Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: February 10, 2020 07:11PM
> The evidence is testimony of many locals living in
> that community. The recorded testimony is on
> soundcloud and is clearly 2 men on the boat
> talking to each other... where is the other man?
I've heard the recording. Strange is that the kid was calling. It looked as if adult men did not have the courage to quickly and carefully communicate the reality of the situation.
> The beach is a public beach. No one owns the
> water. People own parts of beachfront sand not the
> water. There is no justification for it man.
Ok, thanks for the information.
> Please don't be an apologist for this cult. There
> is nothing to protect except Butler. A man died so
> Butler can have his ocean front water peace.
I am not an apologist but I see things individually. To everyone according to merits. Just as I was offended by blaming the Polish branch of ISKCON by SIF american leaders, I look at it individually.
There are many honest or manipulated people, but there are also wolves. Hard evidence is needed for a wolf judgment.
That's the method.
Men died. The man was hit and killed. A low sentence defies a sense of justice. It is not known if the convicted person is guilty.
What solution? Gathering evidence. If the speeding of the bathers by motorboat is taking place again, video recordings accumulate, for example using a smartphone. One time, second time, third time. Testimonialas is not enough. That's how it is done in Poland and in the USA, certainly. In court, evidence counts. If someone has hard hands, the stronger the evidence must be.
> Otherwise reports, articles and firsthand accounts
> abound on the web.
> To say you are cautious what you read on the web
> is fine. None of the above contradicts numerous
> statements made in various places. Are you afraid
> of convicting a careless cult member for the death
> of a man and injury to his son—not to mention his
> whole family? Are you concerned about protecting
> Butler in some way?
For my part, I can write to you that it is shocking, descriptions of property, property of several million, etc.
And I know devotees from Poland, where a beautiful girl decades ago chose poverty and hard life with her devotee husband, they worked decades hard leading a gypsy life, destroyed their beauty and health, they work in a foreign country and they send money to the USA for their Guru. Because he is sick. And here I read about speedboats and killing people, so don't write to me about protecting the cult. People who are victims must be protected.
Another example is you have people in Poland, members of earlier worship who have devoted their lives to hard work. And contrary to world opinion, they were involved in work for society, they do it all the time, feed the homeless, visit children in orphanages. They must be protected. Interestingly, they were endowed with sympathy or attention of other Vaisnavas from other sangs, with kindness and not appearances like conversation on a retreat. They must be protected. And that it's hard for them to accept the facts we are talking about here - it's true.
> These clowns could care less
> about you or the local community they are in. They
> hide and are secretive and harass people in the
> water, stalk journalists and so forth.
One of the hardest arguments I've read here is the Filipino school and what you and other children have experienced. Reports of returning Poles were not so hard, but those were different times. Either way, it's a tough argument.
> Do you need
> to be present in the room to trust that Tulsi is
> suing Hillary for $50K? Were not talking about
> some far stretch of the imagination here. I used
> to attend beach Kirtans in Malibu where butler's
> security guards would harass and chase away people
> and make sure people did not come too close to the
> event etc by stating "it's a private event"—on a
> public beach of course. That is not even to
> mention the violent harrassment, cursing and
> threats they made on many occasions.
All this political commitment is strange, not according to the instructions of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Tulsi G, not knowing the Bhagavad Gita well and giving it to the Prime Minister of India, behaves like an elephant in a porcelain shop. From the very beginning, her message or narrative was steeped in manipulation, especially the tactic of accusing bigotry. A classic maneuver, but too stupid for European intellects.
The fact that someone has cleared the Wiki entry of Tulsi Gabbard from Filipino threads and SIF threads only means that she has political support. Utilitarian, I suspect, and when it's not needed, its acceptance will end.
There are also doubts about the SIF activity in the Philippines or Poland, because these are important geopolitical keystones on the world map, and Tulsi Gabbard looks like a geopolitical product for 3 decades, an arrangement for India for the siphon for USA vs China. And that means a weird smell for spiritual SIF Poland ....
> Listen DeWatcher, unless you have something
> concrete to add to this forum about your beef with
> this group, unless you lost family, were abused
> mentally or physically or simply see through the
> madness and charade of this group of clowns, what
> exactly do you hope to accomplish here?
Yes, i have more information. Look for the truth, present the truth when the right time comes.
> I am all
> for proof—there is plenty of it. Some of it
> hidden, some of it protect through fear and others
> by SIF taking legal action. But as all things must
> eventually come out, much has come out over the
It is coming out.
> If you opinion is that Butler has some
> legal right as a person to have his disciples
> chase people away from his beachfront home, you
> are in the wrong forum.
When i do not know i ask about the law. Then i ask for evidence.
What interests me? I have devoted a lot of life, energy and money to SIF Poland. The most precious years. Chris Butler had enemies, SIF also had enemies, SIF Poland had enemies. In Poland, there were cases, e.g. attempts to set one of the leaders on fire during lectures, one of the honest. So the reality is that there are different motivations and the truth is where it is.
I'm interested in truth and evidence. Shri Shim was killed, so like a police dog I ask - what rights, what evidence. In court, evidence counts. The parties may always have conflicting claims.
> If you feel people have a
> right to kill someone carelessly and not sit in
> jail for a good 2-5 years at least, I think you
> are in the wrong place.
Why do you attribute to me the acceptance of killing a man? I have expressed my disagreement. The verdict is too low. A diver was killed, the accusation of driving a motorboat without a license or driving license and not, for example, unintentionally causing death is a laughing stock of justice.
> If you think the stuff
> Gralow has meticulously dug up is somehow flawed
> or incorrect—please show the proof. If you feel
> Butler has a right to be vile to his disciples and
> others in the way he teaches and instructs his
> followers, you are in the wrong company here.
> There is no apologists here. We stand behind what
> we say, see and concur as fact or very probable
Not the point. I prefer hard evidence. I collect them.
> I mean, come on man, you are coming on here and
> talking about Yoga Nidra and a woman committing
> suicide by virtue of some danger possibly arising
> out of mixing two bullshit yoga systems
> together—be serious man.
> I am talking about REAL
> shit man. People getting mowed down in a boat in a
> community that they are known to have done this.
In Poland it is done like this - if the event is repeated, then the event is recorded on the smartphone. For example, a group is extorting money from passengers. It is recorded once, second, third and evidence is. You can present something to the prosecutor's office or the Police. Why? There can be a little determination to investigate or investigate or mild sentence and so on. This is how it is done in Poland if you have the determination to seek justice.
Seriousness of the Court, seriousness of investigation.
> LOOK THE MANY POLICE reports and how many tickets
> the guy has for speeding around shallow waters (in
> his guru's boat). I am talking about money
> laundering, money schemes, financial fraud, drug
> money, kids in illegal schools with no access to
> parents or consolers and waking up at 4 am to pour
> cold water on their head and sit in a dark temple
> room to chant and listen and see anti-homosexual
> videos and graphic sexual vile language and hatred
> and anger. I am talking about a total lack of
> transparency this cult has in their Tusli
> candidate, their own history and so much more.
I accepted the arguments and watched the materials. I even suggested analyzing the ones I linked to but no one commented on - a pity.
But I don't act blindly under the influence of "no because no".
As for Tulsi Gabbard from the very beginning - before she even made adjustments to her actions because she introduced - I thought it was a threat that she would run for president of the United States.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2020 07:25PM by DaWatcher.