Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: January 07, 2007 10:09AM
:D HEY JULES!
Where did you go!? We really need you back! You had a lot of good insights and commentaries. Miss you! :cry:
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’[/size:a37df3a7a2][/color:a37df3a7a2]
Where did you go!? We really need you back! You had a lot of good insights and commentaries. Miss you! :cry:
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’[/size:a37df3a7a2][/color:a37df3a7a2]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
atheist
()
Date: January 07, 2007 10:25AM
From posts that I have read elsewhere on the internet, it appears that before "Independents for Godly Government," and before the crusade against homosexuality, Mr. Butler and his devotees were campaigning against abortion.
And even now, Mike Gabbard is a regular participant and sometimes speaker at Honolulu's annual "March for Life" in January.
It appears to me that Hare Krishna teachings about sex are something like Roman Catholic teachings: Sex is for procreation only.
Just out of that belief would come anti abortion and anti gay activism.
I have read posts on the web that say that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada knew of Chris Butler's political activity and approved of it.
Now I know that not everything on the web is accurate. I remember reading a post that said that Kathy Hoshijo, Independents for Godly Government's candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives, lost by 3,000 votes in 1976. She lost by more than 35,000 votes to Democrat Cecil Heftel. So much for web accuracy.
On December 2, 2006, Hesh Goldstein, a Chris Butler devotee, on his radio show "Health Talk," broadcast in Honolulu, called for mandatory AIDS testing and a quarantine of those who tested positive. I have heard a recording of the program and he said that AIDS is a "punishment for going against God." Of course, these are old, and very discredited ideas, orignally pushed by kooks like Lyndon LaRouche.
Here's a Honolulu Weekly article (December 13 - 19, 2006 issue) that talks about the radio program:
[honoluluweekly.com]
The article by the editor of Honolulu Weekly does not mention the "AIDS is a punishment for going against God" comment, unfortunately. But you can certainly sense and almost hysterical hatred on the part of Butler devotee Hesh Goldstein.
The following article about Hesh Goldstein hints at his connection to Butler and the Science of Identity Foundation (13 years as a Down to Earth executive):
[www.vegparadise.com]
A flyer for Hesh's radio program used to be displayed on the bulletin board at the King Street Down to Earth store. It may still be there. I haven't checked lately. Hesh has been on the air for over 20 years and his original sponsor was Down to Earth.[]
And even now, Mike Gabbard is a regular participant and sometimes speaker at Honolulu's annual "March for Life" in January.
It appears to me that Hare Krishna teachings about sex are something like Roman Catholic teachings: Sex is for procreation only.
Just out of that belief would come anti abortion and anti gay activism.
I have read posts on the web that say that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada knew of Chris Butler's political activity and approved of it.
Now I know that not everything on the web is accurate. I remember reading a post that said that Kathy Hoshijo, Independents for Godly Government's candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives, lost by 3,000 votes in 1976. She lost by more than 35,000 votes to Democrat Cecil Heftel. So much for web accuracy.
On December 2, 2006, Hesh Goldstein, a Chris Butler devotee, on his radio show "Health Talk," broadcast in Honolulu, called for mandatory AIDS testing and a quarantine of those who tested positive. I have heard a recording of the program and he said that AIDS is a "punishment for going against God." Of course, these are old, and very discredited ideas, orignally pushed by kooks like Lyndon LaRouche.
Here's a Honolulu Weekly article (December 13 - 19, 2006 issue) that talks about the radio program:
[honoluluweekly.com]
The article by the editor of Honolulu Weekly does not mention the "AIDS is a punishment for going against God" comment, unfortunately. But you can certainly sense and almost hysterical hatred on the part of Butler devotee Hesh Goldstein.
The following article about Hesh Goldstein hints at his connection to Butler and the Science of Identity Foundation (13 years as a Down to Earth executive):
[www.vegparadise.com]
A flyer for Hesh's radio program used to be displayed on the bulletin board at the King Street Down to Earth store. It may still be there. I haven't checked lately. Hesh has been on the air for over 20 years and his original sponsor was Down to Earth.[]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 07, 2007 04:34PM
I think in modern ISKCON they have started reusing the same initiation names over again, but with ACB disciples each name is unique at the most only duplicated for das and dasi (male and female)
I have had several confirmations on Archaya das to be certain that it is the same person.
I would like whatever information I can get on Sudama Vipra and Gurukripa, both Siddha adherents. Sudama is mentioned in early accounts of the time with ISKCON in association with Siddha. They are both mentioned in accounts of Laguna Beach, the most scandalous temple in ISKCON history (besides Kirtananda's - although there is the possibility sugguested by some that the two were linked)
This is tentative data at the moment but it is filling out. Mentions alluding to this and my sugguestion that Siddha is still linked to ISKCON have seen a rapid increase in my trolling activity and hate mail as an indication that there are people that would rather I not dig any further.
[b:c6df8cbff6]Non-Devotees??[/b:c6df8cbff6]
[www.chakra.org]
I love this 'non devotee' BS that gets branded about and the people that say to me (and in general) if you find fault with others then you are making hell for yourself - follow the Vaishnavas and if you criticise you will get the qualities of those you criticise. Well I could surely do with a Hawaiian mansion and a million dollars. :lol: Gaudiya Vaishnavas (based on the philosophy "shit happens - hare hare") are the worst for it.
Non-devotee - when they were initiated by ACB himself :?
Here is a list of a few more people that followed ACB who they think is a Vaishnava - it really sat them well with Krishna and ensured them of good qualities huh? [www.harekrsna.org]
Um....Isn't criticising the criticisers being critical yourself? :? It is just a joke coming from a religion that was really founded by a fault finder - if Lord Caitanya had blindly followed the prevailing belief of his day than there would be no GV. Yes he was God Himself, and no I am not comparing myself to God - but let's not forget that he came to show us the perfect example. If he saw something that he thought was a nonsensical pile of crap he said it was a nonsensical pile of crap and he acted against it. Jaya.
I have had several confirmations on Archaya das to be certain that it is the same person.
I would like whatever information I can get on Sudama Vipra and Gurukripa, both Siddha adherents. Sudama is mentioned in early accounts of the time with ISKCON in association with Siddha. They are both mentioned in accounts of Laguna Beach, the most scandalous temple in ISKCON history (besides Kirtananda's - although there is the possibility sugguested by some that the two were linked)
This is tentative data at the moment but it is filling out. Mentions alluding to this and my sugguestion that Siddha is still linked to ISKCON have seen a rapid increase in my trolling activity and hate mail as an indication that there are people that would rather I not dig any further.
[b:c6df8cbff6]Non-Devotees??[/b:c6df8cbff6]
Quote
Some nondevotees — such as the former Hansadutta, Gurukripa and Sudama Vipra — were engaged in gunrunning, smuggling and other heinous offences. Other nondevotees — such as the former Kirtanananda — conspired to murder and were convicted of criminal racketeering.
[www.chakra.org]
I love this 'non devotee' BS that gets branded about and the people that say to me (and in general) if you find fault with others then you are making hell for yourself - follow the Vaishnavas and if you criticise you will get the qualities of those you criticise. Well I could surely do with a Hawaiian mansion and a million dollars. :lol: Gaudiya Vaishnavas (based on the philosophy "shit happens - hare hare") are the worst for it.
Non-devotee - when they were initiated by ACB himself :?
Here is a list of a few more people that followed ACB who they think is a Vaishnava - it really sat them well with Krishna and ensured them of good qualities huh? [www.harekrsna.org]
Um....Isn't criticising the criticisers being critical yourself? :? It is just a joke coming from a religion that was really founded by a fault finder - if Lord Caitanya had blindly followed the prevailing belief of his day than there would be no GV. Yes he was God Himself, and no I am not comparing myself to God - but let's not forget that he came to show us the perfect example. If he saw something that he thought was a nonsensical pile of crap he said it was a nonsensical pile of crap and he acted against it. Jaya.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 07, 2007 04:38PM
The picture of Sai on the Vayassasan sums it all up beautifully doesn't it?
It is obvious from Sai Speaks that he had no idea about Krishna philosophy (even he thought that the book deserved to be burned) but he had no trouble getting the bit where he should be seated above everyone else.
:roll:
It is obvious from Sai Speaks that he had no idea about Krishna philosophy (even he thought that the book deserved to be burned) but he had no trouble getting the bit where he should be seated above everyone else.
:roll:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
Radha Krishna das
()
Date: January 07, 2007 05:38PM
All of the people here have their own laundry lists of 'faults' which they perceive with Srila Prabhupad. It is obvious that there is a lot of information that is being passed around and a lot of digging being done in dirt - it is obvious in this situation who will get the most dirty.
It should be understood that a disciple is not made a disciple because they are considered by anyone to be perfect. It is not a rank, but a distinction of someone who has made the conscious decision to give their life to the service of their Spiritual Master. Srila Prabhupad does not want to have many servants, but it is a kindness to allow us to serve Him so that we may become pure.
Even if you do not agree with our spiritual beliefs that is your right to do so. If you want to spend your time in gossip that is also your choice. I will not try to impose my beliefs as to what the result of this will be for you, but all those who were disciples of Srila Prabhupad know what the teachings are and make your own decisions with this knowledge in your minds if not in your hearts.
Of course Srila Prabhupad is forgiving. He has been criticised many times. One need not concern themselves with the activities of ISKCON. This is in the past, and it is the reason why Srila Prabhupad had no alternative but to move on or accept the unsavoury antics going on. In everytime a Spiritual Master will appear according to the time and place, ensuring that He is easily recognised by espousing wisdom that is relevant to all and setting an example that can be followed by all.
What I want to know from she who has nothing to hide is this -
What do you hope will be gained by gossiping about the maritial and private affairs of those who are trying to serve Krishna?
Is there a plan to attack the reputation of businesses run by those who are trying to serve Krishna?
Do you regard the position of a Siksha guru seriously? If your words are accurate then you would accept instruction from he that you accept without compromise?
It should be understood that a disciple is not made a disciple because they are considered by anyone to be perfect. It is not a rank, but a distinction of someone who has made the conscious decision to give their life to the service of their Spiritual Master. Srila Prabhupad does not want to have many servants, but it is a kindness to allow us to serve Him so that we may become pure.
Even if you do not agree with our spiritual beliefs that is your right to do so. If you want to spend your time in gossip that is also your choice. I will not try to impose my beliefs as to what the result of this will be for you, but all those who were disciples of Srila Prabhupad know what the teachings are and make your own decisions with this knowledge in your minds if not in your hearts.
Of course Srila Prabhupad is forgiving. He has been criticised many times. One need not concern themselves with the activities of ISKCON. This is in the past, and it is the reason why Srila Prabhupad had no alternative but to move on or accept the unsavoury antics going on. In everytime a Spiritual Master will appear according to the time and place, ensuring that He is easily recognised by espousing wisdom that is relevant to all and setting an example that can be followed by all.
What I want to know from she who has nothing to hide is this -
What do you hope will be gained by gossiping about the maritial and private affairs of those who are trying to serve Krishna?
Is there a plan to attack the reputation of businesses run by those who are trying to serve Krishna?
Do you regard the position of a Siksha guru seriously? If your words are accurate then you would accept instruction from he that you accept without compromise?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 07, 2007 07:02PM
Atheist - you obviously have a lot of interest and information about SOI, so it would be cool if you could stick around.
I guess in Hawaii that you might see DTE stores fairly regularly?
Could you give us any idea about recruitment through DTE? It was posted on the forum quite a while ago that they have 'lifestyle centres' attatched to the stores. Do they run 'meditation' classes or similar activities or distribute Siddha's teachings?
What is the profile of SOI/Siddha like in Hawaii today? I have heard that they have public kirtans on the beach, although I never heard the name of the beach mentioned.
Is there any public opposition to them?
I would love to be in Hawaii and have access to the sources that you mention. I have found that even the international news archives available from here are extremely limited, as are the on-line archives for the major Hawaiian news sources.
It would be a great kindness for you to all those effected by SOI and those that they persecute and the children of the cult if you were able to put any archival material that you have found up on-line.
I guess in Hawaii that you might see DTE stores fairly regularly?
Could you give us any idea about recruitment through DTE? It was posted on the forum quite a while ago that they have 'lifestyle centres' attatched to the stores. Do they run 'meditation' classes or similar activities or distribute Siddha's teachings?
What is the profile of SOI/Siddha like in Hawaii today? I have heard that they have public kirtans on the beach, although I never heard the name of the beach mentioned.
Is there any public opposition to them?
I would love to be in Hawaii and have access to the sources that you mention. I have found that even the international news archives available from here are extremely limited, as are the on-line archives for the major Hawaiian news sources.
It would be a great kindness for you to all those effected by SOI and those that they persecute and the children of the cult if you were able to put any archival material that you have found up on-line.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 07, 2007 08:19PM
Firstly I get an email signed Carol Gabbard, then blog messages all weekend from Prahlad-das and now here you are. :wink:
Fair enough you have questions that I guess you want to ask and be answered in a public forum.
I am only allowing people if they like to accept that I have a valid offer a free sample of the fruit of the tree. If they spit it out because it is bitter that is up to them. Gained? well I would hope if people do want to go to Krishna they will not have their spirit hurt by finding out what they have gotten themselves into the same way I did.
Yes. When it goes into effect I am sure you will be among the first to know.
Fair enough you have questions that I guess you want to ask and be answered in a public forum.
Quote
What I want to know from she who has nothing to hide is this -
What do you hope will be gained by gossiping about the maritial and private affairs of those who are trying to serve Krishna?
I am only allowing people if they like to accept that I have a valid offer a free sample of the fruit of the tree. If they spit it out because it is bitter that is up to them. Gained? well I would hope if people do want to go to Krishna they will not have their spirit hurt by finding out what they have gotten themselves into the same way I did.
Quote
Is there a plan to attack the reputation of businesses run by those who are trying to serve Krishna?
Yes. When it goes into effect I am sure you will be among the first to know.
Quote
Do you regard the position of a Siksha guru seriously? If your words are accurate then you would accept instruction from he that you accept without compromise?[/[/quote]
Very seriously, that is why I follow the spiritual practices that I learned from him to this day and try to help his sister which was the last request he made of me. If he who I accept picked up the promise that he gave me at Coolangatta then of course I would follow the instructions that he gave me.
My reasoning is actually very simple. If someone believes in Krishna, as I do, then they know that he does everything for a reason. When I prayed for service and circumstances led up to me getting to go to SOI and meet my Siksa I was extremely happy and believed with my whole heart that I was meant to be a student of Siddhaswarupananda. What is apparent though is that the plan was otherwise since the whole experience led instead to this. I was turned away for stupid material reasons which you know all about. It is an offence to turn anyone away from Krishna. I heard of a lecture where Siddha thoroughly chastised one of the security people at his public kirtan for telling a passerby who stopped to listen and began boisterously chanting and dancing because he had been drinking beer on the beach to leave. He said this person must have a hard heart to do any such thing and had greatly offended him.
My rationale is that Krishna did not send me to SOI for no reason but based on what happened there it couldn't possibly be to find SOI devotees and disciples were a nice bunch of people, who's behaviour is indicative of following a bonafide spiritual teacher and who embrace Lord Caitanya's mission, where my prayers for service would be answered. It is not even possible to say that this is based on my own faulty reasoning because it was not my decision in the first place.
It is a shame that you apparently do not believe in Siksa gurus, although I have no idea what you base this on. Totalitarianism I imagine :wink: because if he told me to come back and wash his feet and sweep his floor and chant 16 rounds a day or whatever else I would do it. I even pointed it out to him that it was a shame he had gone back on his initial word because it was clear that I was willing to accept his instructions, that is based on my personal relationship with Krishna. I couldn't accept an empty promise though because then he would not be acting as a Siksa and the matter of acceptance or not would be redundant. So simply the fact that I now do what I do and any advance in doing it is actually supported by your actions of turning me away and keeping me turned away. If I wasn't suppossed to be 'attacking' as you put it then Krishna would present me with an alternate arrangement. He hasn't so I go about trying to go in the direction that he has arranged for me to go in.
I hope that answered your questions.
Siddha : You're the [b:b61da3db20]worst [/b:b61da3db20]student that I've ever heard of
Cara : Aaah, but you [i:b61da3db20]have[/i:b61da3db20] heard of me[/color:b61da3db20][/size:b61da3db20] :lol:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
Me
()
Date: January 07, 2007 08:23PM
Quote
cultreporter
with ACB disciples each name is unique at the most only duplicated for das and dasi (male and female)
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. While duplications are not extremely frequent, they did occur among the disciples of ACB.
You will notice, for example, at the database below, that there are two disciples named "Acarya dasa" -- one initiated in Sydney in May 1971, and one initiated in Vrndavana in August 1977.
[www.prabhupada.com]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: January 07, 2007 11:31PM
[b:4a91c0bdaf]In this lecture, CB/Sai shows much concern for “guys in little bodies” (presumably microbes), but in real life he had little concern for the little guys who slaved away for him, some who lived in cars or slept on cardboard boxes or in crawl spaces between floors (the WAREHOUSE). Convincing everyone that this would “purify” their souls, while he lived in luxury.[/b:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf]
[img:4a91c0bdaf]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/Yodaplanet/Sai%20Speaks/saispeakspage30.jpg[/img:4a91c0bdaf]
[b:4a91c0bdaf]He writes,[/color:4a91c0bdaf][/b:4a91c0bdaf]
[b:4a91c0bdaf]And[/b:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf],
[b:4a91c0bdaf]ROTFLMAO! I need not belabor the historical hypocrisy of this statement.
CB says, “Dialin’ for Dollars is trying to find me, I wait every day for my devotees…” [apolgies to Janis Joplin][/b:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf]
Tuco says, “There are two kinds of thieves in the world, the honest ones and the preists.”[/size:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf]
[img:4a91c0bdaf]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/Yodaplanet/Sai%20Speaks/saispeakspage30.jpg[/img:4a91c0bdaf]
[b:4a91c0bdaf]He writes,[/color:4a91c0bdaf][/b:4a91c0bdaf]
[b:4a91c0bdaf]Here is the life long justification for all manner of ethical and criminal activity engaged by CB and his followers. The infallibility clause.[/b:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf]Quote
[b:4a91c0bdaf] “The whole concept of renunciation is an illusion because it is based on the false premise that one can own anything.” “He is absolutely free…totally untouched [uncontaminated] by them”.[/b:4a91c0bdaf]
[b:4a91c0bdaf]And[/b:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf],
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote
[b:4a91c0bdaf]“A devotee will accept the twenty dollars [or please, $20,000] and his attitude will be, “This twenty dollars is for KRISHMA, it is not mine. So I will not use it for myself. I will use it to help turn on my brothers and sisters[/b:4a91c0bdaf].”
[b:4a91c0bdaf]ROTFLMAO! I need not belabor the historical hypocrisy of this statement.
CB says, “Dialin’ for Dollars is trying to find me, I wait every day for my devotees…” [apolgies to Janis Joplin][/b:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf]
Tuco says, “There are two kinds of thieves in the world, the honest ones and the preists.”[/size:4a91c0bdaf][/color:4a91c0bdaf]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: January 07, 2007 11:46PM
Quote
zelig
[b:a876441bc6]And[/b:a876441bc6][/color:a876441bc6],:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote
[b:a876441bc6]“A devotee will accept the twenty dollars [or please, $20,000] and his attitude will be, “This twenty dollars is for KRISHMA, it is not mine. So I will not use it for myself. I will use it to help turn on my brothers and sisters[/b:a876441bc6].”
ROTFLMAO! I need not belabor the historical hypocrisy of this statement.
Using the $20 to turn on his brothers and sisters? Does he mean give them some acid and a picture of Krishna with lots and lots of psychedelic colors???
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Tuco sez: The bacteria that come out of the ass of a pure devotee will immediately attain to the spiritual sky; they have seen enough shit to last a million lifetimes.[/size:a876441bc6]
:x :D
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