Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hoax108 I have been going through the novel worthy
> old posts.I know I will always miss my friends,
> teachers and the very good memories.

Sure there are many nice people. Very devoted. I remember one of my friends. Never I heard one bad word from him. Talented, humorous. Careful. They told him to be a monkey and he became a monkey. A great monkey. They made him become a deer he was the best deer. They made him be a harrier, he became a harrier.

> However after
> everything I know now, I am glad that I am
> blacklisted.


"Blacklistme too"

As i wrote before - did not learn anything. Party schema of blacklisting people. There was suicides - no problem, ladies will continue their stupid holy game.

But they ask - why are there no new people? Why don't they stay with us? Or there are few of them left and the others leave.

Let the saintly DaWatcher remind you of 2 stories. One about a brahmana who was not taken care of in the congregation so the final offering was not complete. And the other Polish story, with you Sweeties as actors, an initiated Brahman who could chant all night, came to a public lecture with bundles. And you know, a bit sick. Gruesome but nice. And you guys - what a great offering - fucked him out of that lecture.

And that's it! No need for a deer.

Lublin guy with one eye. Cyclop. Sometimes you can see when you read your sweet blonde's posts on mantra.pl, you teach zaraturstrianism. Ahuramazda and Aryman. And with this cyclops you go more into Greek myths.

> I cannot be emotionally drawn back to
> the group. I know many who return after 10 years
> of absence. There are way too many lies,
> contradictions, secrets, hypocrisy...

Money. "Where is the f*****ng money". Follow the money.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2021 05:36PM by DaWatcher.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a very interesting video that I am
> reposting. I forgot which person posted it in the
> forum. Sorry I cannot give credit to that person.
>
>
> [m.youtube.com]

Wow, great video. I don't think I have seen that before.

That short video really explains a lot. That CB is and always has done things "his way", what he is teaching is not Vaishnavism, he was never obedient to Bhaktivedanta, etc. and on and on.

Quite a sad situation.

Hoax 108 I have never felt more cheated. I spent years loving CB more than my material father.
I put up with all the bullying from our angry “center” leader and callousness of devotees just because of him and the blue boy.
Now I know that I was relating to the good side of the guru. That there is also a dark side. One that potentially knew/knows about illicit money making that gets a disciple in prison.
Was the person I trusted the most, an abuser himself and the root cause of such a dusfunctional group? It seems like it.
I cannot believe how I was brainwashed to think that the whole obsession with diseases and germs was normal.
That all Isckon devotees were to be avoided like the plague while there are many extremely kind and non fanatical ACB disciples out there.
I gave my everything to this covert cult for so many years. All based on a lack of transparency. I knew in my heart that the atmosphere of fear sucked.
I just thought that we were all spiritually sick except the PURE “bogus” devotee of the SUPREME.
The senior teachers, everybody bows down to, are in it too. Helping to present that perfect image. They themsleves under the strong Siddha hypnosis.
Never questioning, doubting. Just reinforcing the unjustified faith of the poor sincere souls.
I know that the process and the mantras are so powerful that peopoe still feel happy, sense of security, peace....
The right hand path where sentiments (emotions) cloud the reasoning. We are told time and time again that it is our mind, it is our mind, it is our mind that causes doubts and trouble.
When the mind comes up with critical thinking, instead of listening, we grab the beads and chant more. Shut up offesive mind! You are getting me in trouble!
The red flags are always cancelled by the FEAR of offenses.
We don’t need guru to put a paper bag on our heads. We ourselves put that paper bad on our heads. One that allows us not to see the abuse and craziness for what it is. Another paper bag on the heart so that we cannot listen to the voice that confirms our doubts.
Keeping that lie alive is a group effort. I take responsibility for having particpated in that spiritual scam for many years.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The right hand path where sentiments (emotions)
> cloud the reasoning. We are told time and time
> again that it is our mind, it is our mind, it is
> our mind that causes doubts and trouble.

Only the mind does the problem... Yes, i know the narrative. Dear friends, there are deficiencies in sankhya philosophy.

There was a story quoted here about a brahmacari visiting a divorcee's house where one of the former leaders had been staying overnight. You know, the rules of brahmacaria in SIF Poland centers. Man and woman alone in the room and there will be a scandal. Or questions for married couples and discussion at meetings like whether they spend more time khm.. or chanting. Well, it was described lighter...

In any case, after years of brahmacaria, as an ex-member, he confessed that when he visited the house of the divorcee in the morning before the planned operation, it was not aired and there was sex in the air.

Is that a problem with the mind? Not exactly. We are also dealing here with the senses and senses of action. The nose, especially the nose in effect, and the genitals in cause.

More sankhya friends ... More sankhya and interpretation would be much easier..

If people want to get a glimpse of the usual drama that goes on in SOI refrer to page 231.
A disciple’s letter to CB explaining why he had to secretly seek the PERSONAL association of BV Narayana Maharaja.
He explains why he could not honestly confess it to other devotees.
That when they found out, one devotee threatened to beat him up.
He was also told that if he turned his back, he would go to hell. My guess is that he escaped hell.
Please people let us not put these things under the rug. This very sincre, kind disciple was treated like a criminal for longing for the association of a very well respected “Guru”. A Vaishnava who associated closely with ACB.
How did they deal with the bully who wanted to beat up another devotee?
Was he reprimanded or considered a hero for fanatically defending the only one worthy of worship on the planet. The one and only Jagad Guru!
All the letters that weere sent back and forth in order to make sure that they do not “steal” another memeber of SOI. Omg so much drama.
Just because they lost a good servant and messed up with his SERVICE.
The person does not even matter much. It is his SERVICE that matters.
Where is free will? What did that person do that was so wrong?
If people cannot see that these are unacceptable fear and guilt trip tactics, then by all means enjoy the spiritual blindness.
That was 20 years ago. I am sure the same thing will happen today.
They are fortunate that these things are kept secret.
People open your eyes! Nothing is NORMAL about all of this. This is not spiritual life. Yes there are many good things about the group but the overt and covert toxicity outweighs the positve aspects.
Taking a break for now. I feel I need a year to digest everything I read in here.
P.S: Dawatcher you don’t really want to be blacklisted. Keep your distances. That is all you need. I am not proud of wearing the blacklist badge.
It was meant to happen that way.

It's better you got out now then years down the line when it's pretty much impossible. Most folks who do leave later on just go jumping from one guru to another. It's a sick cycle of child-like dependency.

This is a relevant article:

[harpers.org]

I could go on and on about the many drawbacks and issues with this and other groups like it. It's a mental circus. But yes, crippling you with self deprecation and guilt is a top function of most cults. While mainstream religions are essentially large cults, the dynamic with smaller groups like this is really hard to break as it leaves you with the feeling that you were somehow special and chosen by god/guru to receive some great "gift". In actually there is nothing profound about the chanting and mantras. It's fun to sing and dance with other people. It's nice to get together and eat good food and surround yourself with happy vibes and messages. It's when they vibes and messages become crossed and tangled with obvious ego and power trips that it loses it's effect and leaves you questioning what the heck you did wrong: What offense, what bad association, etc etc... You spend your whole life second guessing normal life events and experiences. And you rely heavily on the cult for all the answers to life's problems. You see old times who seem "happy" and you see that they are no more "advanced" then anyone else. In fact, they often are more materialistic, absorbed in money or politics and sense gratification and yet they seem "happier" and more content.

The whole thing is a sad affair. Run and don't look back. Take what you feel is of some intrinsic functional value and leave the rest of the mind garbage behind. And trust me, there is a LOT of mind garbage. Everything ranging from the philosophy to rituals/traditions and myths. It all amounts to a feel good fairy tale with little more than naive idealism at it's center.

Be well friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2021 08:24AM by IanKoviak.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But yes, crippling you with self
> deprecation and guilt is a top function of most
> cults.

There is also another pattern of the party hierarchy, observed during the last year, for example. Even in the midst of a pandemic. Locally in Poland it manifested itself as follows.

The American leader (mentioned earlier) organizes a webinar for the chosen 40. This, of course, is over a decade after the time when there are allegedly no local leaders, centers, and hierarchies. Kind of decentralization.

It is controversial, because the sheep from the distant circle were worked to the bone, they gave their whole lives and with their sacrifice and devotion, this artificial mechanism of dividing into a closer circle and a further circle is at least hurtful.

But the leader of Hawaii does it. Psychologically, the closer circle feels selected, and the sheep from the second circle have a sense of rejection, lack of appreciation, and there is also an element of admiration for the chosen ones from the first circle.

But it doesn't stop there. Then a webinar is organized, where more sheep are already invited. The sheep are relieved, although they are not in the first circle, they are nevertheless chosen, sanctified, etc.

Information obtained in the program "squirrel reports".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2021 03:02PM by DaWatcher.

And a story and a statement (from a lawsuit) from over a decade ago (in Polish):

[forum.bhaktijoga.pl]

Quote translated:

Quote

Balakhilya das (Johnny Midget) is one of the senior teaching Gurus (the so-called siksa gurus) of IWoT "Mission Chaitania", who is responsible to Jagad Guru Chris Butler for teaching in the region of all Europe and Asia. Balakhilya das came to Poland at the turn of August / September 2009 and ordered all the followers of IWoT "Mission of Chaitania", even my friends, to cut off all relations, contacts and acquaintances with me. The followers were categorically banned from talking to me and banned from reading any information and explanations from me, and even apologizing, they were also banned from answering phone calls, accessing websites on which Gaudiya Vishnuism is promoted, etc.

Until Balakhilya das (Johnny Midget) arrived, everything was fine, I was in touch with my friends from the IWoT "Chaitania Mission", we were visiting each other, we had a warm relationship. However, after his arrival in Poland, everyone turned their backs on me. After some time, I found out that he was spreading false information about me and forbid all believers from reading any corrections he thought I would send in the future. He spread absolutely made-up and fingered stories about me among members, turned them against me, forbade them to talk or correspond with me, and threatened to expel from the IWoT "Mission of Chaitania" any believer who would not obey this prohibition. Balakhilya das, also ordered the dismissal of any person from IWoT "Mission Chaitania" members if they received any initiation, including Brahman (priestly) initiation, from the mainstream Gaudiya Vishnuism (Gaudiya Math) Guru of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Goswami. Earlier in my history, I had experienced similar treatment of people, followers of the IWoT "Mission of Chaitania", who had accepted the second (brahmin) initiation at ISKCON. As far as I know, after this situation, to this day, several people have lost their jobs due to religious discrimination by the IWoT "Mission of Chaitania".

Thank you Ian. I realize now that no amount of spiritual bliss is worth living in constant doubt and fear.
Dawatcher, as I was about to retire you gave me new material. lol!
Just looked at the page from Poland. I think that I must add this important part.
Again it is proof that some of the members can get dangerous under the influence of fanaticism and loyalty to their “Master”.
I myself ruthlessly cut a very good friend off because she turned her back on CB.
I am grateful that my mind is free from that program.


Here is the quote (translated by google):


“When it was revealed that I had received brahminical initiation from a genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava guru, Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa guru of the "Chaitania Mission" and his subordinate teachers forbade all their followers to have any contact with me. Then I started to be attacked by the followers of the "Mission of Chaitania", I was accused of betraying their organization, betraying their guru, I was threatened with DEATH and my wife was threatened with DEATH. I was getting a lot of phone calls and anonymous emails during this period. Some members sent me very unpleasant letters. There were also positive emails from members of the “Mission of Chaitania", but they ended quickly when the teachers of their organization found out about it.”

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dawatcher, as I was about to retire you gave me
> new material. lol!

The material is controversial in that the author, Mirek Mazur, actually received the second initiation and it was strange and naive to hide it or to count in this sangha / community that it would be accepted, etc.

On the other hand, firing people from work due to differences in religious beliefs is a violation of Polish law - the Constitution, etc.


> “When it was revealed that I had received
> brahminical initiation from a genuine Gaudiya
> Vaishnava guru, Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda
> Paramahamsa guru of the "Chaitania Mission" and
> his subordinate teachers forbade all their
> followers to have any contact with me. Then I
> started to be attacked by the followers of the
> "Mission of Chaitania", I was accused of betraying
> their organization, betraying their guru, I was
> threatened with DEATH and my wife was threatened
> with DEATH. I was getting a lot of phone calls and
> anonymous emails during this period. Some members
> sent me very unpleasant letters. There were also
> positive emails from members of the “Mission of
> Chaitania", but they ended quickly when the
> teachers of their organization found out about
> it.”

There's another story:

[forum.bhaktijoga.pl]

Here's an excerpt that relates to the story you've touched upon as well.

In the link above you will find the confirmation as well.

More articles:
[forum.bhaktijoga.pl]

Here is the evidence for the aspect i touched upon - the etiquette. And of course - the case You have mentioned:

[forum.bhaktijoga.pl]

Translation:

Quote

I am writing this letter in response to numerous e-mails we now receive from various members of the Chaitanya Mission such as Acharya das, Mada Mohan dasa, Sukadeva dasi, Gopala dasi Tamayo, Yogesvar dasa, Lalita Gopala dasi , Paramahamsa dasa, and many others. The purpose of this letter is to clear up some misunderstandings that have arisen regarding Mahabhava dasa's alleged "agitation" and "reinitiation". I hope that any unnecessary sectarian (divisive) moods that are enemies of spiritual progress will be cooled down, and thus all interested parties will be able to find something positive from this seemingly unfavorable event.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2021 09:46PM by DaWatcher.