What is "The air of life raised under the cover of the skull."?

The gaudiya path and vaishnava ideology in general is useless blabbering to me. When I hear even a bit of it or sense it in the room my mind screams and my expression sours. Auto response after years of studying them, thier bullshit ideas and practices.

There are maybe 10 valuable verses to me in a scripture like gita. All borrowed from Buddhist and samkhya philosophy. By valuable I mean they sound cool and have some functional use. And no, they were not spoken by a blue god to his buddy who was son of rain god indra. Please guys.

I don't believe in any of the myths, personalities and stories. Not even chaitanya. Little to no historic works exist to show he was real. Socalled biographies by fanatical followers read exactly as such. They read like myths, not biographies, what with all the descriptions if the "whole earth shook and cried when the lord danced". Outside of Bengal and orissa nothing was shaking or crying.

I believe nothing of siddhis, shaktis and any other fancy Sanskrit lingo used by cults for converting people with cheap words.

If I'm arrogant in my rejection of it, so be it. I am at peace with who I am, what I stand for and what I have out of my life experiences.

I reject idiocy and strive for common sense. I trust in reasoned choice and accept what is in my control to affect and reject what is not and move on.

Be well comrades. Run, stay humble, stay curious, be vigilant and don't waste time on bullshit. Life is short.

Run Forest Run, Your rejection of it all is solely your business and nobody else’s.
As you said it, you are fine with who you are.
The way others view us is their business.
We spent way too many years held hostage of the approval of the cult leaders and members.
This journey is extremely individual and we all have our stories which seems to be quite different from each other.
I know that behind the hurt, dfferent views… most of us are here to hold SoI and butler accountable.
And warn others of the dark sides of the group. This is the common goal that unites us.
SoI is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you will get when you enter the butler vortex.

To me SIF was a gateway drug to the other krishna groups, which, while going more in depth philosophically, often created an even more toxic web to get out of. Again this is my personal perspective. I'm here to discuss how and what made me feel that way, but I also may have outgrown my qualms with just butler. I am trying to show it all starts with Butlers flavor of the month and often snowballs from there. Not for everyone tho. Many live as what they consider "devotees", but it means little as they're just happy with belonging to a community, donate some money and chant here and there as it suits them. Security blanket bhaktas. Basically what all religions offer. They just like the curry flavor. A religion that makes them feel self righteousness, but they never go deeper. And thank the Gos for that IMO. Everyone loves a religion that says they have no hard and fast rules (a line we all heard as devotees). Then you find out they do and the honeymoon is OVER.

Rules and discipline are great but if they don't teach you to think for yourself, trust yourself, they have not succeeded in much more than temporary distraction and oppression. Or worse, automotons.

There are many complexities that come with these cults.
Every single person is on their own trip and their own reality.
This forum is no longer a place I can enter without a shield or second gessing myself.
Even though we are total strangers, we give ourselves freedom to attack each other.
My massive arrogance, anger is mostly directed toward butler and the abuse that goes on in the cult. It has never been my intention to lord over others in this forum.
Unfortunately my recent fringe experiences have shaken me to the core. And made it so I cannot easily relate to others and this reality.
I had to use arrogance and anger to find the courage to trash a person I considered the only pure representative of god for years.
A person I loved more than my own dad.
And also betray friends who still care about me even after I crushed their idols.
I have never claimed to be Haridas Thakura. Just another effed up ex cult member who is trying to survive. An Ahole who knows they are an Ahole.
I did not have the luxury to rebuild a much nicer life.
After 2 years of total lockdowns isolations, there are days I miss my old friends.
The few good friends who would have never let me down.
Please keep in mind that this forum is for people who are dealing with very heavy issues.
I myself attacked wirlwind after he started arguing about the philosophy and saying I was preaching atheism.
I understand the courage it takes to be vulnerable.
I truly regret it, because at the end of the day, he is just another wounded soul.
Before I start gettimg more hints about my superiority complex, I will do all a favor and let humility reign in here.
Just let people be. Some are still interested in krishna, some not.
None of us had the same experiences. Who cares if some still like krishna?
This is a free space and not a cult.
I will no longer allow anyone to directly criticize me in here directly or indirectly.
Even though one should accept constructive criticism, I am not looking for a free psych, spiritual and personality evaluation.
I got plenty of that at the cult and my own demonic family. I have enough reserve for the rest of this life.
I know my demons very well. Trust that I know that I am not the kind of person others adore.
It is so easy to avoid people we do not like in here.
No ex devotee can come in here without a degree of arrogance after all the fear that was installed in us.
Thank you all for putting up with my BS. Appologies again for my attitude.
Wishing all the best in healing and calling out the non sensse.
All my SoI friends. Thanks again for all the efforts, courage, honesty.
You are all amazing and fearless.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is "The air of life raised under the cover of
> the skull."?

There are accounts of former SIF members - moving in the inner space of the body in a half-dream where awareness is narrowed, but it is not an OBE and it is not a dream. There are such descriptions of former SIF members - and they were regularly repeated. Additionally, in a variant, with the experience of moving along the hypothetical spine. Of course, this can be considered a schizophrenic experience and unconfirmed for others, but there are such reports. It is puzzling in itself that the practitioners of bhakti-yoga did not experience pastimes such as the spiritual meadow and cowherd boys, but experiences of this type.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a free space and not a cult.
> I will no longer allow anyone to directly
> criticize me in here directly or indirectly.


The forum and this thread are associated with deep experiences and there are tragedies and suicides in the history of the cult. Reading this thread, you can see a variety of experiences, but you can see seriousness, e.g. in descriptions of psychological, deeply spiritual, conscious experiences. Where people with spiritual motivation joined the cult, sacrificed their lives, implemented teachings, experienced duality, etc., and then, somewhere at the stage of appearance of courage, but with great reserve, e.g. fear of offences, they tried to convey their experiences, etc. Everyone is an individuality - but somehow there was a chance to help others or to be released. Especially when members of the cult, using techniques based on inducing fear, deny everything, including falsifying the tradition to which they allegedly belong.

Thank You all for Your courage & deepness. And search for the Truth backed by your sacrifice in your life. In the end, you could chase money, swim on a beautiful beach, not take care of smaller ones and eat daily cookies ....

So i run.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2022 02:50AM by Culthusiast.

Another example of the precision in applying concepts to Hindu philosophy, following the Gaudiya tradition.

[www.facebook.com]

"Immerse yourself in the sounds of yoga," is written on the banner.

What are "sounds of yoga"?

In the Sanskrit dictionary "sound", when combined with other words to form complex concepts, can be checked here:

[www.learnsanskrit.cc]

"Show more results".

Only 4 entries (3 times the same):
svarayoga sound-combination
svarayoga sound-combination
svarayoga sound-combination
samyagvarNaprayoga right use of sounds

Proper andpeculiar for Vedanta are japa, kirtana, and sankirtana.

Yoga is associated with "pratyahara" - widthdrawal.

[www.learnsanskrit.cc]

[Yoga: withdrawal of senses from external objects]

One position indeed is "sound".

Who creates a mess? Why?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2022 04:40AM by Culthusiast.

I just have to clarify something very important. In case many more in here felt I am just an arrogant, annoying krishna fanatic who knows nothing more.
There are possibly many more who have judged me in here.
I was told that this is the ONLY path I know. That would urely make me look even more arrogant.
How the heck does anybody in here know my spiritual resume? And how was it determined that this is the only path I know?
You think that there is nothing more to me other than me posting in here. That this is all that I know and all that I am. Just an ex butler mentally ill, angry patient.
I have started my journey at 6 years old. I have been on many paths. And krishna is not the only one whatsoever.
I never had any teachers before butler and always been internally guided.
I did not come to these conclusions lightly. I know the spiritual market quite well. Thank you very much.
I have been down pretty much all rabbit holes possible.
I am an extremely serious researcher of truth and how this reality operates.
This is all I do from the moment I get up to the moment I sleep.
Nothing more matters to me than to find out much bigger answers.
Explored many religious and non religious avenues and will never stop exploring.
We are all individuals. And every path and every deity relates to us in a different way.
Anyway, stop judging people you do not know. It is garbage. Pure and utter garbage. It serves no purpose in this forum.
Just know that I can be as rude and direct as anybody else. But confronting total strangers is a waste of energy. It is not what I came for.
If anybody has an issue with me or my posts, it is very unfortunate. Because my intentions have only been to help bring light to the cult and nothing more.
My main goal is to protect others from falling into traps speaking about how I fell into traps.
I owe noone anything, but I had to clarify that I gain nothing from aggradizing kirshna consciousness. There are many aspect of the path that bothers me.
But for some reasons or other it has been the one path that related to me on a very metaphysical way (the most).
Judge me as you wish. It is not really my problem. I have no other agenda than exposing the abuse of butler and going deeper.
And looking at me and my post JUST as arrogant is the same non sense as looking at any path as JUST BS.
Like in all that I have written in here there is not even one positive thing?
Not one helpful darn insight?
In that case I guess I must truly suck big time. Lol!
Now you see that butler is not so ordinary.
The guy makes my arrogance look like sainthood. He hqs used and abused thousands for 40 years.
Yet everybody worships him. Noone would dare look at him or judge him.
So you can see how wonderful it is to be butler. The most loved narcissist on the planet.
Maybe we can all learn unconditional love from SoI devotees.
Peace. Keep it civil and kind. There is enough pain that comes with leaving a cult.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was told that this is the ONLY path I know. That
> would urely make me look even more arrogant.

What about Jesus Christ and the 3 sanyasis? General versus new specific rules. After all, the Bible says about Jesus:

The Son has the divine power to give life and to judge (John 5:21–26; John 6:40; John 8:16; John 17:2). Through his death, resurrection, and ascension the Son is glorified by the Father (John 17:1–24), but it is not a glory that is thereby essentially enhanced.

And what about Guru Nanak?
[en.wikipedia.org]

And the God who appeared before him was not like the Hindus said and not like the Muslims said ...

What about the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna says that when the moral principles fall, he comes personally or in A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's commentary writes about God sons or prophets as far as I can remember.

Each sect emphasizes the exclusivity of salvation through its own institution and organization. Classic move.

SIF / SoI too - the only pure devotee is Chris Butler. Meanwhile A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami (Parampara!) Wrote:

[vanisource.org]

Quote

Regarding Siddhaswarupananda, these things which you have heard are simply rumor and there is no substance. Siddhaswarupa does not want to take disciples, neither he should have disciples while I am alive. That is the process. I have never said that Siddhasvarupa is a pure devotee.* That is simply concoction. Now I am going to India in few weeks and I shall stop at Hawaii and take Siddhaswarupananda to India for training him up properly.

Hoping this meets you in good health,

Your ever well-wisher,
SP Signature.png
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

> Like in all that I have written in here there is
> not even one positive thing?


They actually have a big influence on you because you care. It is obvious that you will be labeled as offensive, unclean, and so on in the cult.

But their schematic responses to objective evidence, statements, or quotations from the scriptures refuting the unwritten doctrine of SIF / SoI's "uniqueness and exclusivity" are in themselves proof that they have the problem. A big problem.

> So you can see how wonderful it is to be butler.

Living at home in thin foil? No. Tons of disciples who burn through millions of dollars? No. 20 chefs with 25 dishes that are no better than eating from a Chinese restaurant? My God...

Truth Wins,

Who do you feel is attacking you on this forum?

There are perspectives and opinions, but that is to be expected. Experiences diverge.

Your testimony is as useful as it offers a clear insight into what happened to you and why you felt it was damaging. That is all. As long as that is clearly stated, no matter how many people disagree or find it "out there" it has little bearing.

Cultthusiest and DeWatcher and myself tend to discuss things in siddhantic depth. They do so from an attitude favorable to Vaishnavism and Gaudiya Siddhanta and I reject it all as cumbersome nonsense. This is our opinions. Obviously this is not a place to preach siddhanta, but if a person is able to use such rhetoric to show how Butler's group is WAY off siddhantically, well, that's one avenue to shine the light on discrepancies in that cult.

Arrogance is a human emotion. It arises out of the psychological hats we all wear. Sometimes we are the victim, rescuer, or persecutor. All humans play this dance in conflict situations. The goal is to recognize that you are playing such a role and acknowledge its usefulness to both yourself and those you have influence over.

I don't like this group on many levels. I feel it makes scrambled eggs out of people's minds. The deeper you get into it the more your perception of reality is twisted and "advancement" or "enlightenment" is characterized by what amounts to madness.

Reaity has many expressions. Some are within our rational control others are not. You got out of a cult that both offered you some comforts and stability and also caused you great internal disruption and disfunction. What parts offered you stability? Can you practice those parts without it leading back to the cult? If not, which was the case for me, then eventually you have to choose. Why did it not work for me to simply take some parts and not others? Because I would be living once again in a state of cognitive dissonance. I cannot subscribe to a philosophy that stipulates that the only way I can make any progress and true advancement on the path is by surrendering to a guru that I do not feel is an enlightened human. I also cannot simply chant or do deity worship when the scriptures dictate that such practices are useless or even damaging spiritually if not done under the guidance of a guru. I also cannot in all good faith accept all Puranic and Vedic lore as literal fact. I also do not agree with statements by certain guru's in the "disciplic succession". And finally, I have little to go on to accept that there is a personal god. A world spirit, brahman, universal energy—sure, I can wrap my head around that. So that is what made sense to me. And so I needed to reject that which was not functional to my case. If there is a god, certainly he is not sitting around worrying about such human conundrums or damning anyone to eternal hells and so forth.

Ultimately my focus is on what is within my control. Which is not much. Under my control is how I chose to react to the world around me. That can be with reactionary mindless anger or frustration or defeat, or with the acceptance that I don't control what others think or do and I can only control what I think and do. Under my control is to look at this cult objectively and try to really get to the bottom of what I personally perceive is the mechanics at work, why I feel those dynamics are wrong, abusive or ripe for abuse.

That is all.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cultthusiest and DeWatcher and myself tend to
> discuss things in siddhantic depth. They do so
> from an attitude favorable to Vaishnavism and
> Gaudiya Siddhanta and I reject it all as
> cumbersome nonsense. This is our opinions.

True, Vaishawism is interesting and worthwhile for me. On the other hand, aspects such as archaisms, such as the gross classification to "candala", cannot be ignored - which is contemptuous and offensive. There are people who do not meet the formal (actual?) Varnaasrama criteria, but they do not eat dogs because they are vegetarians. Another aspect is the question of women's initiations - a practice that goes against the spiritual great-grandfather of Parampara. Which rules are ok and which aren't? Regardless of what and how it may be considered "naimittika dharma" - it is not acceptable to reject the foundations - that is, the Master-Disciple relationship. SiF is breaking foundations.

> I don't like this group on many levels. I feel it
> makes scrambled eggs out of people's minds. The
> deeper you get into it the more your perception of
> reality is twisted and "advancement" or
> "enlightenment" is characterized by what amounts
> to madness.

Thanks to patiently collected reports, we know fragments of Kasia Socha's last hours of life, who committed suicide when the retreat was still taking place. Moving away from the group, but still looking for friendship and her reactions to fanatical behavior of cult members. Hours before the tragedy ..

Sir Balakhilya das, do you want to face it? And to cry again with crocodile false tears ...Waste of time. Only sunyata with brick wall can help. Or with asphalt with a roller.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2022 07:20PM by Culthusiast.