IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The moral of the story is I don't think anyone has
> been selling apple pie from the beginning.

And about Tulsi and politics -

[www.youtube.com]

"And the moral of the story is that bands with no talent can easily amuse idiots with a stupid puppet show..."

Dear DaWatcher
With regret I believe there is no room on this blog for differing opinions and respectful dialogue. Posts over the last few days convince me of that. People may be in pain, I understand but all the more reason to be kind and polite to others and their shattered lives. The forum will never reach its goal of shedding light on the Chris Butler cult. If the members think they own the narrative and continue to shout down, or deny others their point of view. It was great to connect with you, you made it easier to come to terms with this big change in my life. Good luck Dudley

Dudley:
I think it's going to be expected that there are going to be vocal opponents of the cult at hand on a cult forum don't you?

I know that you are trying to create a separate entity out of Chris Butler in terms of his position and place vaishnava history, but his is very much a reflection of the cult in its entirety. The fact of the matter is is that he is part of the WEA as are many of the other groups. The fact of the matter is is that he is giving money and getting support from all of these other groups. You are trying to point out some trivial differences in the way he preaches or some specific Temple of his that is teaching Yoga Nidra or something like that. I am trying to point out that the very core belief system that they have is flawed and often leads to much confusion in the minds of the practitioners.

If you are now part of a different vaishnava Group, which I assume you are, chances are that they are now in some way supportive of Chris Butler's political motivations in the form of Tulsi. Be it ISKCON or Gaudiya Math, or other offshoot groups of these two, they are likely oh political supporters of hers. Inadvertently, that makes them supporters of Chris Butler. They are either giving money or vocal political support for her. This makes them complicit in Chris Butler's schemes and agendas. That is not a loose connection, that is a very linear and straight forward connection.

I am sorry that you did not find the Chris Butler called to be of meaning and value in terms of your spiritual progress. I am here to say, that you are not likely to find any such progress to be made in any of these other groups. I am happy to discuss and argue this as I believe I am versed enough in their philosophy and theology to make rational arguments for why I feel they are detrimental to most people's Mental Health. That is not to say that some people have found some good support and guidance Within These groups. But history has a way of repeating itself. There is a reason for much of the conflict in dismay Within These groups and for me it goes a lot deeper then a few Traditions, rituals and core values. Those are all a part of it, but they are just the tip of the iceberg.

I am sorry if my opinions have I offended anyone and it is not my intention to disturb your faith. It is my hope that my personal testimony and opinions regarding this cult can act in support of those who are looking to get out of the mess they find themselves in and do so with a clear and confident conscience. I want such Seekers to feel supported in their feelings and not confused and made to feel alone in their intuition regarding the cult.

Dudley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear DaWatcher
> With regret I believe there is no room on this
> blog for differing opinions and respectful
> dialogue. Posts over the last few days convince me
> of that. People may be in pain, I understand but
> all the more reason to be kind and polite to
> others and their shattered lives. The forum will
> never reach its goal of shedding light on the
> Chris Butler cult. If the members think they own
> the narrative and continue to shout down, or deny
> others their point of view. It was great to
> connect with you, you made it easier to come to
> terms with this big change in my life. Good luck
> Dudley

Namaste Dudley,

Thank you for your kind words, it was nice to discuss with you. And thank you for valuable information.

What unites us here, regardless of our further attitude towards Vaisnava philosophy or religion in general, is deep - certainly for me - controversy related to SIF, experiences, etc. It's good that this forum thread was created - this is not a coincidence.

I wish you all the best, but I think it is ahead of you.

From my point of view, I understand aversion to worship and a tendency more battleful than cool objectivity.And it is a miracle that boys from the Philippine school subjected to such pressure and separation from their parents are able to function at all. The cult has integrally built-in hypocrisy and denial.

Rama Ranson - thank you for courage. Someone had to start.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are trying to point out some trivial
> differences in the way he preaches or some
> specific Temple of his that is teaching Yoga Nidra
> or something like that. I am trying to point out
> that the very core belief system that they have is
> flawed and often leads to much confusion in the
> minds of the practitioners.

The subject of Yoga Nidra from my point of view is important and related to the potential mental disorders that this rigor can cause. Like naimittika dharma, as a rigor built for people with a dominant mode of ignorance or even specialized for drug addicts in people with a dominance of satva guna, it can cause a number of harmful effects and there are symptoms.

Anyway: another examples:

WaiLana:
[shop.wailana.com]

Acharya das:
[acharyadas.com]

> Tulsi. Be it ISKCON or Gaudiya Math, or other
> offshoot groups of these two, they are likely oh
> political supporters of hers. Inadvertently, that
> makes them supporters of Chris Butler. They are
> either giving money or vocal political support for
> her. This makes them complicit in Chris Butler's
> schemes and agendas. That is not a loose
> connection, that is a very linear and straight
> forward connection.

As for the Gaudiya Math, this is a federation of temples.

Tulsi Gabbard and Gaudiya Math? This is politics. As far as I know and confirmed by materials on the internet, in 2010 Mr. Midget accused unidentified members of one of Gaudiy Math's the federation in general, which was reprimanded. His words have been cited and are still present on the internet today.

In Poland, Gaudiya Math was publicly thrown into one bag, i.e. leaders from the USA present it as an organization reluctant to SIF.
. One of the former dead members of SIF Poland protested against it.

And if Mr. Midget is uncomfortable with this, or for the people supporting him - it will be reminded. As long as there is an attempt to repress or there will be no public apology.

I have never seen any effort to talk to people about suicide of Kasia S. I also remember.

Or what to even mention such misconceptions like that:

[pl-pl.facebook.com]

"Jagad Guru Chris Butler Fans"

Fans? Guru is not an idol. Cannot have fans. But as you can see - no one have problem with that.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2019 02:41AM by DaWatcher.

Glad to see more people becoming aware:

Should We Be More Concerned That Tulsi Gabbard Might Have Been Raised In A Cult?



Gabbard shuts down questions about her past and connections to Butler, often calling such attacks Hindu-phobic. To be clear: this topic is worth investigating not because Gabbard identifies as Hindu, but because the group that has and still does influence her life is a best defined as a cult.  The devotion to a single man, the indoctrination and control and the many extreme viewpoints Chris Butler espouse fit the definition of a cult very well, but it is a loaded word. Their appropriation of Hindu teachings and doctrines, amalgamated with their homophobia and high regard for authoritarianism is concerning, as is the possible influence of such a group on an elected leader.

[www.themarysue.com]

I see, thanks for the post DaWatcher. It does seem they push some heavy Yoga Nidra stuff. That's classic. I wonder how far back that started. My hunch is they are getting some major money from some donors in those Yoga Nidra groups and that was part of the deal...

Look at this:

[wisdom.yoga]

Quote

Question: Why do you recommend guided relaxation? Isn’t it enough that we sleep 6 to 7 hours a night

Of course, the question is whether this is an initiative of Siddhaswarupanada or some activists, and the Guru does not know anything (especially since it is known that he had serious health problems). The fact that there was an information filter was a symptom of this. The monthly reports did not write uncomfortable things, and then there were rumors of dissatisfaction with Mr. Midget. Sad.

Anyway, teaching different yoga techniques is beneficial if they actually help. But the question is again - what is and what is not Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Butler could not care less as long as the check comes in to cover the monthly cost of tin foil.

DaWatcher:

I just left a post on the link you gave to the SIF wisdom.yoga site. I am sure we can all attempt a nice effort to spread the joy of the season by posting on these various sites to wake up some spirit souls! Jiv Jago! Jiv Jago:

There is no rigorous scientific proof that mediation or yoga Nidra will give you any more rest and recovery than getting 7-8 hours of rest. Power down the phone. Read a good book and tuck in. Unless you suffer from some some biological issue or mental health issue, you should be good to go.

Do you honestly think that chanting a mantra or some yoga Nidra practice has more power than evolutionary nature has built into the equation of organic rest and recovery mechanisms? Humans have been sleeping and getting up recharged for the day for millions of years. Sure, some days will be worse than others (staying up to write a long winded visa puja offering) and aging plays a role in how much sleep gets interrupted (likely a mechanism of self-preservation to protect ourselves at night if something should happen), but overall nature has figured it all out. What you guys are suggesting is that we all go out and buy Wai Lana's latests Yoga Nidra video or listen to Jagad Guru Christ Butler Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa tired voice singing some made up mantras like "Haribo Nitai Gaur" to sleep like babies again. Thanks for the naive canned interview. Would not expect much more from Science of Identity Foundation. Enjoy supporting your Gurudeva tinfoil habit. Here's to Tulsi 2020. May she rein supreme while her guru satisfies his juvenile bullying against homosexuals.