To each their own. I have not had a enlightening experience in the cult. The mantras work when you are in a lively kirtan in the same fashion that a rock concert makes one feel free and happy. Chanting on beads alone was always stressful as you were asked to chant 16 rounds and spent majority of the morning trying to bang through the rounds so you can get on with your life.

There is no science behind the Gunas and other ideas in the vedas. None. It was not systematically ever studied nor tested. It is the opinion of a few men. Mostly brahmins and mostly amalgamations of buddhist and advaitist philosophy mixed with devotional rhetoric and myth. It holds no water. It may feel pleasant for some time but after a while it becomes routine like all other activities. This is likely why the butler cult mixes things up with other spiritual practices like yoga Nidra and pleasant music—because they need to try to keep it all fresh for new recruits.

I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive. There is a lot of great knowledge in the eastern scriptures and philosophical works. Much of it is pluralistic and even Chaitanyas final offering of Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is a sort of apologist stance that basically states what we already know when we seriously ascertain all spiritual ideas: It's inconceivable. It's a paradox and it's not a singular method that can be applied to all seekers of truth. Everyone approaches "god" or the idea of a higher power or spiritual path in their own unique way. Why? Because we are all unique. The junkie versus the disillusioned successful business man will approach spirituality with different intent, reason and quality.

Butler is a man. A man who himself is affected by his mind and ideas. He has a past filled with drug use and hatred and anger toward minorities and obvious anger issues. He is cynical and controlling and neurotic in his day to day behavior. His followers are westerners looking for cheap solutions to lifes problems. They swallow the pill of his version of gaudiya vaishnavism with the naive idealism of a child. This type of nativity started with ISKCON as devotees hit the streets in the 60s madly engulfed by the charism and novelty of Prabhupada. They did not question his teachings, ideas or approach because it was quickly made clear by Prabhupada and his fanatical GBC that doing so will destroy ones spiritual life. This threat of imminent doom is a classic state of cults. I understand it may not be the intention of the leaders or fanatical followers to "scare" people, but that is the subversive final effect. People adhere, don't question and blindly follow out of a place of fear. And the fear runs very deep. Devotees will reject their family, friends, society and a host of illogical fears take hold.

Nowadays, the devotees of Butler are quick to sue, file lawsuits and libel suits. It's their modern day Narasigha dev. In many ways it shows plainly their weak faith in their gods and deep insecurity surrounding their spiritual masters actions. How else can it be viewed? They don't explain their guru's actions and words and behavior. They don't explain their spiritual practices honestly and plainly and hide behind pleasant music and yoga Nidra and yoga asana breath work. They scream religious bigotry when people show them plainly a video of their guru talking like some low level sailor about homosexuals and muslims. They find nothing odd about the numerous letters of Prabhupada literally accusing Butler of property theft etc. About him marrying his own successful yoga personality disciple and abandoning his sanyasi order. About operating schools for young boys and girls and showing them and making them listen to vile anger and hate filled lectures. About direct ties of his various businesses to utter fraud and scamming schemes. About his odd proclivity to gain political momentum on a world-wide scale via his brainwashed flip flopping Tulsi disciple etc etc. And this is just the stuff we are aware of and ready to speak against. There are MANY other disciples who choose to hide, remain nameless or have been silenced by complicity.

I have spoken personally to ex-followers who have told me they have MUCH MUCH more information about financial schemes, odd behavior etc. Once such ex-devotee even mentioned money laundering and another started that Butler had many of his devotees attend Gay parades, go to gay clubs and organization and pretend to be gay so they can give Butler "intel". What business does a Gaudiya Vaishnava guru have in such affairs? Why does Butler know so much about homosexual sex practices. I recall as a young boy hearing lectures wherein butler graphically described many fringe sex acts. Why were we allowed and made to listen to this and write essays on these topics? Why were we groomed to have such fear and hatred towards other Krishna groups, religions, women, family etc??? Was this a well rounded education of any sort? What spiritual benefit came from such things?

When all is said and done, if a person is happy in this cult, by all means continue. But I truly question ones sanity and sense of well being and self when this is all passed off as "acceptable" and "justified" by virtue of it's relation to the blue god Krishna. If this is what passes as "spiritual life" we are living in truly backwards times indeed.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The mantras work when you
> are in a lively kirtan in the same fashion that a
> rock concert makes one feel free and happy.
> Chanting on beads alone was always stressful as
> you were asked to chant 16 rounds and spent
> majority of the morning trying to bang through the
> rounds so you can get on with your life.

Different aspects connected.


> People adhere, don't question and blindly
> follow out of a place of fear.

This is a symptom of a sect. Another example is that when you ask an inquisitive question, there is an attempt to intimidate. Faced with facts, there is denial.Or opposite. Symptoms of a sect.

> And the fear runs
> very deep. Devotees will reject their family,
> friends, society and a host of illogical fears
> take hold.

Symptom of a sect.

> Nowadays, the devotees of Butler are quick to sue,
> file lawsuits and libel suits.

Then we have to put a question - and what about diver boat killer?

There cannot be spiritual life with notorious violation of universal moral principles - yama.

> I have spoken personally to ex-followers who have
> told me they have MUCH MUCH more information about
> financial schemes, odd behavior etc.

Yes, there are more informations. There is always a necessity to verify. Anyway, one has to ask himself a question - why did i come to a certain sanga? To socialize in a cult? To get knowledge? I decided to look for spiritual realisation - before.

> Why does
> Butler know so much about homosexual sex
> practices. I recall as a young boy hearing
> lectures wherein butler graphically described many
> fringe sex acts. Why were we allowed and made to
> listen to this and write essays on these topics?

"Tamas" concentration.


> Why were we groomed to have such fear and hatred
> towards other Krishna groups, religions, women,
> family etc??? Was this a well rounded education of
> any sort? What spiritual benefit came from such
> things?

Srila Bhaktivinoda gave warnings.


> When all is said and done, if a person is happy in
> this cult, by all means continue. But I truly
> question ones sanity and sense of well being and
> self when this is all passed off as "acceptable"
> and "justified" by virtue of it's relation to the
> blue god Krishna. If this is what passes as
> "spiritual life" we are living in truly backwards
> times indeed.

We are unique and if we are sincere - we still search for the ultimate truth. It is positive.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2020 08:04PM by DaWatcher.

Quote
DaWatcher
This is a symptom of a sect. Another example is that when you ask an inquisitive question, there is an attempt to intimidate. Faced with facts, there is denial.Or opposite. Symptoms of a sect.

Of course it should be properly corrected when there is rejection, denial, intimidation etc.

Jai Srila Prabhupada!!!!

[abcnews.go.com]

May Lord Narashingha protect us from the evil Hillary Clinton.

In true Butler fashion, Tulsi decides to sue cause her lord didn't show up for the occasion... Krishna saves his energy to battle the real big demons. Hillary did not make the cut I guess.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jai Srila Prabhupada!!!!
>
> [abcnews.go.com]
>
> May Lord Narashingha protect us from the evil
> Hillary Clinton.
>
> In true Butler fashion, Tulsi decides to sue cause
> her lord didn't show up for the occasion...
> Krishna saves his energy to battle the real big
> demons. Hillary did not make the cut I guess.

Nothing surprising when it comes to the expected method of operation.Samoa origin by father! Mother? However, one must admire how much Tulsi has the strength to speak. Non-stop talk.

I don't know how much Lord Krishna has to do with this. I also don't know how much Chris Butler has to do with it - maybe they got divorced in their visions and projects. I am still wondering about the huge karma and "gather the gang after big bang".

Divorced? From who? From What? What does Samoa have to do with anything?

I am especially fond of Krishnas words in the Gita about suing your enemy for $50K. And the verses in chapter 7 smashing homosexuals and muslims. Now I know where the inspiration came from. Anything can be justified when it is done "for Krishna" under the guidance of an expert spiritual master.

Apparently, according to scripture, Krishna has everything to do with it. And if you don't understand it, just know it's all a part of his eternal "play".

If you think for one second that Butler is not banking on the $50K suing that is going on in the Tulsi campaign, you my dear friend, do not know Butler or anything about how SIF operates. Tulsi does not speak or move without Butler pulling the strings. You think 5000+ SIF followers are feverishly supporting Tulsi because there is a lack of options in terms of political candidates? Butler has been telling his followers who to vote for since the 70s. We were all told to vote for Rick Reed, Nashiki, and Mike Gabbard et al for years by Butler.

Tulsi has videos and recent news articles where she still gives allegiance to Butler. As recent as last year. Her staff members are all Butler devotees, followers and disciples. She has been shown in videos at Kirtans in Hawaii offering flowers to huge pictures of Butler on the alter just a few months ago. Divorced? Are you serious? She has Butler on speed dial.

All this suing and complaining that the elections are rigged, not attending debates and flip flopping on her stances over the course of a very short period of time is all Butler driving his political power trip through a brainwashed devotee. He literally has fell hook line and sinker for his post as Jagad Guru. If it was not that he is allergic to the air around his face he would be running for President himself.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Divorced? From who? From What? What does Samoa
> have to do with anything?

To check everything and everyone. Too important.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am especially fond of Krishnas words in the Gita
> about suing your enemy for $50K. And the verses in
> chapter 7 smashing homosexuals and muslims. Now I
> know where the inspiration came from. Anything can
> be justified when it is done "for Krishna" under
> the guidance of an expert spiritual master.

Can't remind such "gita" actually...Hm...

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently, according to scripture, Krishna has
> everything to do with it. And if you don't
> understand it, just know it's all a part of his
> eternal "play".

From a philosophical point of view, nothing happens without God's will. There is a field of action. There are forces like tracks along which the action's actions slide. A big discussion about free will.

The subject is too important to easily blame Lord Krishna for the actions of those who present themselves as followers of Lord Krishna, especially since their understanding of the Gita differs from Her or is shallow.

Shallow solutions to the Whole World?

> If you think for one second that Butler is not
> banking on the $50K suing that is going on in the
> Tulsi campaign, you my dear friend, do not know
> Butler or anything about how SIF operates. Tulsi
> does not speak or move without Butler pulling the
> strings. You think 5000+ SIF followers are
> feverishly supporting Tulsi because there is a
> lack of options in terms of political candidates?
> Butler has been telling his followers who to vote
> for since the 70s. We were all told to vote for
> Rick Reed, Nashiki, and Mike Gabbard et al for
> years by Butler.

I am here because of controversy. However, I rely on observation, analysis and evidence. More facts, more evidence, more relations, confirmed coincidence.

To be careful.

> Tulsi has videos and recent news articles where
> she still gives allegiance to Butler. As recent as
> last year. Her staff members are all Butler
> devotees, followers and disciples. She has been
> shown in videos at Kirtans in Hawaii offering
> flowers to huge pictures of Butler on the alter
> just a few months ago. Divorced? Are you serious?
> She has Butler on speed dial.

I saw some of this videos. True. Then some "cleaning" happened. On wiki i.e. There are some accepting it. I am not surprised.

> All this suing and complaining that the elections
> are rigged, not attending debates and flip
> flopping on her stances over the course of a very
> short period of time is all Butler driving his
> political power trip through a brainwashed
> devotee. He literally has fell hook line and
> sinker for his post as Jagad Guru. If it was not
> that he is allergic to the air around his face he
> would be running for President himself.

But there are rules in the World so there is no acting-freely.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess Butler really needs those FIFTY MILLION
> dollars!

At a purely practical level, the question was how big part of the support were given by Mr. Patrick's donations.


> Tulsi's campaign seems to have drained his wallet-
> you know all the money goes to him, right? All
> those donations and all those hidden businesses.
> Or else he has to recoup the money he had to
> shell out over the cover-up of the death of Sri
> Shim.

Killing a person or protecting a real offender from liability, even if worldly law is an imperfect version of yama, this is not a good symptom.

I'm surprised she didn't go for 108 million.