Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is really outrageous is that some people are
> forced to surrender their business to them.

There were such testimonies, mentioned here at the Forum, that certain businesses - managers - were forced to pay unreasonably large subsidies/donations, which greatly affected the condition of these companies. Irrational, ie violating free funds necessary for development or advertising, etc. (And business in Poland is a difficult piece of bread. Unfriendly tax system. And while the economy is ranked, for example, on the 36th place, the tax system is unfriendly at about 136th place in the world) .And then the hard interventions of people from outside the cult resulted in the improvement of the condition of these companies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 11:11PM by Culthusiast.

Yes, I agree butler's cruel style was imitated by his followers. Children's feelings were often dismissed as "false ego", self pity, or naive verse were quoted like "from lust comes anger, from anger comes bewilderment etc... Basically insulting people as lusty low creatures. Kids who were chanting japa daily, reading scripture and performing all manner of services.

Butler often fixated on sex. He was demeaning of his female followers to horrific levels. He once called out a woman (personal srrvant) as viewing all men like a penis with a wedding ring because she wanted to get married.

Kids heard this type of stuff as young as 5 years old regularly from their guru's mouth.

Butler also sexed up his videos by dressing in fashionable turtlenecks, shoulder pad suits and having his audience in the front be mostly attractive men and women. Definitely not a humble, simple vaishnava preacher. He knew what sells.

Butler is listed on many of vaishnava Dasis videos under his Chinese moniker. This has all been discussed on this forum.

In recent times he has attempted to give a new image, dressing in more Buddhist/Chinese attire, and going simply by "Siddha" on publications. It is also not clear if he is divorced from wailana, or taken babaji or sanyas, if so, from whom? He wears a white vesha, but his wife presumably lives down the street. She has not taken up any formal preaching. She instead makes cheesy products and music videos akin to what you'd see on a kids TV program like barny the purple dinosaur.

But jai all the way!

The bigger these cults get the less culty they feel to unwitting seekers. In many ways they dilute philosophically to a comfortable point where it's just another simple religion that believes in a savior, heaven and hell and salvation.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I agree butler's cruel style was imitated by
> his followers. Children's feelings were often
> dismissed as "false ego", self pity, or naive
> verse were quoted like "from lust comes anger,
> from anger comes bewilderment etc... Basically
> insulting people as lusty low creatures. Kids who
> were chanting japa daily, reading scripture and
> performing all manner of services.

Horror

> Butler also sexed up his videos by dressing in
> fashionable turtlenecks, shoulder pad suits and
> having his audience in the front be mostly
> attractive men and women. Definitely not a humble,
> simple vaishnava preacher. He knew what sells.

"spiritual credibility"

> In recent times he has attempted to give a new
> image, dressing in more Buddhist/Chinese attire,
> and going simply by "Siddha" on publications.

Pantheistically / impersonalistically.

> It
> is also not clear if he is divorced from wailana,
> or taken babaji or sanyas, if so, from whom?

Sanyas? Second time? What about to infom "disciples & friends"?

> He
> wears a white vesha, but his wife presumably lives
> down the street. She has not taken up any formal
> preaching. She instead makes cheesy products and
> music videos akin to what you'd see on a kids TV
> program like barny the purple dinosaur.
>
> But jai all the way!

Jai! Jai! We don't cry
Spot the lie, bye



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2022 12:06AM by Culthusiast.

Beware the mad man who tries to convince those around him that his ideas hold water. Beware the mad man that tries to normalize his views or vilify all other views as lesser than his own. Beware the madman that seeks, demands or positions himself in the line of worship, praise and adoration. Beware the mad man who claims to be be the sole keeper of wisdom. Beware the mad man who leaves behind him a trail of trauma, abuse, distortions and lies but claims exemption by divine decree. Beware the mad man.

Any mildly rational person who would enter into Butler's home would see vividly the life of a mad man.

Bhaktivedanta attracted many mad men. Mad men attract mad men. As e walked through airports with followers throwing themselves at his feet and creating a stir, he made no effort to stop such fanatical behavior in a humble. If anything he expected it. Adoration is it's own sense gratification. The mind is very stimulated by attention and adoration given. You cannot tell me that the swami got no kicks from sitting on thrones while his followers hung on to his every word, no matter how nonsensical those words could be at times.

Bhaktisiddhnata feared to be in the same room alone with his mother and sister. If that is not madness, I am not sure what it is. And by extension to blame his disciple for his "fall down" for allowing his mother into his room is mad.

Bhaktiviniode having visions of geographical locations of chaitanyas birth is mad.

Chaitanya who could barely take care of himself as he fell regularly into epileptic seizures is mad.

Having the goal of life be the realization of your siddhadeha as a manjari is mad.

Madness is contagious. In extreme cults like Jim Jones, you can plainly see rational people drawn in by seemingly rational ideas at the start, but quickly it became something else. We now call falling for the likes of such madness "Drinking he cool aid". And which one of us has not drank the cool aid of the foot bath water of Butler? Or some other guru? Which of has not had 3 day old charnamrita milk water that bathed a metal statue? Which of us has not drank from the polluted ganga? Madness is contagious. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Madness is not bad. It exists. But if you recognize it, understand it, and have sense enough to see through it, why keep following it?

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The bigger these cults get the less culty they
> feel to unwitting seekers. In many ways they
> dilute philosophically to a comfortable point
> where it's just another simple religion that
> believes in a savior, heaven and hell and
> salvation.


Right, and perhaps to the chagrin of Srila Prabhupada and past acaryas. It merges with the explosion of yoga asana, vegetarianism, general meditation, ~relaxation~, and spirituality that contrasts with strict religiosity.

I think there's a point where it gets so diluted and generalized that it could even become a net positive. People just get a little dose of a philosophy nugget that isn't too esoteric or earth-shattering, and they sing and dance and get a chance to be a hippie for a little bit.

The caution comes in when they want to go a little deeper (or are naively encouraged to do so). Anything good must be GREAT if you do it more (the 'more is better' heuristic).

Their conversion from hippy to happy is going to take lifetimes as the standard keeps rising! In a weird way, the ways yoga has morphed and bordered on neo-colonial appropriation can potentially remove some aspects of ritual or cult dyanmics. Or, distort it and make new problems!

Fohr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Their conversion from hippy to happy is going to
> take lifetimes as the standard keeps rising!

Someone who can't see too far may want to go from "hippie" to "happy man". Whatever it might be. Or from "no job, no obligations, free" through "always happy" to "happy man". Transformation ....

Run Forest Run, I have no doubt that people do not make things up. I just needed to have someone who witnessed with their own eyes to confirm it.
So today I got an email from a good friend in the community.
I will not copy and paste her email out of respect.
I was told that I am playing vigilante. That I see myself and others as victims.
That a vigilante has no faith that god is in control and that he does not care about those who get abused.
That it is all Karma and that we let our minds take over and we identify with our bodies…
Basically we must just pick our beads, chant our rounds and let abuse go on in spiritual communities.
What the actulal hell is wrong with these people who consider themselves so learned?
Of course it feels better to walk like a Jesus or Haridas and forgive others.
That everything that happens to others is their karma.
There are no solutions but to pick up my beads and chant the holy names.
The magic holy names one formula fits all.
I remember those Jesus days quite well. Where I would pick my beads up and play it humble after the abuse.
It was such a false humility because I knew it was pure BS. My heart kept telling me get the hell out. I was shown all the non sense.
I decided not to pay attention to the feelings.
What a passivity and cowardice these devotees deal with. What has passivity served people? Let Narcissists run loose and destroy everybody.
Tired of the god damn Karma excuse and that we must keep forgiving others.
A guru that is supposed to take on the karma of others mut deliver karma to his followers? Oh that sounds like an amazing logic.
Should I not give a crap because they still felt bliss and embraced by krishna?
Cowardice is so encouraged in the mind of these blissed out people.
This is exactly why this rotten hell has been permitted for 40 years.
They want to preach to me with their elementary knowledge of this reality.
They have tunnel vision and think that there is only one way to relate to god.
Crawl like a wounded dog or nothing else.
The bhakti yoga lower than the straw on the street bliss factory.
What an amazing life these people have. Totally oblivious to tyranny both in their group and in the world. I wish I could put my head in the sand like this.
Maybe bhakti yoga is a spiritual psyop to turn everybody into passive cowards.
Is this what spiritual life is all about? To just accept abuse as Karma and let karma take care of abusers?
What if we are supposed to deliver butler and his minions their karma?

Yes, its one of their worked out patterns.

But it can be reversed. after all, one should follow the example of the "guru". Two divers are brazenly swimming in the water next to your own piece of beach, and this is your karma. take the beads and chant. And two morons take a motorboat and cut them with an engine ....

ooops ...

Or next example. Arjuna. Ksatriya. Krishna says, my friend, That's your karma. Not duty. Just stay here and let kill yourself by sons of Kuru.Great my Lord i always thought it should be like that..



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2022 10:13AM by Culthusiast.

Or another. Chris Butler sad that both sides are responsible. So what about anartha nivritti. You want to neglect it? Sure. That's what you do. Stay both on the same level - only conclusion with C.Butler teachings and scriptures..Pramana...