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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 15, 2020 06:27PM

CultKid85 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A second answer would be the fear, driven by
> constant reinforcement of the idea that the ‘pure
> devotee’ is rare, of missing out and being stuck
> in hell.

The methods of creating idols were visible in the group. They are still visible today. It is not logical. For if a "pure devotee" is rare, then isolationism is unnecessary because being "self-effulgent" will automatically stand out and attract spiritually interested people to him.

The concept of "only one pure devotee" also contradicts the words of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, who wrote and emphasized in letters i.e. to Tusta Krishna das, that each of his disciples could be "pure devotee".

If you look at the latest webinar of Mr. Midget - there is a form of creation still taking place. There is an internet "webinar" and the group members express their approval, admiration and thanks by commenting (feel artificial), while the subject matter is basic, the same as last 20-ty years and generally recruiting type.

Also interesting, Balakhilya das introduces himself as Balakhilya das, while according to the words: he is an initiated Brahmin, additionally by another Guru.

[forum.bhaktijoga.pl]

Quote

Drogi Balakhilya prabhu ty takze masz inicjacje diksza (braminska) od innego guru niz Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa Maharadza.

Quote
Translation
Dear Balakhilya prabhu, you also have a diksa (brahmin) initiation from a guru other than Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa Maharaja.

Members of the former SIF-Poland (now many different associations) do not know about this.

In the link above, the words are also present:

Quote

Quote: "Generally, followers of the Gaudiya Math and I know Mirek is doing this openly claim that their guru teaches a higher truth to Vaisnava than Srila Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa Prabhupada, AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and other Vaisnava Gurus. This is both disrespectful, untrue and offensive. Vaishnava Aparadha. We have all heard lectures on judge placement, and this is exactly the situation. It is offensive to claim that Guru Vaisnavas are in higher and lower positions. "

Mr. Midget negatively evaluates anyone "putting himself in the position of a judge", and at the same time he clearly ascribes the behavior of the entire Gaudiya Math, although as Mirek (Madhai das / Madhavananda das) emphasized - the Gaudiya Math is federated.

This all needs to be remembered because leaders and activists are not in the habit of apologizing. When confronted with hard facts, they find people showing it uncomfortable, offensive, and so on.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 06:34PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: CultKid85 ()
Date: September 15, 2020 09:03PM

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I guess my first question to you is, aside from the cult school in Baguio that others have already talked about on this forum.

On this topic, no, I didn’t attend the school, however, I did go to the Philippines. There are retreats that occur which are held in the Philippines and there is out-reach (proselytizing). I am aware there was a school for boys there, but it was small in scope and expensive.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Butler has one foot in the proverbial grave but I doubt it

The common idea shared regarding this is that Mr. Butler did Yoga and ascended out of the top of his head and returned so many times that he damaged his body. He is now reclusive and has strict quarantine rules enforced around him.

Culthusiast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CultKid85 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > A second answer would be the fear, driven by
> > constant reinforcement of the idea that the
> ‘pure
> > devotee’ is rare, of missing out and being
> stuck
> > in hell.

> The methods of creating idols were visible in the group. They are still visible today. It is not logical. For if a "pure devotee" is rare, then isolationism is unnecessary because being "self-effulgent" will automatically stand out and attract spiritually interested people to him.

> The concept of "only one pure devotee" also contradicts the words of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, who wrote and emphasized in letters i.e. to Tusta Krishna das, that each of his disciples could be "pure devotee".

Like most groups, 95% of the followers do not read their scripture. It is social group with some divinely ordained mandate. There is also a lot of fear to motivate people to stick around just in case they miss out.

The senior disciples would talk about how Mr. Butler would float on his feet, that he had a radiant glow, each story progressively getting more detached from reality. You see, one has to have divine sight to witness the effulgence of the spiritual master.

As for the Europe stuff, I don’t know much about the scene there so can’t really comment on what they are doing.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 15, 2020 11:18PM

> VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Butler has one foot in the proverbial grave but
> I doubt it
>
> The common idea shared regarding this is that Mr.
> Butler did Yoga and ascended out of the top of his
> head and returned so many times that he damaged
> his body. He is now reclusive and has strict
> quarantine rules enforced around him.

Some of the old faith confessed to LSD.

> VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Like most groups, 95% of the followers do not read
> their scripture. It is social group with some
> divinely ordained mandate. There is also a lot of
> fear to motivate people to stick around just in
> case they miss out.

The narrative that appeared in Poland in this context was that "the enemies of SIF Poland" go to the worst, ie they use the Holy Scriptures to attack SIF-Poland subtly. It's such a trick that if someone in SIF-Poland did something inconsistently with the scriptures, then "a devotee so can" but if it has been actively pointed out, it is a terrible offense to use the Holy Scriptures in this way to show errors.


> The senior disciples would talk about how Mr.
> Butler would float on his feet, that he had a
> radiant glow, each story progressively getting
> more detached from reality. You see, one has to
> have divine sight to witness the effulgence of the
> spiritual master.

From what I remember, the Grand Vizier was talking about how the Master suddenly disappeared. I don't know the account of levitation or shining.

Importantly, the Bhagavad Gita addresses this point - Arjuna asks Sri Krishna how one can know a devotee. In response, there is no question of any superphysical phenomenon in the form of levitation or shining.

> As for the Europe stuff, I don’t know much about
> the scene there so can’t really comment on what
> they are doing.

One of the members once said "and there are still many things you don't know." His life is in ruins.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 15, 2020 11:31PM

And the biggest fear is: "copies". Yes we know, yes we have.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: September 16, 2020 03:48AM

It's great that people continue to come out of the woodwork and corroborate the reality of Butler, his cult and history.

I'm blown away how many are, in this day and age, still so deeply caught up in his sham. They protect him, cower in front of him. This weak, sickly, lazy excuse for a human. He who has used everyone to his whims and taught devotion through fear and anger. He lives in complete isolation like a mental patient. In his wake he has left crippled and imprisoned minds.

Someone HAS to have access to more of this man's taped and transcribed lectures we grew up hearing. It goes deep. Kids heard this and not as passing news but under full conviction that they were hearing the most profound knowledge.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: CultKid85 ()
Date: September 16, 2020 11:24AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's great that people continue to come out of the
> woodwork and corroborate the reality of Butler,
> his cult and history.
> 
> I'm blown away how many are, in this day and age,
> still so deeply caught up in his sham. They
> protect him, cower in front of him. This weak,
> sickly, lazy excuse for a human. He who has used
> everyone to his whims and taught devotion through
> fear and anger. He lives in complete isolation
> like a mental patient. In his wake he has left
> crippled and imprisoned minds.
> 
> Someone HAS to have access to more of this man's
> taped and transcribed lectures we grew up hearing.
> It goes deep. Kids heard this and not as passing
> news but under full conviction that they were
> hearing the most profound knowledge.


The transcripts aren’t particularly hard to acquire, however, the tapes and video lectures are much further and far between. I don’t know what use the transcripts would be without the taped content. The tapes are fairly heavily controlled mainly because Mr. Butler has nothing but disparaging remarks for women/LGBT/Christians alike. It is a side effect of the lectures being little more than rants.

He also doesn’t give many Lectures anymore, he hasn’t for the last 5+ years. At one point the Waimanalo gatherings moved online to a streaming platform before dropping off altogether. He is 75 years old now and ages saps a person of vigor. Luckily for him, he has people willing to step in and take on the roll of being the lecturer. They are also old as well, I doubt the organization carries on very far without him.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: September 17, 2020 02:28AM

The organization will fall apart to complete pieces once he is gone. Just as his spiritual Masters organization did and his spiritual Masters spiritual Masters organization did. The result is a diluted soup of nothing but a naive western attempt at cultural appropriation of Indian heritage. In the end, a few generations of kids get completely mind warped and a fraction ever know a semblance of a normal life outside the group. Total isolation.

Some say that Siddha das, wai Lana's son will emerge as a leader in the group. But that's not likely. My hunch is it will continue in a similar fashion to ISKCON and the like, where the founding guru takes the mythical jesus role for generations to come. Those who reject the leadership hierarchy will be vilified and faction groups will arise splintering off into a thousand offshoots claiming authority and authenticity to butler

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 17, 2020 02:45AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some say that Siddha das, wai Lana's son will
> emerge as a leader in the group.

You mean, since the Guru is not appointed or elected, it will now mean that he inherits the spiritual vision like the son of the king's inherits throne, and thus becomes a guru through the succession of leadership?

What tradition it is? Maya Nidra? What about initiation for new clergy? On boat? With taser? With with a filipino witch?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 02:58AM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: CultKid85 ()
Date: September 17, 2020 12:29PM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some say that Siddha das, wai Lana's son will
> emerge as a leader in the group. But that's not
> likely. My hunch is it will continue in a similar
> fashion to ISKCON and the like, where the founding
> guru takes the mythical jesus role for generations
> to come. Those who reject the leadership hierarchy
> will be vilified and faction groups will arise
> splintering off into a thousand offshoots claiming
> authority and authenticity to butler


Siddha Ballard? I doubt it, he's not charismatic like his step-father. They tried to make him into a movie star (funny how the Mr. Butler's step-son had so much effort focused on him) but he is wooden and bland. I believe you can still find some of the KarmaKula stuff online, it was terrible then and cost millions to produce and shoot.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: September 17, 2020 11:51PM

Exactly. It cost millions. Millions from where? His poor disciples? Raising millions to satisfy thier gurus whims and proclivity as a film maker or political orchestrator. It's the furthest thing anyone joining the group thought they would be asked to do when joining the group. Those born into it know no other life than to operate within the whims of butler.

All of the wai lana and karma kula stuff was atrocious and sad. All the manpower, time and money to slather the web with 100s of websites dedicated to butler to clean up his image. Whipping a grown man's ass.

Anyway, I'm sure you know more, saw more and can testify to more. Thanks for adding to the thread. Be well.

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