All of the above. I felt all of this growing up a hare krishna. In Butler's group it was easier to hide your faith in public, but once you join other gaudiya cults and dress as a devotee, shave your head, brahmin threads, sikha, Tilak, Mala etc, it's impossible not to attract unnecessary attention and try to explain to people the bizarre irrational shit you believe.

Thanks for posting this. Any hare krishna devotee who claims they don't subscribe to that list is a bold faced liar.

fohr ~
Thank you for this most excellent post.
It covers the important points to ask yourself if you are considering SOI as a spiritual path, or if you were born into it.

Years ago on this forum I asked the children of the cult to post their experiences after Rama appeared; all spit and fire. Slowly, others have bravely emerged. It does take courage. And now the Polish witnesses have given testimony.

It's not even a debate that Chris Butler is a fool, but a charismatic one who has damaged many lives as a COS PLAY guru.

Quote
fohr
Posted by: Fohr ()
Date: April 20, 2022 11:02PM

You may be in a religious cult if one of more of these apply to you:

1.You look down upon anyone not in your religious group
2.You consider only members of your religious group as worthy of making friendships or maintaining relations
3.You have broken off your old relations with family members after joining your religious group
4.You are distrustful of anyone outside of your religious group
5.Instead of becoming a better person who is able to relate to all, after joining your group, you have become a worse person who gets angry or resentful of outsiders
6.You get unreasonably provoked or angry when challenged by those outside of your religious group
7.You rationalize and justify unethical acts of your group, like cheating others, lying, and entrapping others
8.You judge others, which you did not do before you joined your religious group
9.You divulge confidential information about your family or extended family to members of your religious group and ask them for advice on how to deal with them
10.Your religious group is always right in your opinion, and anyone outside is always wrong
11.You have stopped growing as a person
12.You are distrustful of science and really any critical thinking that might challenge your group’s cherished notions
13.You are afraid of engaging with or considering new ideas outside of your religious group and afraid of learning anything outside your group
14.You go along with the most outrageous ideas and even justify them in the name of fidelity to your religious group
15.You have a fear of questioning, lest it may cause offense to your cherished leaders or teachers
16.After joining the religious group, you have developed a distorted world view, which does not match reality
17.You have mentally and emotionally dropped out of society
18.You do not consider that it is important to give your dependents a balanced outlook on the world and a strong education
19.You want to leave your religious group, but do not have the courage to face living by yourself in the ‘outside’ world.
---
I have felt numbers 2, 8, 11, 13, 15, 16 prominently.

#2: I don't like the very common way of speaking that is: "my girlfriend, she's not a devotee but she's nice/spiritual/a good person" (only relationships within the group are highly valued)!
#3: if you consider your intimate family members unfavorable to your bhakti, be very careful!
#8: I don't think many people intend to judge others, just as we don't intend to set out to be nasty to an employee at the DMV when we have our breakfast. It ends up happening with too much immersion in the authentic siddhanta...
#10: Medical professional? Not if they disagree with my temple president or Guru!
#14: The normalization of conspiracy theories... this merges with the 1960s/1970s crowd and how older people can tend towards rather out-there beliefs as they age (see: Facebook)
#15: the fear of questioning a senior is so deep you just learn *not* to ever do it. It can be unconscious.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2022 03:36PM by Vera City.

TRUTH WINS & CULTHUSIAST~

You and others here on the forum may be interested in an excellent book, "HOLY MADNESS: The Shock Tactics and Radical Teachings of Crazy-Wise Adepts, Holy Fools, and Rascal Gurus" by Georg Feurstein, Ph.D.

The book is well researched and has an extensive bibliography. Foreward by Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D., Department of Psychiatry and Human Behavior, University of California Medical School, Irvine.

It's worth the long read.

"Holy Madness" goes into the history of religious traditions and examines the phenomenon of crazy gurus and their followers.

For the spiritually minded here, who have been burnt by the madness of Butler, it does not go against your sensitivities. Feurstein does not trash all spiritual practices and acknowledges that there are authentic masters of spirituality. Agree or not agree, it is a fascinating look at the guru phenomenon both past and present.

In an "Even a broken clock is right twice a day." moment in the book, he quotes Da-Ananda as saying that western followers of eastern paths who adopt that dress and culture are simply "Narcissists in drag."
That's a great description of Chris Butler.

Chapter titles include:

Chapter 1. Holy Madness: Moderate Spiritual Eccentrics in Different Religious Traditions

.Chapter 3. The Feats and Foibles of Contemporary Crazy-Wisdom Adepts: From Rascsl Gurus to Spiritual Clowns

Chapter 6. The Guru: License to Kill
- False Images of the Guru
- True Gurus, False Gurus, Crazy Gurus

Chapter 7. Discipleship: Spiritual Cloning or Brainwashing?

Chapter 9. Holy Madness and the Smoke Screen of Consensus Reality

Chapter 11. Holiness, Madness, and Morality

Vera City Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TRUTH WINS & CULTHUSIAST~
>
> You and others here on the forum may be interested
> in an excellent book, "HOLY MADNESS: The Shock
> Tactics and Radical Teachings of Crazy-Wise
> Adepts, Holy Fools, and Rascal Gurus" by Georg
> Feurstein, Ph.D.

Thanks for recommendation. Important position it seems.

> Chapter 6. The Guru: License to Kill
> - False Images of the Guru
> - True Gurus, False Gurus, Crazy Gurus

Another topic is politically and financially supported gurus. Currently, "Sadh Guru" is being heavily promoted. Lectures and discussions are available on YouTube, for example with a rabbi in a fairly open and friendly mood. It obviously bothers the mind that he is being promoted by the establishment. Same as Chris Butler's message of "no race, no nationality," etc. he was useful during the development of globalism and the end of history, but then a national thread emerged. The presence of Wai Lan is consistent here - the power of the symbol.

Now, however, there is "Sadh Guru". Basically or at the back - also controversial - in this case his wife's departure. The guy is smart. But when his lectures are confronted with science or, paradoxically, with those of Chris Butler, it is again a contradiction. What refutes this "promoted authority". A suspicious motive comes out.

For example, he talks about not wearing the things of a deceased person. Because that's part of that person. And generally speaking, rationally speaking, it is known that such things contain residual biological material, sweat, epidermis, etc. But the generalization has gone too far. After all, the atoms of these things made up the bodies of millions of beings. Here again a suspicious figure appears, staring at and listening to by tens of thousands.

In a political sense, India is needed as a US lever in confrontation with China. A sect of a guru who married a Chinese woman (although he looks strangely masculine in the early photos and more like an Uyghurkha, maybe I don't know - well, not a Chinese woman). However, in the case of a strong tendency to reach an agreement due to the events of the war in Ukraine, it may turn out that the "Sadh Guru" will be unnecessary and someone from the Hawaiian coterie will return, not necessarily Tulsi Gabbard. Maybe Siddha Bellord, son of the guru and Wai Lana ...

A new world hero who will lead you on the path of peace, material and spiritual well-being and large commissions on loans.

The Filipino witch he struggled with, if she is alive, can get an incredible chance to raise her social status. Either through recognition or through blackmail ...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2022 07:13PM by Culthusiast.

Great find.
Butler recognizes that he has been arrogant his whole life. Of course it was all Tulsi election damage control But still, a good thing he can express it.
He also speaks of the harsh language he uses for the gay people, in the other questions.
Oh man! What a bunch of hypocrit clowns these people are.
He thinks that he can seriously fool us so easily?
Why the hell does an Acarya has to act in a way that they need to appologize later?
I hope he will one day appologze to his disciples and students. That would be the true miracle.
Good job to all that have created the SoI Tsunami. Holding this abuser accountable.


[medium.com]
[medium.com]

Great finds Truth Wins.

Butler Interview

SoI's Statement on Past Controversial Statements

Interesting how Butler, for "political reasons" has had to eat his own garbage humble pie. Ha.
But he still manages to trash others while he is at it.

Quote
Butler stated:
But unfortunately, for political reasons, some people have illegally dug them up from the past and disseminated them. Now these people too have become implicated in the offense against the holy names and, like myself, will be spiritually damaged."

Free speech and digging up his past is NOT illegal. We have only forced his hand to respond and admit his fallibility. That is something he never did in the past. This self-flagellation is a new theology for him.

It is NOT for political reasons that people on this forum have come forward to question and testify against Mr. Butler.

Yes. An apology is in order to all the past disciples he used and abused for his own comfort and NOT due to any G0d realization! By his own admission he states he has made grave errors. So he can no longer claim to be G0d's best buddie and pure representative on earth.
So will he drop the "Jagad Guru" moniker? (His own guru ACB even disavowed Butler's claims.)

But, wherever he goes, there he is. He is still manipulating people with fear and threats of spiritual death. So if you point out his history and your own painful experience in the cult, well, you are doomed.

He is still in the delusion that an "offense" (legit criticism) against him, is an offense against G0d and His Holy Name. It's just another way to control you. So nothing has really changed, except more phony attempts at mimicking humility.

Mr. Butler, you can not erase your past. Too many victims witnessed your abuses. When are you going to apologize and offer reparations for that? Offenses against G0d is one thing, but offenses against your fellow man, is another.

When are you going to make ammends directly to those followers and children you disrespected and harmed? They too have a spark of divinity within, a "spirit soul", and are part of G0d's creation.

Those who cry out in pain against you are also not just squiggles on walls!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2022 04:12PM by Vera City.

Vera City Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. An apology is in order to all the past
> disciples he used and abused for his own comfort
> and NOT due to any G0d realization! By his own
> admission he states he has made grave errors. So
> he can no longer claim to be G0d's best buddie and
> pure representative on earth.

Good move.

> So will he drop the "Jagad Guru" moniker? (His
> own guru ACB even disavowed Butler's claims.)


"That's an excellent question"
[youtu.be]

"Paramahamsa" - again a sanyasi?
"Jagad(t) Guru" - given by Parishat?
[en.wikipedia.org]

Krishna consciousness in the wrong hands is like landing on snake island.
It is extremely concerning to see what him and his disciples have done with this philosophy.
And the problem is that not many will be able to see the demonic side of SoI because they always compare with Iskcon.
If they only knew that the fear of offenses is just the boogyman, it would be game over for the bhakti yoga criminals.
And what path and which deity is worth accepting so much abuse? None. No liberation, no spiritual world is worth selling our souls.
butler trying to play it humble is like a pitbull trying to pass for a miniature poodle.
I am not sure I can evern remember the amount of times I heard him toot his own horn.
Tell others that he is the pure devotee and as such he is faultless. That we walk on razor’s age. That the elephant offense will finish you…
If offenses were real, he should be dead by now because he has commited so many.
They have broken so many rules, they have mentally tortured so many devotees as well as physically. Are those people less dear to mr krisha than him?
If he had one once of true spiritual intelligence, he would understand that he has commited the greatest offenses himself.
But they have used the fear of offenses as their number one mind control weapon for decades now.
Yamaraja let them roam free but RAMAraja brought hell into teir lives.
I am not sure anyone has created as much damage as him and he is a true fearless warrior.
The fun days are over for butler and his walk in the clowns made up wife.
Even though I have once loved him so deeply, now that I know the truth, I only see the ugly demons that have operated through him for decades.
When we make others suffer emotionally, spiritually, physically… we must admit that we are under demonic influences. Period.
And they think that they are rendering service to devotees by giving them the OPPORTUNITY to serve the god damn spiritual master.
This is why this process is so dangerous. butler and his wife are like janitors who want to perform and open heart surgery.
Their spiritual vision is certainly polluted as hell. If they think they are just helping, they better retire and shut the hell up.
They are not JUST helping. They are also hurting and the damage is not light.
Now they must always watch their backs. Not knowing who is an insider and who is not.
Wonderinhg who they can trust. Who is the next Ex memeber who can turn into a Rama Ranson. Who will mess with their secret society.
There are no more secrets. Sorry bruh!
After yeats of trying and protect their secrets. Living in so much fear of protecting the guru.
Oh man! It sucks for them. Really.
They thought that they were invincible. That they could do and act as they pleased.
butler has always been on a cocaine high when it comes to his language, abuse, using devotees. In that area, he is as fearless as a lion.
But he fears invisble germs, parasites, diseases, getting killed by Iskcon lunatics.
His fearlesness is quite selective I would say.
Nevertheless pushing him to publicly recognize some of his mistakes (I am almost sure it is a show and not sincere), is pretty amazing coming from such a king cobra narcissist.
Will he ever recognize his abuse against the followers? I highly doubt it as he thinks he is the well wisher of all earthlings. Jagad effing guru.
The paper bags on the heads have only help bring aouls closer to krishna.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is extremely concerning to see what him and his
> disciples have done with this philosophy.

Official leaders did not approach philosophy too deeply. Besides, a limited set of writings. By listening to different Sanyasi or reading Ian Koviak, I could learn a lot more. Well, simple sheep shouldn't know much ...

> And the problem is that not many will be able to
> see the demonic side of SoI because they always
> compare with Iskcon.

The question is which ISKCON, when and where. Let us take the origins of ISKCON in Poland. Legendary disciples of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami whose services harassed and eventually expelled from Poland. They forced me to leave. Then the next steps. And for me in the 90s, while I kept my distance from ISCKON, I visited the festival, the philosophy inspired, of course you had to eat well. I read the Bhagavad Gita thanks to the fact that the Polish edition in the translation of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami and His comments were translated by Polish devotee from ISKCON. I respected them. SoI Polska didn't like throwing them into one bag. Such, moreover, can be heard today from the lips of the sanyasis who left ISKCON.

Sorry bad translation.

Legendary polish ISKCON founders were harassed by security services. In SoI Poland there one could feel that ISKCON Poland is being thrown into one bag - inspired by US leaders. Of course, there were incidents at ISCKON Polad itself. Publicly known. Discussed. funny. Like sending, for example, a Christmas gift to parents in the form of cow dung in a jar based on Vedic wisdom that cow dung is aseptic ...