Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be honest with you, I have no trust in anything
> and anyone.

What about the power of dollar? :)

> Why didn’t the so called divine forces take care
> of butler. They have shown me their full power.
> And I have no doubt that they can arrange
> absolutely anything.

Much worse things are happening on this planet or dimension. Calf butchers break their limbs, although they don't have to. And someone could trade a calf for tractor parts. The reality is nasty in itself for a sensitive person. What is the existential justification for such a rather monstrous creation? It should be deep. Or maybe just machine? Well, this would undermine the perfection of the creator's perception ...

> Same thing with all the Iskcon gurus. All roaming
> around carefree.

Some were dead...

> Do you know what kind of synchronicities were
> pulled in my lige in order for me to end up in the
> most abusive center of SoI? I was almost forced to
> get in there.

Yes, you can observe synchronicities. If someone has visions for this, he sees the determinism of the environment. But that is not a surprise to me. Decades ago, I perceived phenomena and their predictable effects. Before Soi / SiF.

> How am I to know which forces pushed me there and
> why?

Tell me why Babylon...

> If that is not the case then why are some doing so
> well at SoI. Just enjoying the good side of the
> cult and posting their best lives on Instagram
> while some of us will be carrying the wounds of
> spiritual abuse for life.

Because maybe they are crypto materialists and the material machine supports the fun of materialists. Only the moral ones still have a gripe. Because, for example, they have the opportunity to make a career in a corporation after leaving SoI, but it requires sticking a knife in the back of their friend and breaking moral principles in a massive way, drawing millions from it. Nothing but to get involved in this project. And here's a grind ... No, I'm not coming in because it's immoral. And in addition on a large scale .. Can bring misery for entities...

> And when I finally left and decided not to take
> the abuse at SoI, I was met with something 1000
> times worse. It was almost as though I was
> punished for not continuing to suck up the
> spiritual abuse.

This deterioration can be explained. The Vedic process offers some form of protection. Just participating in a narrow community is also some kind of protection. The other thing was that the rules were mixed up here - the Vedic "misra". Among the favorable principles, such as healthy eating, getting up early, etc., there were also unfavorable things, such as, for example, a cult discipline aimed at drug addicts. Well, the return to the ordinary world had both advantages and disadvantages. Without the morbid regime of the sect (plus) but also a return to the world with less rules (minus).

> We truly have no answers as to why demonic forces
> were so easily allowed to roam in these 2 corrupt
> groups while BV Narayana’s groups is seemingly
> much cleaner?

You can explain in scientifically..

> midget let all the abusive center leaders carry on
> and all he did was to play psychologist at every
> retreat. Get his massages, worship, ski, mountain
> biking. Then on to another center. More abuse and
> suicides.

Grandpa Midgett's videos are very good. Because they prove that his mentality and advancement are not as great as he thought. One scene from Canada is great. Grandpa Midget enters a cabin in the mountains at one point and has a clearly surprised look on his face that someone has selflessly prepared the cabin and the sheets nicely. I mean, he considers himself spiritually advanced and suddenly collides with a care and selflessness that he would not be able to afford. He's just talking about a hike in the mountains. Moments later, in the overalls, he sits down on the sheets with his "dirty clothes". Something that Slavic mothers would not allow as disrespect for work ....

In hands of real profilers he would be a puppet...Country League. North Carolina...

> SoI is operates by the law of the jungle and the
> sruvival of the fittest. You are either a prey or
> a predator. And buthead is the lion king.

Lion King behind a tinfoil..

> I am not sure he even thinks he did anything wrong
> because he thinks that all he does is perfect.

With killed diver? With Tulsi that failed?

Come on...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2022 04:51AM by Culthusiast.

I would trust a Pitbull to protect me more than this process.
What protection do you have when you get abused day and night within the juristiction of krishna?
When you serve him 24/7 with love, give your time, your love, your life..
I will never trust these deities again if they descended themselves to invite me back.
Unfortunately the whole submissive dog and spiritual masochism does not appeal to me that much these days.
I am aware that BV Narayana was a much higher caliber guru and the setting is cleaner and kinder.
However this is the group that I was forced into and that broke me and turned me off. And I have gone way beyond the teachings of the vedas. My reality has become so scifi that no scripture and no teachers can ever explain.
You can keep your faith. Let me keep my doubts.
butler will never feel he has failed. he will always think he is the pure Acarya.
A path that has so many pitfalls that allows people to get away with murder, is not safe.
No permission to question guru, fear of offenses, forgive even if someone stabs you, see abuse as mercy… and the list goes on.
If I were ever to teach this path, I would first warn people of all these traps.
Have you ever seen these pathetic movies where the man or woman are like:
Please don’t leave me!
This is exactly how the devotees are. Slaves to the love and bliss. Ready to get kicked and abused out of fear of losing that love.
Not only do I not find that attitude attractive, I think it is repulsive.
To accept abuse in order to hold on to that divine love like some heroine addict?
A love that makes you the slave of a lunatic and his makeup counter wife?
No thanks! I think I will pass on the protection and all the other benefits the mafia can offer.
But to be fair, I have faith in the fact that krishna is much more forgiving than they say he is. After he lets you get used and abused for years, he also tries to get you back when you leave. Even if one commits many offenses.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am aware that BV Narayana was a much higher
> caliber guru and the setting is cleaner and
> kinder.

I read the lectures after critics by the SOI leaders. Definitely higher level of teaching and philosophy.

> No permission to question guru, fear of offenses,
> forgive even if someone stabs you, see abuse as
> mercy… and the list goes on.

On can leave guru actually. Certain circumstances.

> This is exactly how the devotees are. Slaves to
> the love and bliss. Ready to get kicked and abused
> out of fear of losing that love.

A sect is an offer. It exists because the need exists...A complete set of offers. Activists, losers who can only iron handkerchiefs can make a career. They will be backed by "advanced" leaders with the public wish for financial support. And so "mediocrity" has both position and money.

Anyway. Still no answer to one of the questions. "O! Radha alone on Gaudiya's paintings. Our guru said Radha is never alone. She's always with Krishna"

"Where then is Radha in 'Gopala Govinda Rama' mantra? At least/last expansion?"???

"You know, they say you give out concocted mantras, unknown in tradition and parampara"

Yeah. This horrible method is jalpa....A vedic one :)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2022 03:34PM by Culthusiast.

Interesting story anout an ex Iskcon guy who threatened to kill Tulsi few years ago.
[www.harekrsna.com]

I heard that BV Narayana encouraged 64 rounds a day. Imagine that.
The butler devotees could barely keep up with 12 rounds and sometimes they were backed up and would catch up the next day.
I remember the I am behind my rounds being used so often. Why? Beacuse all their time was spent on Wailana “service”. And now add Tulsi’s campaign.
All they have really are kirtans and Appearance days.
And at our center, retreats were so full of drama and clashes that you almost looked forward to the end.
BV Narayana I guess encouraged teh study of the Vedas and helped his followers just trip on the past times of the “divie “ couple day and night.
If you got to follow a path, you might as well do it right.
At SoI maxing out people wa seen as a blessing because you had protection againg Maya if your mind was constantly busy.
I mean the mind could have also been busy by chanting, studying and do some preaching.
However butler is an original and he has his own style and greed.
I think money has always been at the center of his cult so that he could maintain the lifestyle he wanted.
The king and queen on the throne reigning over their subjects.
And imagine how polluting their lifestyle has been. Decades of masks and gloves to keep these 2 sissies safe. As well as being used at retreats around the world.
And of course Tulsi wants to save the enviroment. Another good joke.
Anyway Tulsi and butler keep fooling yourselves and those who are stupid wnoigh to believe you.
The word hypocrisy is just to weak to describe him. And she just goes along with the puppet show. Misleadinh millions of Americans.
Staying fathful to the secret society methods. But as we all know it, all immoralities and crimes are done for krishna. So it is kosher.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard that BV Narayana encouraged 64 rounds a
> day. Imagine that.

Yes, that's an interesting aspect. In SiF Polska, there was talk of a minimum of 12 for initiated or serious. Supported by lectures by Chris Butler that somewhere with this reduction in the number of rounds per day you have to stop. Legends said that Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati chanted 192 rounds. The sanyasis I spoke with said that 16 is an encouragement. Or is 64 an incentive?

The question is as with today's realities in the Western world. And the question was who chanted these rounds at what pace. You know, work, study, etc. There wasn't much time for chanting. For this involvement in the cult. The realities of the Western world for a lay person make such demands of 64 rounds unrealistic. At least for those hardworking or studying.

For me, 5 rounds was a lot. Then I jumped to 12, but his involvement in the cult gave me no chance for more. Well, let's say 32 once, which was a lot of effort in the initial stages. In fact, decades later, these 32 rounds were already light. It can be confirmed that it is so.


> I remember the I am behind my rounds being used so
> often. Why? Beacuse all their time was spent on
> Wailana “service”. And now add Tulsi’s campaign.
> All they have really are kirtans and Appearance
> days.

And this is a big difference between SiF / SoI and other sangas, closer to Gaudiya Math or traditional lines. There the emphasis is on chanting, the meditation process, not work and money.

> And at our center, retreats were so full of drama
> and clashes that you almost looked forward to the
> end.

There were different approaches to retreats in Poland. Eg bars with pictures of various pastimes, "rasa basa", confusion, mixture. This is Radha Krishna, this is Yasoda, the cowherd boys. 10 laps and with maximum concentration schizophrenia - spiritual - inevitable. Fortunately, it was always possible to be exposed to the rudeness of activists, especially new recruits, so the stress was associated with something other than just a mix of pastimes on the post.

Of course there were nice kirtans in a nice soft melodic mood, by nice devotees, and it was soothing. Well, but there were those like one of the leaders - worked furiously like a machine gun and you could go crazy. His mouth fired the mantras so quickly...

> BV Narayana I guess encouraged teh study of the
> Vedas and helped his followers just trip on the
> past times of the “divie “ couple day and night.
> If you got to follow a path, you might as well do
> it right.

There was one of the devotee in Poland who had contact with the Guru and returned to Poland, he did not really want to submit to the local leader, but he approached the Gaudiya tradition very seriously. Well, but he was sentenced to banishment, cursed. His initiation was taken away. Nevertheless, he believed and served the guru. Other sanyasis commented on his attitude that he was either very stupid or very devoted. In practice, he was able to tactfully promote the Vedic culture in the local community by outclassing the cult.

> I think money has always been at the center of his
> cult so that he could maintain the lifestyle he
> wanted.

Best beach requires money..

In Poland in the 90's the program was carried out seriously. Mangala arati, breakfast, guru puja, lunch, dinner at the centers. They were separate artika. Sometimes combined. There was attention to the standard, but a small group of those who were involved in the temple worship did not have time for other things. But there was seriousness. In some centers this came close to the Gaudiya mood - it was not the americana hawaaja sampradaya style. Of course, there were Chris Butler's lectures, but it was somehow consistent. If it weren't for this morbid criticism of people it would be a nice sect. Well, it was an exaggeration. Or that strange mood. Whoever farts will be shoot it or burned at the stake.

Then, somewhere out there gradually hypocrisy. And the accounts of former members that the initiates here and there broke the governing rules. Of course, there was also the Grand Vizier who, from the very beginning, combined charisma with a dose of verbal brutality. And its co-leader.

> The king and queen on the throne reigning over
> their subjects.

In Poland, apart from two charismatic leaders, a circle of adoration has appeared. Especially around Tapasya das. Activists. All to tact. Deputy Guru says - they clap their hands .. And heads ...

> And of course Tulsi wants to save the enviroment.
> Another good joke.

Yes, by endorsing a donation to Planned Parenthood. Cosmetics from embryos? Fetuses? There is peace in the world? Forget Tulsi. Even Leo Tolstoy understood that where there are abortions, there will be wars ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2022 03:56AM by Culthusiast.

I miss the days when I blindly accepted the religious narrative. I wish I could be like most humans and that I had never been exposed to the fringe side of this reality.
Life is so much easier when you have faith that you deserve all that happens to you. And that there is a greater plan. That god is control.
We deserve all that happens to us, including spiritual abuse…
Until I have very solid answers, I will always have doubt about the pure goodness of what we consider god (no matter what religion we speak about).
And Karma is an amazing excuse to justify the horrors that take place in this realm, including spiritual abuse.
The only way to stand all the injustices, is absolute obedience and blind faith.
I have seen the worse side of humans in this lifetime, however the level of cruelty that I have experienced via invisible forces surpasses anything anyone can ever imagine.
If I call those forces demonic, I will give the so called divine forces an easy break. I think they work together.
The reality is that whatever forces are in charge of earth, can do whatever the heck they want. Pretty much like butler.
But unfotunately that ain’t going to work with me.
Unconditional love,forgiveness, humility… are all very sweet qualities, but it can also be quite dangerous in this realm.
Who decides that the perfection of this life is to be a Haridas Thakura, Prahlad, Jesus…?
What does that attitude truly do? Enable those who like to make others suffer such as butler and some of his demon infested disciples.
I know a devotee who uses the excuse of pms to lash at others. What will be the excuse when she is much older? Menopause I guess.
They think they can just freely do whatever the heck they want and take advantage of the high spiritual qualities that bhakti yoga imposes upon souls?
So I guess that BV Narayana offered a safer space for obedient souls. At least you can be submissive without having to worry about warewolves.
At the SoI, it is dangerous to chant 64 rounds a day. The more humble and kind you become, the more they will lord over you.
Next thing you know, you will not even be allowed to sleep one hour a night.
At SoI, devotional service is like alcohol. You need to be that busy in order to forget that you are in hell and not in a spiritual community. Drunk with busyness.
You can count on one thing alone. Your sacrifice will be rewarded by abuse.
Unless you are in the Elite team and the Instagram type devotee who only enjoys travel, praise, good marriages, living in houses paid by drug or money laundering money…

-How many rounds do you chant? Zero.
-How many hours a day do you serve? Zero.
-Who is your daddy? Who is your wife or husband?
-one of the members of the SoI royal family.
-Ok, I will respect you and kiss your hand my prince/princess. Enjoy all the priviledges and the royal quarters.

-How many rounds do you chant? 64
-How many hours a day do you serve? 20
-Who is your daddy? Mr. X or Z, a simple materialist.
-Oh really? Let me see how I can make you pay for not having SoI blue blood sucker. Go sleep on the floor of the maid’s chambers (some devotee’s garage)! I will throw you some rotten fruits and veggies to keep you alive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2022 03:28AM by Truth wins.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Life is so much easier when you have faith that
> you deserve all that happens to you. And that
> there is a greater plan. That god is control.

Interestingly, in one of the presentations, Chris Butler pointed out that the motive for recruitment and the feeling of belonging to the group (and its benefits / succession) in cults arose out of fear. If more of "us" makes "us" more sure, we are on the right path.

> I have seen the worse side of humans in this
> lifetime, however the level of cruelty that I have
> experienced via invisible forces surpasses
> anything anyone can ever imagine.

It is true, however, that the abandonment of the cult or the attempt to present the realities of the world brings out various "phenomena". One can also tell from the rut that by letting go of the shackles of the cult mentality, one can experience the promises of higher beings, during which one's own psychology and mentality seem primitive and demonic.

> Unconditional love,forgiveness, humility… are all
> very sweet qualities, but it can also be quite
> dangerous in this realm.

The world of physics is a world of boundaries. Unconditional love and other ideas are a set of recruitment narrative tricks of SoI / SiF.

If there are 3 sweet prasada balls left for feast once a week, and there will always be 4 amateurs for sweet balls, then one of those who will driven by unconditional love, he will give up the sweet ball every time, he will never eat it ...

It was supposed to be humility, unconditional love but in the end and Chris Butler decided that it was a large family. When you throw sweets, the wilderness that tears it out will not increase the size of the supply through more intense competition. The number of sweets thrown is limited as well as the range. The possibilities of a master's hand. Unless he uses mystical powers and flew on to the humble ones in the back.

In SoI / SIF, when it comes to paying for work by "familia" members, somehow she had failed to overcome the heavy hands that reached into the wallet.. And many other examples described. What is the spiritual equality that Ian Koviak described in the Philippine school of brahmacari. The best treated son of the guru who sneaked out at night and visited a Filipino prostitute.

The general feeling of dissonance, mixed with ideas and twards, was experienced in SiF after a drop in enthusiasm. The enthusiasm in the beginnings was big.

> So I guess that BV Narayana offered a safer space
> for obedient souls. At least you can be submissive
> without having to worry about warewolves.

First of all, they study scriptures...Much more scriptures...

> Unless you are in the Elite team and the Instagram
> type devotee who only enjoys travel, praise, good
> marriages, living in houses paid by drug or money
> laundering money…

I remember one of the activists, a new 'material' to SiF / SoI Poland, who joined with enthusiasm and as a divorcee quickly assimilated hostile attitude towards men in the cult. She - a fresh blood, ready to use sharp tools every time a low male creature showed disrespect. You know - most leaders in Poland were woman.

And what? And shortly afterwards, this walking spirit of purity, devoid of bad influenceof 2 lower modes of nature, began to materially present on Facebook her pictures from the powerhouse, which very nicely looks like her ass in different poses. What about the hypocrisy..isn't it?

> -How many rounds do you chant? Zero.

I talked to some students of a sannyasi, and they told me that such a question can at least be described as tactless. The number of rounds is a private matter between the student and his master. What shows that in SiF / SoI rudeness and contempt has become a standard.

> -Who is your daddy? Who is your wife or husband?

In Poland, one of the people told me a story of how one initiated maid accused another married woman that because she did not have a fire sacrifice, she was not really the wife of this also initiated devotee. Bad vibes, isn't it?

However, decomposing it into prime factors shows an interesting thing. Traditionally, the marriage ceremony should be accompanied by a fire sacrifice - well, we are not discussing the Vedic 8 kinds of marriage, one of which is 'gandharva' - without a priest. In SiF / SoI, the proposed solution was to offer Krishna a civil marriage certificate. And that's what this couple did.

And now the great initiated Vedic scholar is telling her sister that offering a civil marriage certificate to Krishna is not as powerful as a fire sacrifice. Agnihotra. Isn't Krishna omnipotent because he lacked the element of fire and butter? Or maybe the materialistic office is so powerful that Krishna can't do anything .... Hm ....

That says a lot ...



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2022 05:18PM by Culthusiast.

Not "powerhouse" but "sports gym" - bad translation in sentence [further corrections]:

Quote

And what? And shortly afterwards, this walking spirit of purity, devoid of bad influence of 2 lower modes of nature, began to materially present on Facebook her pictures from a sports gym, which very nicely showed her ass in different poses. What about the hypocrisy..isn't it?

Overall, their approach is disappointing. Still only lying or denial. Maybe you'll finally go to court? There will be an opportunity to shoot. Just prepare yourselves better because there will be a battle with evidence. Let it not be a "shooting gallery" but just a little bit of entertainment ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2022 05:44PM by Culthusiast.

butler, his minions, maya, kali yuga, demonic natures… Will always be the perfect scapegoats.
I will keep exposing them. But I know all quite well who is pulling the strings of this puppet show.
The name of the game is to keep souls broken and traumatized so that they will never realize who and what they truly are.
And noone does this job as well as butler and his mini demonic disciples.
butlertown is an obedience training center.
Have you ever seen devotees who jump up and down when gurudeva appears. So happy to see their master.
I have always loved dogs. I never knew I had to act like one to get the favor of the gods.
Funny how everybody loves to make this path look so romantic. With all the amazing songs, mantras, theories, stories, bliss…
What is guru at the end of the day but a dog trainer who hits you on the head left and right so that you submit. Be that person a saint or a demon. This is the role of the guru.
Sorry if my analogies are offensive but please try to convince me that butler is treating his followers like humans.
Throw all self respect out of the window, ad you will be the perfect devotee that everybody loves. When you no longer care who cleans their feet on your head, you have attained the perfection of life.
All this so that you can be a blade of grass, house, gopi, bird, tree… in the spiritual planes eternally.
I will say it again and again. The joke is and has always been on us.