are called on to worship him with devotion (bhakti). The tendency for the laity to form themselves into religious guilds, or societies-evident in the case of the ...

Hinduism -
Agama - post-Vedic scripture conveying ritual knowledge and considered to have been revealed by a personal divinity. Shaivite scriptures, dating probably to the 8th century, are particularly so designated, in contrast to the Vaishnava Samhitas and the Shakta Tantras. (Compare Shaivism, Vaishnavism, and Shaktism.) The Agamas are often in the form of a dialogue between Shiva and his wife Parvati.

It is very interesting while there are many scriptures and many different forms of this religion although in the Western world the main perception is the Krishna Consciousness of ISKCON - the comparatively new and obscure religion.

None of the above mentioned Gods or Scriptures are recognised by Science of Identity or ISKCON and their religions are quite distict from Vaishnavism.

Again the question that I would like to have answered is the origins of the highly regulated KC religion propogated by ACB. It is known that he was not of high standing among the disciples of his own spiritual master, nor was he complimentary of them. Back in India ISKCON was not highly regarded and even today Indian immigrants have brought some of their traditions to local ISKCON temples while Hindu temples are very different.