VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tulsi Gabbard has refused to drop out of the race that
> has already dropped her.

She's asking for more credit...

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are many non-religious and fanatical
> organizations that feed the Homeless and do all
> sorts of Social Work without relying on the
> dictates of a crooked spiritual leader. There are
> many organizations who do all sorts of Wonderful
> social work that don't have at their Center a
> bigoted homophobic narcissist who rules with fear.
> There are many people who have a vibrant spiritual
> life, family and community without paying
> Allegiance to a self-centered dictator.

Any form of support for those in need is positive if it saves someone in a difficult situation. "Even charity in the mode of passion" - made with interesting motivation.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are
> many spiritual leaders who don't ask of their
> followers to send their kids two overseas
> religious indoctrination schools so that they can
> abused their followers time and energy.

True. Criminal.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are
> many enlightened teachers who don't use fear and
> hate speech to orient their followers on a Pious
> path.

In Poland there was a speech "asano-comparative-anal". As one of the former leaders put it publicly, "you are sitting in your ass again". Of course, it could have been kind motivation, such that "there is no bhava in it". Some, in turn, think differently, but both of these leading ideological trends somehow do not suit me.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are many orthodox traditional
> spiritual leaders who don't deviate from the
> traditions and Heritage of their predecessors and
> path to sell a diluted and disingenuous version of
> some spiritual teachings.

Yoga Nidra is not part of Gaudiya philosophy. This is an important issue, because this aspect was raised when a former member of SIF Poland and later initiated in another sanga (deceased), was accused in some aspect of undermining the membership of SIF Poland in the Gaudiya Parampara line.

My answer (unwanted, of course) to Happy Man would be this: Yoga Nidra is not part of Gaudiya Vaishnava.

Can give You link to forum.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are many humble
> and simple spiritual teachers out there for not
> asking their disciples to maintain their lavish
> lifestyle on the beaches of Hawaii in a germ-free
> bubble. Butler is not giving anything profound to
> his followers. If anything, he is engaging them in
> unnecessary involvement in politics and deception.

How does this relate to the cited instructions of A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami?

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is nothing spiritual or wholly or Pious in
> thousands of Butler disciples mobilizing, on his
> order, around the world, push the agenda I'm a
> politician that he approves. That's not democracy.

Foreign attempts to influence elections are a matter of action by the relevant security services.

But Sweeties from Poland influenced locally not only political voting.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Little children should not be
> forced to bow down just some man without ever
> having put in the commitment and rigor it takes to
> make such decisions.

True. Freedom of choice. Not theoretical. Practical.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tulsi gabbard does not have
> children, yet, I am curious if she would ever send
> them to such a school as she was forced to go to?
> The fact is that her parents were naive and
> foolish in doing so.

Father has 5 children....This is the "samoa demographic patriotism".

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only logical, or a logical reason that any of
> these devotees are doing what they are doing it's
> because they fell, Hook Line & Sinker, for butlers
> ultimate offering which is the silly notion that
> they are all going to go to some transcendental
> planet and frolic with a blue flute playing God
> and His cows.

This is their freedom of choice. They can believe in Radha Krisha, Sitha Ram, Jehovah & Asherah, Jehovah without Asherah, Buddha, Guan-Yin, ...

As they want, they can even believe in intergalactic energy mycelium, worship earthly magnetohydrodynamo, life on the moon Titan or Europa (so cold), in helpless intelligent dust of Saturn's rings.

And why not believe in something simpler, e.g. the Holy Trinity - (frequency, amplitude, wavelength). Always an opportunity for heretics to believe in the Holy Wave Four - (frequency, amplitude, wavelength, polarization).

As long as they do not break the law,The Law, Yama or universal moral principles. In case of intelligent dust of Saturn's rings as long as they do not turn you into dust, send you psychologically to Saturn and take your property.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2020 06:45PM by DaWatcher.

I am sorry, proper God's names should be:

Radha Krishna, Sita Ram.

Of course, Jesus Christ. Whom some consider as the Son of God in the Trinity, others as the Son of God, others as the empowered Son of God and some as Person on Brahma's position.

People's faith in God in the Form or Name they choose is their right and their beliefs must be respected. Just like universal moral principles and law.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2020 07:33PM by DaWatcher.

By Butler stating that what he teaches is absolute truth he is not respecting the beliefs of anyone else. Any spiritual or philosophical system that's taste that there ideas are the absolute truth are fraudulent and disingenuous and intolerant of other traditions. Butler lecturers are riddled with criticism of Christianity, Buddhism and even his own spiritual Masters mission.

When devotees cherry-pick the pleasant parts of scripture and avoid acknowledging and dealing with the less than pleasant words of their teachers and scriptures, they are in essence acknowledging that's some of it is flawed and therefore by no means absolute ( and willingly remaining in the state of cognitive dissonance). When Butler devotees are hiding his anti-homosexual rhetoric videos, for example, they are in essence acknowledging that they think it is wrong or in the least, not of any absolute value to anyone.

When Butler devotees spend an inordinate amount of time scrubbing the internet of any reference to butlers incongruences they are cherry picking so that they appeal to peoples better judgment, sensibilities and critical thinking. They are in essence controlling what information they choose to reveal to the General Public. Which begs the question, what are they hiding? Do they not believe wholesale that what the guru says and does is of absolute value to humanity?

Bhaktivedanta swami stated many offensive, immoral and irrational things. His disciples spend an inordinate amount of time and energy being apologist for those words rather than admitting that his statements were flawed, inconsistent and have no place in modern society and are in no way helpful or Progressive.

Many of these religious groups view people who are not practicing their specific brand of spirituality as Heretics, offenders, misguided Souls Etc they openly and plainly State this. Butler has, in many videos and taped lectures. But yet, when I come out and state plainly that much of what they believe in is completely logical nonsense, I am somehow made out to be a bigot and zealot? Do you realize the double standard and hypocrisy? I'm not the one making bold claims about absolute truth. The burden of proof is with them.

People have a right to practice and believe in all sorts of things, and they also have a right to be challenged and questioned when making a illogical blanket statements about what is right and wrong for Humanity.

Butler positions himself at the center what is absolute truth. He produces no results. All of his followers are not Pure devotees or recognized as such within his organisation. Only he is. The few people that have come out within his organization to be so called Pure devotees were immediately kicked out along with thier followers. Only room for one pure devotee? How is the pure devotee recognized? By pure abstract methods like paramatma confirmation? Checking it against the vast and confusing vedic body of work? Good luck. No one has ever done that. They simply follow blind sentiment based on vulnerability by virtue of the effects of groupthink and cult peer-pressure.

Bhaktivedanta regularly used tobacco snuff as he was addicted to it and this is widely known and accepted within his mission. Yet of course if any one of his senior devotees was to exhibit such a seemingly sensual dictate, they would be branded as nonsense. He also spoke about the so-called inferiority of women based on their brain size, or that the moon was further away than the sun, or that black people were a lower race, or that Hitler wasn't so bad and that women actually like rape, and that in the future devotees will simply go around killing those who don't believe in their religion. So are we to accept all the other things he says as pure and true simply on account that they may sound Pleasant or even contain some nuggets of Truth? Or do we see the fact that he is a flawed man, a product of his times? Do we accept that he had accurate predictions about the future thereby hinting at his omniscience, but reject that he knew nothing about the fact that his pedophile followers that he put in senior positions were molesting children?

Why have all my YouTube accounts and Twitter accounts been permanently deleted simply because I posted the footage of Butler and his vile comments about homosexuals? What poor soul in Butler's group has the unfortunate job of scrubbing the internet for him of any bad press?

When following a cult creates more questions and Discord then Solutions and answers, do you keep at It Against All Odds? Or do you start to try to rebuild your life?

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When devotees cherry-pick the pleasant parts of
> scripture and avoid acknowledging and dealing with
> the less than pleasant words of their teachers and
> scriptures, they are in essence acknowledging
> that's some of it is flawed and therefore by no
> means absolute ( and willingly remaining in the
> state of cognitive dissonance). When Butler
> devotees are hiding his anti-homosexual rhetoric
> videos, for example, they are in essence
> acknowledging that they think it is wrong or in
> the least, not of any absolute value to anyone.

The question of who is and who is not a truth seeker. Then he will choose the right method. Telling the truth i have never been presented anti-homosexual videos in SIF Poland. Useless anyway.

Absolute value You say? Hm...

S...s....sss ....ssssss .. Sankhya!

Quote

And why not believe in something simpler, e.g. the Holy Trinity - (frequency, amplitude, wavelength). Always an opportunity for heretics to believe in the Holy Wave Four - (frequency, amplitude, wavelength, polarization).

"But sir, when we take out 'time' 'xyz' element and we use transformation, reduction and aggregation we would' have (ether,sound)"

"Yeees!"

"But sir, and if we consider properties and behaviour of virtual particles pair generation and think and do the same we would obtain (ether+sound, air)??"

"Yeees!"

"O Lord! Destroyer of The Worlds, can I tell more?"

....

"I Can't tell you more".

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When Butler devotees spend an inordinate amount of
> time scrubbing the internet of any reference to
> butlers incongruences they are cherry picking so
> that they appeal to peoples better judgment,
> sensibilities and critical thinking. They are in
> essence controlling what information they choose
> to reveal to the General Public. Which begs the
> question, what are they hiding? Do they not
> believe wholesale that what the guru says and does
> is of absolute value to humanity?

True. Some don't like tricky questions too. Some in the face of a contradiction in their reasoning with the Bhagavad Gita, say it is the worst thing to use the Scriptures against their beliefs ...

I swear! I heard it personally!

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bhaktivedanta swami stated many offensive, immoral
> and irrational things. His disciples spend an
> inordinate amount of time and energy being
> apologist for those words rather than admitting
> that his statements were flawed, inconsistent and
> have no place in modern society and are in no way
> helpful or Progressive.

I approach the recorded conversations with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami with great reserve. I treat and study comments on His translations and books.

Anyway the question is what is "progressive"? Involving everyone in production and consumption so that the financier can live comfortably with interest? With total destruction of nature?

Is the destruction of moral values? Sun Tzu already knew that in order for the Empire to be safe, immorality should be spread in neighboring countries.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many of these religious groups view people who are
> not practicing their specific brand of
> spirituality as Heretics, offenders, misguided
> Souls Etc they openly and plainly State this.

True

> The burden of proof is with them.

I would not expect proof. It's rather our job to show the evidence to enforce the law and compensation of victims. Plus not twist the teachings.

> He also spoke about the so-called
> inferiority of women based on their brain size,

There is a difference in brain organisation between men and women. Domination of emotions, spiders vs packs. Etc.
This is the nature. Has its reasons.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or do we see the fact that he is
> a flawed man, a product of his times? Do we accept
> that he had accurate predictions about the future
> thereby hinting at his omniscience, but reject
> that he knew nothing about the fact that his
> pedophile followers that he put in senior
> positions were molesting children?

Responsibility for follower's behaviour is a long subject. Such pathologies are present in most large denominational groups, especially hierarchical ones. The further away from sheep and practical work and the more politics and ideology the worse. More control, more assets and common problems.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why have all my YouTube accounts and Twitter
> accounts been permanently deleted simply because I
> posted the footage of Butler and his vile comments
> about homosexuals? What poor soul in Butler's
> group has the unfortunate job of scrubbing the
> internet for him of any bad press?

Denial.Without eliminating the reasons, more materials will appear and the fun will continue.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When following a cult creates more questions and
> Discord then Solutions and answers, do you keep at
> It Against All Odds? Or do you start to try to
> rebuild your life?

Denial.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2020 06:47PM by DaWatcher.

> When Butler devotees spend an inordinate amount of
> time scrubbing the internet of any reference to
> butlers incongruences they are cherry picking so
> that they appeal to peoples better judgment,
> sensibilities and critical thinking. They are in
> essence controlling what information they choose
> to reveal to the General Public. Which begs the
> question, what are they hiding? Do they not
> believe wholesale that what the guru says and does
> is of absolute value to humanity?

Of course, you need to emphasize what materials are tracked and removed. If Siddhaswarupananda's students are following and removing false information or offensive statements, they are right. There were many such in Poland. As part of an ideological or inter-party war, they have the right to do so and it's good that they do it.

However, it is bad if they struggle with the inconvenient facts of their own group instead of dealing with problems. Solve them.

And finally, of course, the matter of proportion.

You Ian are the evident victim of the "fatal Filipino experiment." If Acharya das who first contacted you did not want to resolve the matter, it confirms your allegations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2020 07:25PM by DaWatcher.

Dewatcher, you seem to cherry pick and only tackle questions that you feel comfortable with. Even though none of what you state really adds to the conversation. Perhaps you can find a different group on these forums that focuses on supporting your continued attachment to defending this philosophy and the crooked gurus who peddle it? You wont find a sympathizer here. Dudley lasted a few days. I will continue to smash anyone who comes here playing apologist for bhaktivedanta and his clown show and butler and his criminal mafia organization. No amount of word jugglry and diversion and excuses will ever explain to me why an adult entertains this shit seriously. Study it, appreciate it culturally and move on with your life. Don't expect it to yield results. Unless by results you mean to become like butler. That is what he is showing to his followers in terms of what they can expect when they achieve Prema. He is the visible and practical example. And bhaktivedanta, who haphazardly spread a fringe indian philosophy with undeniable tragic consequences because he wanted to translate books. Books that were complete fiction, fabrication and convoluted ideas. Little kids read about various hellish planets that made the christian hell look like Disney land. Kids lived mentally stunted and immobilized lives reading fairy tales, getting a subpar education for no reason. Being stressed emotionally and psychologically. Fast forward 2 to 3 generations and everyone wants to pretend it did not happen. It happened.I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I alerted you to your being an apologist for butler and his organization. I'm glad SIF poland devotees did not experience it as bad. I'm 100% sure butler called you all a bunch of dumb polaks at least 100 times as his wife laughed in dutiful amusement. Just as he did to those devotees in the west. Progress is diversity of vision. Its questiong samkhya and vedanta and forming views that are your own personal unique realizations even if they don't yield some fantasyvstate of eternal bliss. It's not trying to use complex science to shoehorn archaic and nonsensical vaishnava tales into it. There are already thousands of poor devotees doing this. Trying to prove that prabhupada was right about the moon being bigger than the sun etc. These people maybe are nice, but nice never made one less of a fool. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Stating that there is a difference between male and female brain organization is a far cry from calling women less intelligent or inferior on account of fucking brain size. Stop making excuses for the swami. He was either a perfected soul who speaks clearly and fir himself, or just like all the other gurus who say anything they like while thier blind disciples run around explaining and apologizing for thier words and actions.

Do all of us a favor here on this forum and stop polluting the thread by trying to justify swami and butler. They are crooks. Swami was a unwitting crook as he actually believed the shit he spoke about, and butler is a knowing crook who bent vaishnavism to his whim. Both left a river of shit in their wake and are responsible for it. You dont ask people to suspend thier critical thinking and surrender to you and then not take responsibility when shit goes bad. Butler is responsible. His minions who continue his bidding are responsible. Failing to acknowledge and see it for what it is makes people willful accomplices. The hare Krishna ship sank years ago and the ones holding on to the pieces of broken wood and trying to convince others that it's a stable boat are culpable. I'm not speaking of unwitting bhaktas who are sincere Seekers and don't know better. For those who have been told and have come across the information, at that point, if they continue, then they are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

DaWatcher-
With all respects,I am very sorry but you are an apologist.
Please take your ideas and opinions and form another thread where you can
have fun with yourself and your ideas and opinions.
There is NO WAY anyone can justify what Butler or Swami or any of the other cult leaders, have done.
Too many people's lives have been destroyed.

The only sane and correct thing you could have taken up, is to get the last 300 pages of this thread and translate them into Polish and DISTRIBUTE widely in Poland.

But you won't do that, will you.

DaWatcher- do you have anything to contribute about the dangers of Butler, Tulsi Gabbard, Johnny Midget, Allen Tibbey, etc.? Stop dissecting everyone’s posts- most of us are done with Butlers rhetoric in our lives, done with the people who choose to follow his demands and instructions. We all want to move on living our lives, while still trying to make sure that no one else is taken in by this cretin and his band of cult goons. This is not a forum for spouting your opinions it is for sharing our experiences with Butler's cult, and educating the public to the dangers and abuse that exists within his cult.
There are other forums you can slither off too, if you need to discuss your views. Sorry, but you are not a solution for those who seek answers, for those who are trying to escape the contamination of the Cult of Butler.

Clinton says Gabbard defamation suit is a bid to grab headlines

By Bloomberg News March 16, 2020
ASSOCIATED PRESS


Hillary Clinton asked a New York court to throw out a lawsuit by presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard, who claims the former Secretary of State defamed her by saying the Hawaii Congresswoman was “a Russian asset” and “the favorite of the Russians.”

“This lawsuit — which seeks $100 million in damages for a single passing remark made by Secretary Clinton in a 40-minute podcast interview about the 2020 election — is an effort by Rep. Gabbard to silence her political critics while making political headlines,” Clinton said in papers filed Friday in Manhattan Federal Court.

Gabbard claims Clinton’s statements in an Oct. 17 appearance on the “Campaign HQ With David Plouffe” podcast were false and malicious and that they were “accepted as true by millions of Americans, including large numbers of voters in battleground presidential primary states.”



Gabbard is one of three remaining candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination in a contest now dominated by the other two, former Vice President Joe Biden and Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. According to a RealClearPolitics polling average, Gabbard has 3% of the vote.

Clinton said her statements were opinion and are protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Clinton documents to dismiss Gabbard lawsuit by Honolulu Star-Advertiser on Scribd

Source:[www.staradvertiser.com]

Yes, this is a money grab -definitely- but the money is for BUTLER.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DaWatcher-
> With all respects,I am very sorry but you are an
> apologist.

No

> Please take your ideas and opinions and form
> another thread where you can
> have fun with yourself and your ideas and
> opinions.

This is the question whether it is a knowledge forum or just for antagonists?

> There is NO WAY anyone can justify what Butler or
> Swami or any of the other cult leaders, have done.
> Too many people's lives have been destroyed.

I am not interested in justification. I'm interested in truth and evidence. Two girls are dead. One commited suicide pregnant ("after traveling with one of the leaders). You have disposed of it. I understand. Your suffering is important. But somehow you have disposed of others. Ugly. Another young daughter of devotees died in an accident in Hawaii. A diver is dead. Something too much .

I want more information.

> The only sane and correct thing you could have
> taken up, is to get the last 300 pages of this
> thread and translate them into Polish and
> DISTRIBUTE widely in Poland.

Yoga Nidra, no Guru in the School, better treating of young "taser prince", IGG, other.

> But you won't do that, will you.

I can do lot more than you think.


> DaWatcher- do you have anything to contribute
> about the dangers of Butler, Tulsi Gabbard, Johnny
> Midget, Allen Tibbey, etc.?

When i have hard evidence of breaking the law publicly or privately - i will send you.

> Stop dissecting everyone’s posts- most of us are
> done with Butlers rhetoric in our lives, done with
> the people who choose to follow his demands and
> instructions.

You do the same. I understand you do not want to be in the cult. Me too. But id does not mean i do not like the philosophy. Or tradition. It is is patriarchal, mixed with braminism and maybe after destruction to the end of life i would not be interested to be in any group.

> We all want to move on living our
> lives, while still trying to make sure that no one
> else is taken in by this cretin and his band of
> cult goons. This is not a forum for spouting your
> opinions it is for sharing our experiences with
> Butler's cult, and educating the public to
> the dangers and abuse that exists within his
> cult.

Honies, this forum is "Cult Education". Formal method is a good method.

> There are other forums you can slither off too, if
> you need to discuss your views. Sorry, but you are
> not a solution for those who seek answers, for
> those who are trying to escape the contamination
> of the Cult of Butler.

I understand you are angry. I am not. But if i know that this cult is guilty of death at least two girls, there will be fury.

Ha?