Quote
atheist
Is there any place in Australia where you can view the Honolulu Advertiser on microfilm? Those August 22, 1977 articles by Walter Wright are terrific.

No. I have easy access to the major Australian reference library and have used their professional research assistance service but the best that they have to offer is what is available through Factiva - which is an online news archive. I have copies of every article on key search terms and it amounts to very little.

Thanks for the links in your last post. Will do.

I am very interested at the moment also in getting legal records. There is a publically available (for a fee) record of the TiLeaf lawsuit in New Zealand. Based on the two news reports that I do have on this topic there were investigations into the 'movie project' :wink: by the FBI - so there is a possibility that there is a file there. There would most likely also be a file on Laguna Beach and quite possibly more on ISKCON since the FBI has been involved in investigating and raiding them on several occassions.
Whether they will release these documents will remain to be seen. As far as my understanding goes you can obtain documents on anything but they may be throughly censored so all I might get is lots and lots of pages covered in black marker.

In the past three months (yeah really it has only been about that long :o ) I have still managed to find and be given quite extensive info and a lot to follow up on.

On my old blogsite, (I need to add this to the new one) I had an offer that I would be willing to negotiate payment for any information or recordings. I really don't have any money being that I live on disability payments and am also trying to fund my education but would do what I could to work something out, or pay copy/mailing costs at least so no one would be out of pocket. No one has actually offerred to sell me anything yet - but all the donations of info that have come in have been very gratefully accepted. Obviously I can't buy lectures :twisted: not that they want to sell them here anyway (as I found out when I was a student) so I need to find someone that can buy them for me. I have full faith that those who keep asking will eventually receive. Or for that matter those that keep digging will keep getting dirtier :lol:

Quote

FYI Carol Gabbard was the producer of the "Jagad Guru Speaks" cable TV program, for a time (or so I have been told).

I saw this is mentioned on mikegabbard.info which seems to be a pretty well researched site. She was officially the secretary of the Science of Identity Foundation for a time also, the discovery of which caused some controversy with her when she was on the school board and I believe led to her resignation - again patchy news reports on-line.

Quote

I've been reading in this forum about DTE recruitment through "lifestyle centres." They do have classes and presentations in these centers. I will have to make a visit soon and see what is going on. I don't remember seeing anything very obvious in the stores.

I hope that you will let us know all about it. Maybe you could check if they have a newsletter or something listing the classes if they offer Deep Peace Meditation?

Quote

In web searches, I have found "Jagad Guru Speaks" being broadcast on cable TV channels all over the place.

It is apparently on in Australia on Brisbane public access which only gets picked up in the Brisbane Metro area. www.agradesanding.com.au/gauranganews for any Brisbane readers who want to check it out.

I would like a little local based help if anyone feels like it in Hawaii/ Brisbane/Gold Coast/California - anywhere you are reading from that has an SOI prescence with something that I just can't do on-line. Most places have free media which offers free community classifieds and often you can submit to these via e-mail. The problem I have is not being in these locations I can't pick these papers up and have no real idea what local media is like from here or via the net and I would like to place some ads. If anyone reads such papers or feels like picking them up and passing on contact details or would like to offer any sugguestions on this I would appreciate it.

Kisses to my new troll demonslayer108[/color:d9c2052688]

Quote
zelig
Hey Rasha Kishka! You're back!

Quote
Radha Krishna das
Srila Prabhupad does not want to have many servants, but it is a kindness to allow us to serve Him so that we may become pure.

So, how's that working out for ya? Are ya pure yet!?
I agree. He really does not like people very much, but his allowing you all to serve is not out of kindness. It is out of a need to be an enjoyer of the fruits of your labor.

Good point, Zelig! It took me a bit of soul searching and a bit of courage to recognize that after 25 years of chanting, serving Guru, and almost turning blue from following regulative principles, that I was no "purer" than the so-called "meat-eating demon" who lived up the road... What kept me going was the thought that one day, yes ONE DAY, I would become magically purified and feel Krishna "[b:6b9af1c35b]hugging[/b:6b9af1c35b]" me (yes, J. Guru did say this!)... Maybe I was the one who was disillusioned instead of the so-called materialists who lived a regular life?

:evil:
:?:

Quote
zelig

Hey Rasha Kishka! You're back!

Quote
Radha Krishna das
In every time a Spiritual Master will appear according to the time and place, ensuring that He is easily recognised by espousing wisdom that is relevant to all and setting an example that can be followed by all.

Apparently there are a lot of people here that did not find CB very exemplary. That is the core of the discussion. In this sentence you cite some brainwashing ‘code words’, “…Spiritual Master will appear according to the time and place…”. Time and place. What this really means is that CB can make up a new religion and change the rules and traditions at his whim. This is more the characteristic of a despot or a mafia boss than a real master of the spirit. He is simply a master of enjoyment, and you, poor soul, are another victim. He has made of you a supreme fool, as I once was.

Right on, Zelig! Tell it like it is... Oh yea, the old "time and place" clause. For 5000 years the acharyas have followed the scriptural injunctions to a "T" and now all of a sudden, in the modern age, we have an acharya who does not need to follow these injunctions with the excuse of "time and place." For 5000 years the place was India and in the temples... but in this modern age the place is Hawaii and surfing on the beach??? 8) VERY CONVENIENT, isn't it?

It's amazing how we all fell for this - here is someone trying to justify a life of ease, wealth, luxury and enjoyment while treating his so-called servants like scum... "oh well, that's the acharya in the 21st century!" and if we want to be saved, we had better toe the line?

:(

Tuco says: Those who need a surf-board to walk on water are cheating[/color:dab9a2ec92].[/size:dab9a2ec92]

Quote
emntk
What is the deal with the tin-foil lined home that he lives in? Who does this besides people with mental conditions? Where is it written in scripture that a spiritual master, should you find one, may display symptoms of paranoid delusions? Is this his setting an example? Is his yelling at people who ask questions setting an example? Is his lavish reclusive lifestyle setting an example?

Well there was one devotee that everyone thought was crazy but that was because he was oblivious to anything but God not because he lined his home from floor to ceiling with tin-foil. That is completely nutty.

I know you will not answer any of this RKd directly like Maui couldn't give a direct answer regarding Bhaktivedanta having disciples that were positioned in a very important role and involved in highly criminal behavior. You can't answer this logically. You cannot excuse it away so you had better just ignore this post and pretend none of this stuff is worth your attention. But I do enjoy asking questions that are unanswerable. :lol:

(If the tin-foil is a germaphobia thing can anyone answer if germs actually won't adhere to tin-foil? Is it actually more sterile than a painted wall? Is there any scientific evidence that tin-foil would be a prefered environment to live in?)

Good question, emntk - One never sees tin foil being used in hospitals or even in special quarantine rooms - one would imagine that if tin-foil was the magic bullet to stop germs, that it would be used in places like this. It does seem to be a manifestation of some [b:1cb410b62e]mental paranoid state[/b:1cb410b62e].
:?

I can't really answer you question Jo, but your post did remind me to finish this little video that I was making to highlight a few points about Siddha's relationship with Jesus. Maybe it could help a little?

[www.youtube.com]

This minister wrote an open letter to Siddha a few years ago challenging him on his teachings regarding Christianity. He still hasn't gotten a response. [www.fathershomepage.com]

He is from Australia too - whoever is in charge down here has really dropped the ball - maybe RKd can look into that.

Quote

IS JESUS YOUR DOORMAT?
By
Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa

Did Jesus actually appear so that he could act as a doormat that is continually there for us to wipe our feet on, wipe all the blood off ourselves and again go back out and commit the same sinful activities and live the same materialistic way of life? Some people actually think that this is Jesus' position. They think that they can eternally enjoy without having to suffer the reactions of their materialistic living. But Jesus himself stated, "As you sow, so shall you reap." Foolish persons think, "As I sow, so shall Jesus reap."
CRUCIFYING JESUS

Jesus Christ is very kind. If a person sincerely repents for his sinful life and surrenders to Jesus Christ, his sinful reactions will be cleansed away. But some so-called Christians repay Jesus' kindness by crucifying Jesus and making a mockery of him.

Some so-called Christians think that they can sin, pray to Jesus for forgiveness, and then go back to sinful life again. They are not real Christians. They do not love Jesus. And Jesus doesn't accept their sins. Jesus is not a fool--he's not going to sit there and let nonsense people go back and forth, engaging in sinful life and then coming back and wiping their sinful reactions on him. They keep coming back and forth like this eternally. It is stated in the Bible very simply:

It is impossible for those who were once enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come and then fallen away, to be renewed again to repentance, since they crucify for themselves the Son of God, and make a mockery of him.

--Hebrews 6:4-6

These pseudo-Christians only imagine that they're wiping their sins onto Jesus every week in confession, in their prayers, or whatever. The fact is, they are still polluted and they will still be judged and reap what they have sown. They think that they're all right But they still have to suffer. What are they suffering from? They're suffering from a lack of love.

IN LEAGUE WITH THE PHARISEES

If these foolish persons think that they can use Jesus as a type of doormat, then they crucify the Son of God for themselves. They are in the same lot as the Pharisees and so-called religionists who crucified Jesus.

I remember one song on a television show. A man was singing, "I'm so happy that Jesus died on the cross." He was happy that the person he supposedly loved, who was supposedly the most important person in his life, was crucified. What kind of love is this? This means that he is in league with those who crucified Jesus. He says that he's a Christian and a lover of Jesus. But how can he love someone and want that person to suffer for him at the same time? Is this love? If a person truly loves someone else, then he doesn't want that person to suffer.

Even in this world, we can see that if you love someone, you are willing to suffer for them. It is not that you want them to suffer for you. Jesus himself said to us that if we love him, we should follow in his footsteps and take up the cross. What does this mean? We should be loving God as he is loving God and be prepared to sacrifice ourselves as he has done.

Following in Jesus' footsteps does not mean nailing oneself on a cross once a year, getting drunk before doing it so that the nails don't hurt so much, and then having a big party afterwards. Following Jesus means loving God as Jesus loved God. Sacrifice your energy, your time, your life in God's service as he has done, even if it brings upon you so much difficulty and suffering. You too can come to that point where you are loving God so much that you are also loving all His children and are willing to suffer for them. This is the gospel of Jesus by his words and his life's actions.

Quote
atheist
The Kailua 4th of July Parade is a big event. Mike Gabbard usually is in this parade. I heard of one parade, that took place before I arrived here, that featured Mike Gabbard playing his guitar and cult members marching around him all dressed in black. It was said to look very "cultish."

This could have been the "Grim Reaper" event - when Mike dressed up as the grim reaper to remind the homosexuals that death was after them. Must have looked a bit cultish indeed!

:wink:

ACB in sept 1965 moved to the US and by dec artist Harvey Cohen (who became one of his disciples) had found him an artist studio appartment in the hippy area and ACB started holding chants for the local lsd users. During the next year he had a shop front where he held chants 3 times weekly where Allen Ginsberg (LSD advocate) was a regular member who came and played a musical instrument. He also became acquainted with the pioneer of LSD Timothy Leary.

An ad run for young trippers:

STAY HIGH FOREVER! No More Coming Down. Practice Krsna Consciousness and Expand Your Mind Through Practicing the TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND VIBRATION

At the end of 1966 ACB had moved to San Fran where he opened the Radha Krsna temple in the hippy area Haight/Ashbury where he offered free vegetarian meals and a place for the supposed multitude of local LSD users to come down.

Jan 1967 ACB held a concert called 'Mantra Rock' where he had asked a few well known bands to play donating the profits to the temple. In the line up was Janis Joplin, Jefferson Airplane, The Grateful Dead, Moby Grape and others. Attending the concert was Tim Leary, Allen Ginsberg, Augustus Owsley Stanley II (another LSD advocate) and many locals high on LSD. At 10pm ACB arrived and Ginsberg introduced him by saying that the RK temple was offering an important community service through morning chants which will help 'coming down' LSD users 'stablize' their 'conciousness upon re-entry'.

The chanting started rhythmically and as the music grew in intencity images of Krishna were projected and puslating on the walls in beat with the music.

This event gained popularity for the Hare Krishna movement.

At the same time in Hawaii Chris Butler son of Dr Butler (lobbyist for the legalization of hallucinogenic drug marijuana who allegedly knew Ginsberg) started practicing many forms of yoga and developed his own cult where he took on disciples and instructed them to use LSD. Later this group became disciples of ACB.

The information about the Beatles that Maui offered was not actually the complete truth either. Harrison had leased a temple in England before he had supposedly met ACB and also paid for the publication of the book Krsna. In 1969 he produced and album with a hit song "The Hare Krishna Mantra" and other Krishna related songs while at the same time John and Yoko along with 6 Krishna devotees, T Leary and A Ginsberg and a few other musicians recorded the song "Give Peace a Chance"

Three months later John and Yoko along with host Harrison at his London home where the 3 met with ACB for the first time.

There is an extremely short transcript of this meeting which seems to be cropped abruptly suggesting the beginning and the ending of the conversation is largely missing. The transcript shows Yoko seemingly annoyed at asking questions of ACB for which some answers are not really related to the questions. John seems to agree with Yoko's difficulty in recieving adequate answers to her questions and tries to help. Harrison also respectful expresses his own questions which seem confused.

Yoko is asking if the Maha Mantra is so powerful why would one need any other words. She asks why this mantra is tainted and therefore suddenly impotent as ACB is stating if it comes from another source than disciplic succession. ACB changes his story and states it MAY not be as pure. John asks how you know a teacher is 'real' to which ACB states that simply that they are coming in the line of disciplic succesion repeatedly. Which is not really true either. Then Yoko asks the question:

"I see a pattern to what you've said, for instance, you said that Hare Krsna is the most super powerful word, and if that is true, then why do we bother to utter any other words? I mean is it necessary? And why do you encourage us, saying that we're songwriters and all, to write any other song than Hare Krsna?"

ACB states noone needs any other words that Hare Krsna. So Yoko re-asks the question. ACB then goes on the state that a Vaisnava needs to have a good understanding of the Vedic scriptures so they can argue with others who may criticise them.

This also does not answer the question as Yoko and John were not versed in vedic knowledge and this was their first meeting with a vaisnava who had told them to write words other than Hare Krsna.

The transcript ends there and I'm not sure they ever met with ACB again.

"Oh Let's stick to it
Ev'rybody's talking about
John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy smothers, Bob Dylan,
Tommy Cooper, Derek Tayor, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna,
Hare Krishna
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance "

This information besides the Butler stuff came from the book Chant and be Happy and this is as much as I read last night. You can see the long discussions that Maui spoke of have developed an authoratative 'nice' story of half truths regarding ACB. What Cara has said is true and I have been present for much of her research into ACB.

[www.harekrishna.com]

The link above has a chapter from the book which seems to be complete and in the same form as the book.

Anyone have info on what is happenign on the Sacramento scene with CB"s group?

Om,

I only just read your previous posts, they go back aways. I don't know anything about Sacremento but if there are any specific names you want to check up on I have a lot of those, so maybe you could PM/Email if you like.

There is a couple of things I am curious about

You have mentioned that SOI has an blacklist? I'm curious to know how it works.

How recent is this 'picnic' thing? I saw an e-mail talking about picnics and the rules of attendance in Hawaii dated around November 2005, but it did also mention gatherings, so I imagined that a picnic was something different.

Do you have any idea what questions the guy was asking that got to Siddha so badly?

On not speaking for a year when he was in Australia I heard that Siddha was speaking in Brisbane, it would have happened in the mid nineties, and there was a guy in the audience that was cracking jokes and he stormed off the stage and declared that he would NEVER speak in Australia again - but he did.

You also mentioned a while back that you have met Katayani a few times - I would really like to find her. So far I have been given some directions, but I keep drawing a blank. Did she ever have an actual organisation attatched to her independent guru status?

Question - What do you make of modern preaching efforts?

RamaKrishna - They are like inviting thousands of people to a feast when there is only enough to feed one.[/color:336ddea52f]

I don't know anything about this guru RamaKrishna - but that sounds like the truth to me! :lol: