Anyway, i must say i love polish activists formal sincerity. Not narrative of course.

But look on the names.

MAYE Association. One MAYA. Two MAYA'S. In polish plural "MAYE".

Or this OM Gang & Friends.

Or earlier music band "Frozen hearts". Mood of cardiac surgery ...

I know a lot of old timers have left the conversation.
I need to know about the paper bag. Has anyone witnessed it directly?
Like seeing it with your own eyes and what was the context?
Did it happen often?
Cuthusiast, are people in Poland also recruited to slave day and night for wailana. I guess those who speak english?
Are there any insiders they can confirm if people are still being fined in the kotchen? That list was quite old. And it was in Newzelamd I think.
And if you know of people who got their health damaged by the intensive “service”, staying up at night…
I know thag the overworking people is present in Canada and US.
If there are any secific extreme abuse stories, please share.
I am garhering as much info on the emotional, psych, spiritual abuse as possible.

Truth wins Wrote:
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> I need to know about the paper bag. Has anyone
> witnessed it directly?

Me too.

> Cuthusiast, are people in Poland also recruited to
> slave day and night for wailana. I guess those who
> speak english?

I don't know what it looks like now. In the first decade of the 21st century, there were graphic artists and programmers (initiated disciple, huge brain). Two or more people then went to Australia to help. Perhaps a third artist-graphic designer helped them. Kind people. Hardworking. They showed no symptoms of exhaustion and did not treat others badly. One of these people had a relationship with a former ISKCON member - family, adopted children. Nice people. I believe the person left SoI. But I have never heard of them getting any money for their work.

We are speaking about great talented people. Like Ian Koviak in his profession. They worked in Poland for well known companies. So you know, treating them like slaves in itself shows idiocy, arrogance. Waste of potential.

Like one of the people. Student of the elite technical department in Poland. The best. He got up at 3 am, glued posters and, sharing his spiritual duties with his studies, reached almost the top rank in his studies. Which he then threw. Year before graduation. Because you know. The sect more important. And he became an activist, but that's a different story.

What to add, The highest level of intellect and academic education. This sphere was able to study even at 2 universities at the same time. Or even 3 directions.

The egotism of the Hawaiian sect is so great that they could not see the talents, the potential.

Yes, they knew English. English was standard in better secondary schools (high school) in Poland. Besides, they are professionals, they had to know English.

> Are there any insiders they can confirm if people
> are still being fined in the kotchen? That list
> was quite old. And it was in Newzelamd I think.

I remember the account of a woman who returned from the kitchen service. It was an uninitiated but very seriously involved person in Poland. The centers were small. Spending time ended up with financial problems. Disciplined. It is said that her ego took her only once. After she returned from the kitchen service, she didn't seem to be radiant with happiness. It was as if the entire service was a form of shock to her. But that's my perception.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 06:24PM by Culthusiast.

Thanks Cuthusiast. Maybe we know the same person.
I had a friend from Poland who left chanting gradually after she returned from krchen duty.
You know the saying:
“If you cannot take the heat, stay out of the kitchen”.
Imagine the irony how they sing the praise of mother earth.
So if they care so much, imagine the amount of tin foil, masks, gloves… that are used to serve thes impure devotees.
How amazing it is for the planet.
And then you have Tulsi who picks garbage up in public.
These people are truly in need of some major wake up call.
They love talented people. If you have talent, they will for sure treat you differently. I feel sorry for those who thought being maxxed out is the norm.
Not being able to breath. This is to them the perfection of spiritual life.
Not to let Maya in even if it is for one second.
These people have to forget they have a body. Walking around with severe health issues they never address.
On the other hand, the leader of the center ate only organic, went to alternative healing, had a million dollar house…
But the so called studenst were expected to live in modly places.
I am not sure how they are not ashamed of themselves.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Cuthusiast. Maybe we know the same person.
> I had a friend from Poland who left chanting
> gradually after she returned from krchen duty.

Testimony? Reflections?

> Imagine the irony how they sing the praise of
> mother earth.

There is also duality here. Eg festivals. They are pro-ecological and recruiting. It's good that they promote vegetarianism, tasty cuisine, and teach cooking. But there is also recruitment going on.

And it comes out. For example, on one of the profiles of these projects, I think "Festival Beztroska" - they hung posters around the city that the festival would take place. When the festival was over, the posters weren't scuffed/removed. Then some pro-ecological activists or ordinary people on Facebook accused them of littering or disfiguring the city and allegedly being pro-ecological. This opinion hung around for a while.


> These people are truly in need of some major wake
> up call.

Difficult proposition. To admit after 3 decades of service that it made no sense ... There was some sense. Social. Vegetarianism. Philosophical education etc ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 08:12PM by Culthusiast.

Fohr, in the past years I have realized that sticking to just one path is not the way to fully grow.
I feel as though bhakti yoga is kind of a lala land illusion that protects us from the outside world.
They tell you never to look at anything else. Not to google butler…
So basically if you are in the cult and never google butler, you will think till the end that he is the pure and only Rep. of krishna.
It is a nice sweet illusory world of fantastic stories, being around semi decent people, one appearance day after the other.
Unfortunately reality is quite ugly and evil is out there big time. We just close our eyes and think that Karma will take care of it all.
And we try to bring others into that fantasy world we cocreate together.
It could be a nice fabricated reality if all devotees came with no baggage and if there was not so much fear involved.
Sadly the level of fear that is injected into devotees (as well as countless vaccines) makes that lala land even more scary than the “material world” they avoid so badly.
On the other side of fear, one can relate to any deity or divinity in a differnt way.
Relationships are unique and the group setting kills that uniqueness, raw and organic connection.
People approach deities like a beggar. And we are trained to be feel defficient. Service and the mantras become like the spiritual food that you die without.
And truly an addiction as strong as crack.
This is why many put up with abuse, same way an addict is ready to go to prison, steal , kill to get their fix.
The brain does get addicted to that transcendental high.
The greatest fear is to be cut off from getting the nectar. As I said it before they see guru as the only dealer on the planet who can facilitate the “nectar for which we are all ANXIOUS”.
Most religions do not encourage you to do the inner work because if you do, you would attain more self sufficiency.
Relating to deities on a level of “I do not need your love” is very different than crawling on the floor and kissing the feet of guru.
I have literally fought demons and gods in this lifetime. And my greatest goal is not to attain spiritual perfection but to overcome fear.
One must jump over 10000000 million obstacle in order not to fall into the many traps that separate us from our potential.
And how twisted to be forced to love god and others unconditionally while we load ourselves.
guru is the third wheel that is absolutley not needed at one point.
They are more an empediment than anything else.
Getting out there, going down the rabbit hole, finding out terrible truths is scary.
But without experiencing everything, one cannot extract only what serves them.
They must accept the bible, koran, gita… to be the absolute.
Take the good with the bad and stay stuck.
If being bliss heads is what works for some. Be it.
When gorwn ass men look up to guru for instructions, they are still babies.
And if guru is polluted, he pollutes everybody. We have all catered to the craziness of one man or decades. And called it spiritual life.
One must take their guru pacifier out of their mouth and stand on their own feet.
Before we go help others, we must first know who we are, how this reality, the psyche operates.
Bhakti yoga is a piece of the puzzle imho and far from being the whole puzzle.
I honestly wish I did not have to be involved in this mess, but we can no longer allow abuse to be a norm.
It is no pleasure to be the SoI garbage cleaner, risking getting sued or killed.
However this crap has lasted way too long.
Each and everyone of us, no matter which Sangha we come from, should actively expose the non sense. This way we will protect at least a few soul.
We once thought we were saving souls. Now we must protect them.

What is really outrageous is that some people are forced to surrender their business to them.
Like the Cassava chips that were an independent devotee company. It now has the property of WL. With her picture.
Or the cookbook devotees have such a hard time putting together. They take credit for everything. What a scam.
I wonder if the poor devotees who started the business get a bit of money or not.
If this is not a cult, then what is?
How the hell did I miss all these red flags?
Yes people. Protecting other souls from entering that hell hole is a great humanitarian mission.

The bag on the head happened. I personally witnessed many devotees being openly humiliated at beach gatherings and letters from butler instructed to be read in front of all the devotees demeaning and insulting or excommunication. This was done regularly to the point where many were petrified they would be next. What does anyone stand to gain in making up the paper bag incident? Butler looks plenty bad without the bag.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They tell you never to look at anything else. Not
> to google butler…

Sure. Uncontrolled violent angry reaction

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How the hell did I miss all these red flags?

Simple. You descended too fast with the beads in your hand ...

But going back to Papa Dolphin's narrative - about fear and gentleness - we should recall the confession of one of the most empathetic people in SiF / SoI Polska about Papa Dolphin , mentioned on the forum.- "I'm afraid of his wrath."

Ooops. Tell me why...????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 11:00PM by Culthusiast.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The bag on the head happened. I personally
> witnessed many devotees being openly humiliated at
> beach gatherings and letters from butler
> instructed to be read in front of all the devotees
> demeaning and insulting or excommunication. This
> was done regularly to the point where many were
> petrified they would be next. What does anyone
> stand to gain in making up the paper bag incident?
> Butler looks plenty bad without the bag.

This type of behavior drew my attention in the case of leaders in relation to, for example, marriages at retreats or meetings. It was not of heavy caliber, but it exceeded the limits of taste or respect for relationships. This aroused the suspicion that it was an imitation, a manner transferred from the upper strata of the sect. Some in turn, former members of SiF Polska say that they witnessed quarrels between the initiates "behind the official facade".