This is my first time posting on the Rick Ross forum and I apologise if I
have interrupted anyone as this is new to me.

I want to first thank the people who created and participate in this forum.
I was able to get on quick and I am glad to see that there are some people like me out there who have been exploited by "religious" cults
like harry kreeshna (deliberately misspelt in an attempt to supress
useless memories) and are able to overcome their influence.

I was very strongly influenced by this useless "philosophy" of ISKCON
since I was 12 and I am now 44.

I have a lot of things I would like to say but I must catch a bus home
but before I go I want to state that I really think "ISKCON" is dwindling
big time and with any luck we might see it become extinct.

I'll be back tomorrow to post a lot more, but until then does anybody
have any comment concerning the rate of speed that ISKCON is
dwindling? See you tomorrow.

One thing I remember and always thought was quite odd was this incident: When they started the school in Honolulu one of the young boys wanted to get a skate board or roller blades (I forget which as this was maybe 20 years ago). The young student sent a letter to guru mentioning this... Guru says no, no, no - student is not allowed to have skate board. BUT at the same time guru owned one or two expensive surf boards and would spend much of the day surfing!

Seems like these gurus get on this "I'm the king of the castle and you're the dirty rascals" kind of trip?

Someone asked earlier if there really were any ex-krsnas on this thread. I am such a person.

If you want to ask a question about that cult go ahead and ask and i'll
try to answer.

These people exploited me out of the best years of my life, but for the
interests of advancing knowledge I will give you an unbiased answer
according to what i've seen and heard over 30 yrs. of associating with
"devotees".

Hey Bob,

Here is one awful experience I had with such a "devotee" - Here is a person who spends 6 hours a day religiously chanting the "names of God" and has done so for many years. Yet, the strange thing was that all the nasty qualities that this chanting was supposed to "cure" seemed to be having the exact opposite effect.

In other words, this person was developing these qualities: extreme enviousness, extreme intolerance, extreme hatefulness, extreme arrogance, and just plain extreme obnoxiousness.

Also, you would think that any kind of meditation process would produce the side effects of "peace of mind"... however this "devotee" seems to have less peace of mind that the so-called "karmis"

PS - "Karmi" = somebody who works for a living to provide a roof over their heads and food on the table.

Just Googling-

In response to your post, the one thing that comes to my mind would be the list of excuses I would get if I posed this question to a cult member:

1. The "devotee" was not refraining from commiting any of the 10 great
offenses against chanting.
2. YOU are not being humble enough to appreciate his association.
3. You are being too critical.
4. Try not to look at the craters on the moon, but see the moon itself (basically the same as #3).
5. You must have interrupted his "sadhana" with your petty complaint.
6. It is just YOUR bad karma being minimized. Why don't you appreciate
THAT??
7. Prabhu, don't you know that self-pity is the highest form of sense gratification??
8. It's just "purification", so quit crying and accept the mercy!

I could keep going, but I think you get the picture...

By the way, was this person in a position of "authority"?

A lot of krishna "authorities" seem to enjoy taking out their problems
on dependents. Must be "purification" I guess.

Dear "Just Googling"--

I had to split my reply in to two posts because I think this browser or
something cuts me off if I type too long a post.

I'm sorry for the late reply but at this point in life i'm not always around
a computer though I will be this Saturday (today).

One final note as far as the person you are referring to in your post:
Chanting anything does'nt change a person's character

only the force of human will can do that.

--Bob

IMO, the only thing that changes human behavior is a desire to change. This is almost inevitably brought about by pain, either your own, (usually), or that of others.
In order to be compelled to change because of other's people's pain, you have to have a high degree of empathy.
Not to mention a willingness to look at and admit your own imperfections.
Hurting others in the name of God is common to all religious fanatics, and self-justifiable if one believes they are doing the will of God.

That's the problem with believing you are the spokesman for God.
You can justify anything you want to.

Hey Bob,

You're right that they always have an answer to try and explain things like that away...

Just like when something bad happens to somebody, the usual retort is "It's their karma." However, even though part of me still believes in the "As you sow, so shall ye reap" philosophy, I still have a very hard time understanding, for example, what all those people did who suffered through the Tsunami in Indonesia, etc. for instance... What, supposedly, could someone have done in their past life to deserve THAT???

And you're right that they will reply "Well if you're not getting purified, then you are chanting offensively blah blah blah..." But so many people (and myself included here) were seriously and religiously and very ernestly following all the rules and regulations, but ended up on the trash heap and their lives just got worse and worse both materially (because they were donating everything to "the cause") and emotionally (rejected by the hierarchy of the group), and even spiritually (i.e. getting nowhere fast).

By the way, the person I mentioned in the last post was not a person of authority in the group (although they are desirous of starting their own "temple" and of course failing at it).

Quote
barabara
IMO, the only thing that changes human behavior is a desire to change. This is almost inevitably brought about by pain, either your own, (usually), or that of others.
In order to be compelled to change because of other's people's pain, you have to have a high degree of empathy.
Not to mention a willingness to look at and admit your own imperfections.
Hurting others in the name of God is common to all religious fanatics, and self-justifiable if one believes they are doing the will of God.

That's the problem with believing you are the spokesman for God.
You can justify anything you want to.

I thank you for your wealthy reply Barbara. Please don't be offended
if I have'nt replied until now as I am not near a computer all the time.
I actually just spent about 20 minutes typing a reply to your post (it was
rather in-depth) and for some odd reason, this browser or the internet
just "cut me out" and I lost the reply I typed.
Aside from this, I agree strongly with your reply as I have personal experience of my own religious indoctrination compelling me to believe
I was doing the will of God. How can there really be a God when there
are so many people suffering such perplexing conditions? Have you
ever seen the movie "the devil's advocate"? Sometimes I feel that if there is a god he must be sitting up there laughing in delight at people
suffering!
Anyhow, I don't dare type any longer than this and lose the post, at
least until I figure this thing out.
Your reply is wealthy and makes many good points. I definately appreciate it.
Thanks,Bob.

(If you type your post in word or notepad, then copy and paste you will avoid the problem of your post disappearing as the login seems to time out.)

I have no firm opinion on the existence of God.
If God's representative walks the earth right now, I'd be willing to bet that I've never met him, or even met anyone else who has, for that matter.
Suffering is one thing; suffering at the hand of a self-appointed spokesman for God is another altogether.