This needs to sink in- Tulsi Gabbard , a student of Chris Butler was a student of AC Bhaktivedanta. Its as clear as day.

This from a former devotee of AC Bhaktivedanta on how women and children have been treated:

[iskconcultunveiled.blogspot.com]

THE APPLE NEVER FALLS FAR FROM THE TREE !!!

In SIF Poland, this aspect of gender equality, in an ideological sense or how it looked in practice - it was different. It was mainly shaped by personal relations at the beginning. Two charismatic leaders Tapasya das and Vishnu das. Where, in general, Tapasya das remained in Poland and there was a circle of adoration around him, largely consisting of initiated women-disciples. Leaders were mostly - except idol Tapasya das - women.

In practice, it was not uncommon for them to show male devotees - superiority or contempt - it gradually decreased.

There is a current discussion in Poland about women's equality. Because of the pathologies of the patriarchal system as well as militant feminism. This applies to families, professional work (there is nothing to pretend that an entrepreneur in Poland prefers not to risk employing a woman under a contract of employment if she potentially wants to get a full-time contract to get pregnant - for social insurance, etc.), as well as, for example, women in the army which is not entirely ready. The voice of reason is the path of the middle - men and women have different family roles, psychophysical conditions and qualifications.

In the Bhagavatam, in turn, there are fragments like the story of Narada Muni, which did not initiate women and, for example, some sangas consider it to be a fragment from ancient times, not corresponding to the realities where women are leaders and activists.

The pathology is exploitative, violent patriarchalism as well as arrogant belligerent, contemptuous feminism.

The brain structure of a woman and a man are different. Men are more dominated by intellect over emotions, but this is also changing. Androgyny and homosexuality are another thing. A long story.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2019 05:37AM by DaWatcher.

Over the years many truths have been written here. It astounds us that some trolls and cult apologists still insist on calling all these actual and prove-able facts as slanders and lies. I can assure you no one who has been on this forum and posting for years would even bother, if this was all a fabrication.
Why waste our precious time?
Many times on the internet when an article is posted showing what this cult and Tulsi Gabbard is really all about, immediately it is attacked as slander and lies.
How deep the brainwashing goes. How much has Butler fooled those around him? For over 4 decades?? How in the 21st century, can this type of lunacy still continue? It boggles the mind. Christine Gralow has written a series of articles in which she deeply investigated some of these hidden truths. She has been consistently harassed and targeted especially on the internet.
The creature Butler does not want the truth revealed.
And why was the death of Sri Shim, a much beloved member of Kailua hushed up? We still do not know the full and final details of the trial that was held? Did hte Sri Shim family ever receive justice? Do the newcomers on this forum even know the terrible story of Sri Shim?

In order for the cult to do anything, Butler had to have access to a great deal of money. And he did:

Part 1:
[i.stuff.co.nz]
Part 2:
[i.stuff.co.nz]

So not only was Patrick Bowler a cult member (and still is) he is also a RAT.

[www.thcfarmer.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2019 07:08AM by VoxVeritasVita Das.

Lest you think of poor Patrick Bowler (Paramahansa Das) struggling to re-build his life, he is doing fine. Back with another cult business to ...make mo' money.
[but does it have Guru's toenals and bathwater in it?]

From Rama:Jul 15, 2015
#4
Patrick Bowler back on top:
Another Butler cult company. His wife hosting, Bowler shaving in the mirror. His daughter is in there and filmed/uploaded by my childhood friend, his son in law Nimai Van Den Boss, all worship Chris Butler.
It's total mind control status in that cult, it's only just starting to come out.

Decades of secrecy starting to break.

[vimeo.com]

Yes that is definitely Patrick Bowler shaving in the mirror.

From Christine Gralow-

mo' money,mo'money, mo'money

Butler's Web: Krishna, Politics, and QNET's International Pyramid Scheme

10/20/2017
[www.meanwhileinhawaii.org]

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lest you think of poor Patrick Bowler (Paramahansa
> Das) struggling to re-build his life, he is doing
> fine. Back with another cult business to ...make
> mo' money.

I met him at a retreat in Krynica in the 90s when he came to Poland with Tusta Krishna das. He seemed a very nice man, but it was obvious that he was experiencing something heavy and looking for the support of Tusta Krishna das. His daughter was in Poland. Then we heard about jumping out of the prison window or something.

His son-in-law ("he likes big money too") was also the owner of this company:

[www.privatemanufacturing.eu]

(now different domain, etc.)

It was sold, money transfer rumors.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And why was the death of Sri Shim, a much beloved
> member of Kailua hushed up? We still do not know
> the full and final details of the trial that was
> held? Did hte Sri Shim family ever receive
> justice? Do the newcomers on this forum even know
> the terrible story of Sri Shim?

From what I read in the forum, Sri Shim, a nice person, dived with his step-son and was hit by a speedboat. Controversy arose who managed the boat at that time. Sai Hansen heard the citation of driving a boat without a license. Forum posts here - voice interpretation - suggested that the boat was also present if it was managed by a royal son.

Either way - the citation of driving a boat without a license is far less than accidentally causing death, etc. - or as it is called in American law.
Any way, as people suggest - if there is Mr. Gabbards protection...

For devotees in Poland, overworked while feeding the homeless and sending the remnants of their money in subsidies, they could be shocked at how sweet life goes on Lanikai beach - you can go for a speedboat and if you kill someone, then coins and a good uncle will defend you.


VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decades of secrecy starting to break.
>
> [vimeo.com]
>
> Yes that is definitely Patrick Bowler shaving in
> the mirror.

What an advertisement! Prana +. What a wonderful specifics.

"Will wake the dead out of the grave". "Welcome back, Grandma." "Enjoy life, run over kitty"

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Butler's Web: Krishna, Politics, and QNET's
> International Pyramid Scheme

Nice picture. Nice family.

"Family is the most important thing. And then money."

ASMY is a polygamist sect.

A close personal friend told me in the 1970's that Butlter had advised him it was okay to have more than wife so long as he didn't ill treated them. He is not with either of those woman now.

Butler has advised some other male followers that it was okay to have more than one wife as well. AC Bhaktivedanta Swami was totally against this proposal and said "this policy must be strictly prohibited within our devotee society. If it is not it shall only cause chaos".

-Nitchy Hanson's father Prahlad Hansen has had two wives since the 1990s

-Yadu Nandana das a leading disciple of Chris Butlter also has a second wife.

The world should know Tulsi Gabbard's pastor condones multiple wives.

Dudley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A close personal friend told me in the 1970's that
> Butlter had advised him it was okay to have more
> than wife so long as he didn't ill treated them.
> He is not with either of those woman now.

> Butler has advised some other male followers that
> it was okay to have more than one wife as well. AC
> Bhaktivedanta Swami was totally against this
> proposal and said "this policy must be strictly
> prohibited within our devotee society. If it is
> not it shall only cause chaos".

Polygamy is allowed in various cultures and religions. However, this is due to social or war circumstances, such as those of Mohammed in Islam and 4 wives. In practice, this ends with the fact that the prettiest and youngest women find husbands, the others not necessarily.

I watched once a document from Tibet, where twins had one wife. Poverty and religion and personal relations made it ok. But the circumstances were unique.

Were these instructions directed to disciples who were higher in the hierarchy or were better placed financially?

In a time of dominating force of passion "rajas", there would be a tendency for a romantic relationship outside of marriage ("parakiya rasa"), especially for a "less important" woman.

Only some external force can bind it. And that means a strongly connected sect.

> -Nitchy Hanson's father Prahlad Hansen has had two
> wives since the 1990s
>
> -Yadu Nandana das a leading disciple of Chris
> Butlter also has a second wife.

And what were the effects? There was harmony? Jealousy between women or was it all superficial and purely organizational?

How high were they in the hierarchy?

> The world should know Tulsi Gabbard's pastor
> condones multiple wives.

I repeat the question - a request for information - such an indicator. Was Siddhaswarupananda massaged by women, were they also devotees, and if so, did they have adequate specialization in the field of massage?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2019 07:27PM by DaWatcher.

Another question is connected with Yoga Nidra.


According to Wikipedia:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

Satyananda classified and expounded the techniques given in the Yoga as a series of different stages and levels of pratyahara, such as antar mouna, and different stages of meditation.[30] He invented a technique of yoga-nidra, now known worldwide as Satyananda Yoga Nidra, and defined and codified the different stages of the technique.[31]

As it is written, he departed 5 December 2009.

Do you remember any special phenomena in the SIF sanga around 2009? E.g. from July 2009 to December 2009? For example: deterioration of the atmosphere, attack of sadness, lack of energy, ghostly visions etc.?

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've written on this forum extensively about my
> time in the School, my memories and the things I
> know for a fact happened. I am an open book about
> it and happy to discuss and talk about it all.

I hope you can tell you some more details.

Like what specifically?


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Butler's son, Siddha was treated with special attention as were Tapasya Das' son and nephew.


What were these forms of better treatment? Was it the initiative of Tapas das, teachers or the verbalized request of Siddhaswarupananda?

He was allowed more access to better educational opportunities with actual tutors as well as given opportunity to do weightlifting and other sports and special attention given in pretty much any situation. Yes Butler and Wai Lana instructed special items for his care.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> had no access to counselors and proper guidance.
> Younger boys were abused and bullied by their
> peers and old boys.


How common were these abuses? Every week Every day?

What did the medical support issues look like, e.g. dental treatments? What about insurance for children at school?


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are under constant stress and fear of judgment.

Did you write letters to your parents? What were the parents' reactions?
My mother would accuse me of "false pity" and "false ego" and tell me it was my Karma. My father was a "Karmi". I was allowed only 10-15 minutes a month of tax with them.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We woke at 4am after only 5-7 hours of rest and
> took cold bucket showers, chanted in dark temple
> rooms, had moldy clothing, bad food and half-ass
> education based on hindu mythology about half-man
> half lion and pig avatars.

Did you sleep uncovered on a cold floor? Who cooked meals? Did you have symptoms of permanent loss of health, e.g. lost teeth, hair, etc.?

We slept with centipede and roach infested bedding on bunk beds while we heard brahmcaris masturbating above and below us. We cooked the meals. I developed bad mold allergies and had disentary. Skin infections and dental issues.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We were told these
> stories of complete fiction were unequivocal truth
> and were lead to believe they were literal and
> true historical events. We had zero education
> about other world religions and mythology from
> other world cultures. It was not till years later
> that I was able to finally study and see the
> origins of various hindu deities and the evolution
> of the Bhakti cult in India and put two and two
> together to understand that these stories were
> metaphorical ideas about the human psyche and
> various hodgepodge philosophic theories of the
> east.


Yes, I understand. In my case, I came across SIF Poland having already thoroughly studied in elementary and high school. And upbringing in a Catholic family, both parents avant-garde academic education. Religious parents, non-fanatic with understanding far beyond Catholic dogmas and without too much attachment to symbolism, liturgy. At the same time, I went beyond religious dogmatism very quickly, so I had more protection at SIF Poland.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Butler was the focal personality of worship,
> surrender and emulation. We stared at pictures of
> the youthful butler on the Alter

Have you been presented with photos of the aging Siddhaswarupananda?

Presented? No, but I have found and seen them online. It is not the images we were shown or grew up with. Always mid 1970s-80s Butler.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> every day and
> were told to distribute his books, often in
> vulnerable places like cemeteries and poor barrios
> and downtrodden neighborhoods where uneducated
> people were more likely to be influenced. It also
> helped that were were a bunch of white kids.

What language did you teach and sell publications? Have you learned the Filipino language? What were the reactions of people?

Publications were in English and Tagalog. I picked up some Tagalog, People either argues with us or took the booklets and told us to split.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Most parents were asked to send about $200/month
> to cover our care.

Did you have pocket money for small expenses? Did you have free time for entertainment or small shopping outside of school? Independently?

Sometimes my mother sent me some yeast and toilet paper or sweets. We did not get pocket money unless parent sent it. We did sneak out sometimes to buy candy other items like knives.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had zero access to parental
> comfort or care. Our parents were left join the
> west to become full-time servants of
> Butler—starting businesses for him, managing
> businesses, opening preaching centers and being
> his person servants: Cooking for him and his wife,
> folding his underwear, massaging him, putting
> tinfoil walls and air filtration systems
> throughout his house and abiding by his many
> neurotic kitchen and personal care rules. Some of
> these rules were as narcissistic as to ask
> devotees to pay Butler money if they accidentally
> left a dirty spoon in the dishwasher or some such
> bullshit.

Was he also massaged by women? And if so, were they also devotees?

No only men as far as I know. I assume he must have gotten the occasional massage by his own wife. At least I hope so.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Butler publicly shames his own disciples regularly
> and letters or lecture tapes were sent to all his
> disciples worldwide wherein he cursed and sweared
> at his personal servants or other devotees for
> things like seeking out a husband, not having
> mangoes available or storing his lecture tapes
> improperly and so forth. It ranged from silly
> things to downright absurd and neurotic. Devotees
> lived in shame, fear and guilt.


Yes, I confirm, there were several such lectures dealing with personal issues in public. However, I don't know how big the filter was. Most of the lectures did not arouse controversy.

You must have not listened to the same lectures then.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Butler approved certain devotees as "pure". They
> included, of course, his own wife (which he
> apparently gave up sanyas so he can "preach to
> woman" which has no scriptural source at all),
> Tusta Krishna das and Katyayani Devi Dasi. Mike
> Gabbard AKA Krishna Katha was considered a high
> ranking devotee and we were always told who to
> vote for and so forth (eroding the very meaning of
> democracy).

Yes i confirm In Poland, there were also symptoms of creating a vision that true pure devotees were only "on-site". Somehow because of physical proximity, destiny, etc.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Toenails of Butler, hair clippings or sand he
> walked on were regularly distributed as "Maha
> prasadam" which was eaten by devotees.

Are there any other such biological materials available? Also derived from Siddha Bellord?

Not from Siddha bellord. I do not know if people still have his toe clippings.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was constantly scandals throughout the
> mission. Instead of solving these things in a
> rational and respectful manner, Butler often
> exploded with anger and smashed everyone who was
> involved. There was no leading with love and
> mindful attention to how people may be affected.

This is the mechanism. There could be no success.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Millions of dollars were funneled for assorted
> projects of Butler's (many of which failed or
> never came to fruition) or just to maintain his
> elaborate care. There are countless letters were
> Butler is angry and critical of his Devotees for
> messing up some small part of his care. These were
> devotees with real jobs and kids to care for who
> were doing their best to be his person servants.


My personal feeling in Poland at some point was that letters could be written by another person. Can you confirm that some of the letters were not written by Siddhaswarupananda?

All were dictated by Butler and transcribed. Some were from his person secretary.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Information about Butlers based was often secret
> or we were told some sort of fantastical stories
> about Butler having achieved brhaman realization
> while he was a 17 year old LSD hippie in Hawaii.
> We were told silly stories about Butlers flesh
> burning at the base of his spine as he raised his
> Kundalini energy along his spinal column. We were
> told tales of Butler surrendering his large group
> of followers to Swami Prabhupada like some sort of
> tale from Chaitanya Charitamrita of Mayavadis
> surrending their followers to Mahaprabhu. It's
> comical now in retrospect, but we were kids and
> ate this shit up like ice cream on a hot summer
> day.

From my point of view, there were important points in the biography such as: attaining nirvakalpa samadhi, mystic yoga school teacher or individual approach to students. Materials on the web undermine each of them.

The guy was a LSD fueled playboy with a bunch of naive followers. He never achieved anything but a great acid trip.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As Butler devotees we had no exposure to the
> deeper traditions of the Vaishnava faith. We were
> not allowed to visit India or any of the
> pilgrimage spots, did not wear tilak or tradition
> vaishnava dress, neck beads, sika, dhotis and
> saris or even play instruments like mrdanga,
> supposedly dear to the founder of the Bhakti
> movement, Chaitanya.

This is surprising. In Poland there were drums in the centers, neck beads, people painted tilak while there was no wearing traditional Indian costumes. People in Poland at SIF did not have a special attraction to Hindu folklore, such as ISKCON.

Not anywhere else in the world. We chanted on clickers and black plastic beads. Tilak was worn at best on some special holiday like janmastami. Mrdanga was not played. Unless a bongo is the new mrdanga.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Believe what you want, but I don't feel any of the
> above has a place in modern hindu thought as
> literal and historic factual events. They are
> parables and symbolic tales at best and simple
> village stories in most cases. They have no place
> in a serious study and perusal of a spiritual
> practice regardless if they are of the Bhakti ilk
> or Jnana or Karma yoga variety.

From my point of view, various Indian philosophical or scientific schools have value. For example, learning about three modes of material nature. However, you can appreciate them after thorough study of mathematics, system dynamics, physics, psychology (e.g. Jung), reductionist analytics, etc. Of course, in depth and not as pseudo-eastern nonsense. For example, reductionism in the Bhagavad Gita is of scientific value.

How is reductionism mentioned in Gita and of some sort of scientific value? The Gita and SB are religious books, not words of any science. Gunas are not scientific by any measure. It's a hindu idea of nature interacting with the human mind and senses. It's got no verifiable or studied methodology to it's usefulness scientifically. SB is a bunch of stores woven together with theology and moral parables. Many of the moral and ethical parables are flawed and downright wrong. I'm not saying the books don't have value. They have value as part of a study of religions, history and culture in a class dealing with this topics. Not taught to kids by force and not as literal fact.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kids should not
> spend their childhood being fed this stuff or told
> to worship any guru unless it's in a more generic
> traditional guru/priest approach. A child should
> be allowed to play, be with their parents, have
> girls and boys as friends and learn contemporary
> academic courses, learn about world religions and
> cross-cultural mythology and eventually, as
> adults, find a spiritual guide on their own.


I agree completely. Freedom of choice regarding religion, value system etc.

I am able to imagine your burden of these experiences if it was an experience since childhood and not some stage in my life.

In my case, the controversial experience at SIF Poland, both inspirational and devastating, forced me to develop independent analytics.

Have SIF leaders ever tried to contact you to determine any form of redress?

Narottam Bishop once apologized for being a bully to me when I seeked out to call a few old mates from the school. Acharya das called me a few days after I launched my Baguio Brahmacharis Blog to ascertain my intent. Butler has always made an effort to get a pulse on ex-devotees and it's not uncommon for a letter to go out form butler warning his devotees of defunct devotees.

Were there symptoms of understanding your experiences at this school? Has there been any initiative in this direction?

I'm not clear on this question. But no, no one has every called to try to discuss or understand our position. In their eyes we are simply demons and karmic and offenders. They will not enter into a sane discussion about the history of Gaudiya Krishnaism or even hear any questioning about the lineage of Chaitanya or asking legitimate questions. Prabhupada would also get very agitated and angry when people questioned Krishna consciousness. He would get agitated and angry and call people fools and mudhas and sugars and so forth. There is no sane discussion with these types of people. It's their way or the highway. There are many lectures both audio and video where you can see a very arrogant looking Prabhupada being dismissive and making fun of reporters and people asking legitimate questions while his devotees fan him and yell "jaya prabhupada" as he cracks jokes and makes half-assed remarks to sincere questions made by journalists and lay people. Butler also looks very arrogant and is very dismissive in his lectures of anything that opposes his position. These are power hungry gurus who get off on being worshipped and listened to. They make a show of humility and will shed a tear if they have to impress some devotees, but in general they are quick to anger and offer no real answers to social issues and have skewed views on many topics. There are letters of Prabhupada saying that salt mixed with milk causes leprosy and that woman like being raped. The man thought the moon was further from us than the sun and was self luminous by virtue of Kusha Grass. I am sorry, but anything else that such a person says after making such deeply flawed and childish comments is a fool. A fool fooling fools. The man was addicted to snuff tobacco, had awful views about women, jews, hitler and africans. He married his wife at 12 years of age. Threatened to divorce her if she continued to drink tea. He made up silly sanyasi names that had nothing to do with the way that sanyasis were names in the Gaudiya tradition. His own spiritual master took sanyasi initiation in a dream and later in the mirror. Most verifiable accounts show that he had never become a legitimate disciple of Gorikashor Das. His father made up the birthplace of the prophet Chaitanya by virtue of, you guessed it, a vision in a dream. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find anything of major importance in the Gaudiya tradition that was not done by virtue of a dream or vision. This is childish nonsense. By what method is one to trust such personalities? Because they chant and cry? Because they surround themselves by fanatics who will do anything for them? The Gaudiya Math is riddles with horrible stories of abuses, cheaters, and men who would be nothing if not for the fanatics they surround themselves with. They all wear their gold watches, chains and rings, have businesses, bank accounts, and are critical of anyone outsider their groups. Conveniently, to question them, their behavior, practices, rituals etc, is a grave aparadha. The punishment? To never get the grace of Sri Radha—a character not once mentioned in any Vedic scripture or even the SB. A character made up by Bhakti Poets who were fixated on the erotic adventures of the cowherd god Krishna. Gaudiya are literally one of the few sects that even accept the concept of Radha. Very few groups outside of bengal even see Chaitanya as a incarnation of vishnu let alone a personality that really existed and did the things he was said to have done. There is little to no record outside the gaudiya stories found in Chaitanya Bhagavata and CC. Both of which have a questionable style of writing and lack of any historical structure. They are written like heavily opinionated stories you would find in any other religious group. Outside of Bengal and Orissa and Braja you can hardly find a record of this "god". This was during the renaissance. There was many royal dynasties in India recording the affairs of the times and Chaitanya is hardly mentioned as a footnote. What to speak of the bold claim of him being a Maha avatar with not a single mention in any Vedic works or even post Vedic Puranas and Samhitas. It's a darn joke. A typical Indian religion to make money. A hodgepodge of philosophical ideas and basically whatever works to sell the gurus. Traditionally, Gaudiya babajis sat around in kutirs and forests and chanted 20 hours a day. There surrender to their faith was singular. Now, we would be hard pressed to find a sanyasi who does not have a Facebook page and spends majority of their days tending to business affairs or building over-priced temples to attract wealth householders.