Hi, I just wrote this article about my life long friends inside the cult who seem in the world to be cool surfer kids, but they have not afforded me the human decency in 9 years of talking to me as their friend beyond the orders of the cult.
This really bothers me, and they are actively completely ignoring me in the recent weeks, despite my best attempts to communicate.

I guess this is What Nanda Ormond wanted.

Nanda Ormond worships Chris Butler

Thanks VoxVeritas and Corboy. I hadn't actually looked at it from the addiction perspective, but that does make a lot of sense. Addiction runs very strongly in my family, so that fits completely with the behaviours I have seen. Their 5am worship sessions are no different to my grandmothers 5am drinking sessions. And so the cycle continues, with a different drug. It does take the sting out a little bit. It wasn't my failure after all. And like any child of an addict I felt like I had failed because I couldn't stop my parents addiction. I think I might do some reading on that now, to help understand my own behaviours I think. I'm reading Rick Ross's book as well, as a few other things. Just trying to educate myself further on everything and start making sense of it all. It's honestly still very challenging to wrap my head around everything, the programming is still very strong in some areas, and can cause a bit of distress challenging, so I'm just working on it slowly. A bit like rebuilding a Jenga tower to change the foundation.

Rama - You already know my thoughts on your article, your real family and friends are those who wont judge you for disagreeing with them. You should be able to freely explore your feelings without repercussion. I know how you feel though. My cousin was like a sister to me, we were so close that every time her family moved, I would be utterly distraught. It was so painful to find out she had blocked me from all parts of her profile, before I had said anything, just because I was out and refused to call her by her new Chris Butler name. She was given a name at birth, that was the name I knew her by the time that we were still close, that's the only name I will acknowledge. I'm sick of identity being a fluid concept, used to contain and control Chris Butler minions. If you have no way of truly knowing yourself, you have no foundation to fight his influence, that's why he makes people lose their identity. People Traffickers do the same with slaves for this reason. It's part of the breaking/mind control process (http://discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/after-slavery/wider-world/african-diaspora/identity-and-roots/) (http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/mind-control.html). And while I don't want to compare us to what those who went through actual slavery went through, which is much worse, there are parallels. We were lucky that we had such strong sense of selves regardless, we were able to break free. The work we are doing will hopefully reach others and start to help them work on their own sense of selves, and develop the courage to break free as we have.

This is an old but good book - When God Becomes a Drug by Leo Booth

[www.google.com]

If you go on Bookfinder Dot Com, you can run a search and comparison price
both new and used copies.

More here:

[www.google.com]

Yet more

[www.google.com]

[www.google.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 08:21AM by corboy.

The addiction model might be a way to grasp how parents can be so influenced
as to neglect their children.

Crack addicted - parents, Guru addicted - parents

Nevertheless, we must beware lest cult apologists (aka devotional enablers)
say, "Only weak, inferior people get hooked. They corrupt the guru."

No.

What distinguishes a cult from a wholesome group is -- cult involvement begins
with deceit.

With lies.

You are not told the leader needs you more than you need him.

You are not told full disclosure about the leader's actual background.

You are not give full information about the group's finances, nor are
you told where the money is coming from.

You are not told about the extent to which the leader demands subservience
behind closed doors.

Had you known this stuff you'd not have gotten involved.

This makes a cult different, indeed distinguishes a cult from other types of groups.

The term 'cult' is so emancipatory that we find many who try to discredit the term by claiming it is pejorative, that "New Religious Movement" is a better
descriptor. Or the very clever gurus find ways to train disciples to joke "Oh, sure we are a cult". Turning it into a cute joke is an effective method of distraction and a way to drain the power from a useful word. This strategy is called co-option

No.

A genuine religion does not begin with someone who has contempt for recruits and utilizes deceit.

If we take Jesus as an example, in the Greek Scriptures, he warned followers
that if they got involved with him, they'd suffer rejection from their families and from society.

In short, Jesus warned them of the risks.

IMO had Jesus behaved like your typical cultic guru, he'd have conned
the beloved disciple to take the blame and be executed, while Jesus would
have scooted off to retirement in a fancy villa somewhere.

So, cults begin with deceit. Often with small lies, but over time, the lies
become serious.

If you'd been given full disclosure about Butler, how many of you would have
joined?

Though perhaps with addiction, it begins with lies.

The drug moguls don't love you for your unique and beautiful soul.

They regard their dealers and mules as expendable and disposable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 08:20AM by corboy.

The problem with most addicts is that they don't think they need help. And if they do, they would think that outside is a scary world. They have invested so much within the four walls they are into, to let go is like to become a child again. So they would rather stick to status quo -- depend on the same drug dealer and other addicts they deal with all their lives, to get along to go along, day in day out, meanwhile zapping dry their real potentials and creativity they have been gifted with to have a real and full life to live by. In a way they are right. Outside is really dark, and that is the way they are taught the outside world is, not knowing that day and night is how the world turns and operate, wherever planet you live on. So they would huddle in a very cramp space, together with like-minded sorties, believing and sharing the same tales and fears -- that theirs is the better choice and the besiegers are out there to get them. Finally, there's the high, the center of their crampy world. They get as much otherworldly feeling to numb and blind them from reality, but for what price?

Fortunately, there are just a handful of hardcore addicts that willfully choose the lifestyle. Anyone with an average mental faculty can recognize reality from the idealized pseudo-reality, especially at this age. People have reference -- thankfully, we can all look back to the experimental decades during the 60s and 70s and know full well the ravages drug depency brought to society, especially to families with children.

Now, translate the above to religious addiction. Who in their right mind nowadays would be addicted to religion? Not many. But when religion is cloaked in trendy lifestyle or a brand, then it gets more complicated. Not only do practitioners would have to deny that they are addicted, they also would not think that theirs is a religion. The yoga movement in the West has evolved from being originally about mindfulness and self-realization to an economic dynamo of healthy lifestyle centered on the physical exercises aspect of yoga. The Science of Identity is clever enough to cloak their outdated theology with the trend that enable them to continue funneling down hundreds, perhaps thousands of clueless youthful new members into its brand of religion from its trendy yoga front. Whether it's working or not, what is so insidious about Chris Butler is that he does not care about the number. He cares more about those few hardcore would be followers who would go all the way; who he could kick 24/7 and won't bite back. But are there such people? Indeed there are. Have you heard of the battered wife syndrome? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_person_syndrome

They are not exactly addicts, but close. Instead of drugs, sufferers are addicted to the persona of the abuser. They long for the physical and psychological battery as an expression of love. There are times when he or she could not take it anymore that the abused bolt out of the relationship only to get back the next day to get beaten up black and blue, again and again. And the abuser is usually a gifted swooner. Do worshippers of Chris Butler suffer from "battered wife syndrome"? l don't know. Perhaps. My concern is not with those who have chosen to enter in this relationship, it is something that they have to finally face and resolve by themselves, but the children, if they do have, because they are the ones that are caught in between, and did not choose to be in this relationship in the first place.

Rama, my friend, what courage!



The image of your newspaper coverage deserves to be posted to this message board where I first read the story about you being denied attendance at your Father's funeral. Thank you for putting a face on the victims of cult abuse. Read Rama's outrage at Chris Butler's orders here:

Flash

P.S. That is Allan Tibby wearing grey sweats, the outfit worn by jagad guru Chris Butler and also by inmates at Federal Prisons like cult member Patrick Bowler.

Excellent posts one and all!

Now as to Dharmabum’s possibly rhetorical question regarding whether or not Butler’s worshippers suffer from “battered wife syndrome”, THEY ABSOLUTELY DO !
And they come back for more, hence the “addiction”.
You tell me how many times this royal pain in the arse, Butler, can call you a “C_ _ T” and you put up with it?
Worse yet, (and shame on you), you come back the next day and prostrate yourself even more to deliver some token offering and its rejected- and you are rejected - again.
Oh come on, its gets worse- now you are all ordered to wear paper bags on your heads...for weeks!
It doesn’t get any more insane than this, people!
Wake the F_ _ K Up!

And THIS...has been going on for decades......

Sorry guys, I can't help it. Are those sweats the "If Style is not an Option (Registered Trademark)" brand? I remember in the old days, Chris loved to wear turtle necked, and we all did, haha.

Right Rama and dharmabum.

Yep. Sweat pants, turtle neck, and silk Chinese or fleece jacket (this little number is in VD clown colors).

WHY IS THIS MAN SMILING?

Smiling all the way to the bank and presumably passing out toenail clipping "Maha".
He is probably smiling while humiliating a follower.




Here are some great posts from the past. I do not think a majority of followers get an opportunity to see this side of Butler since he has been secluding himself like Howard Hughs in the last decade or more.

Vox & dharmabum ~ As the following reports validate, battered wife syndrome indeed.

Quote
QUOTESMAN
Maybe subconsciously we did see his egomania developing and turned a blind eye to it, because we believed in the Krishna philosophy so much ?
It is kind of like two lines that appear to be parallel but are just slightly off in the beginning but as the lines advance down the row it becomes apparent they are not actually parallel. In the beginning it was not so easy to see but now after some 30-35 years it is obvious.

quotesman
Date: November 13, 2006 :

Question by disciple,” If you have illicit sex and lose your semen do you lose your intelligence?”

Siddha, “Is that why you are so fu##king stupid???”


Q. My wife is hard to get along with, we are having problems.

Siddha, “You married a fu##king truck and now you’re wondering why you got run over.”

Female disciple that just came back from the beauty parlor with a new hair do.

Siddha, “What the fu#k happened to your head?”

Siddha to his female disciple on the phone, “You fu#king cunt, you fu#king whore!!!”

More:

Butler hands a huge cookie to woman disciple. She accepts it willingly because it is “Maha” prasadam. Butler then says, “Put this whole cookie in your mouth. Don’t bite it. Stuff the whole thing in.” She complies while the whole room is roaring in laughter.
Butler was pissed at her because she spoke to the media without his permission during a political campaign.
Butler says, “Stuff it all in because you have a big mouth.” Everyone laughs at her. He goes on to seriously admonish and humiliate her. She ends up crying and bowing down to his feet begging for forgiveness.

Butler laughs and instructs a male follower to get on his hands and knees and eat half a watermelon like a dog. Everyone is laughing including the guy who complies. Then Butler says: “You are fat and lazy so you have to eat like a pig.” Follower no longer laughs but has his face down in the watermelon.

Female disciple comes to a gathering looking pretty. Butler asks her if she is wearing makeup. She blushes and says, “A little.” (She looks nice and normal. She is not wearing the excessive makeup Wai Lana wears).
Butler turns to her husband and says, “This is why you are so poor and have no fu#cking money!”

Butler to an initiated female disciple who wants to get married: “What are you? A fu#king dog in heat!?”

Quote
More from quotesman:
The last time I glanced in the policy book I turned to page 538 or something and read the policy for serving fearless leader while he went skiing with his family. Yep he not only likes to surf but skiing is also a pastime. It read something like the servant was not supposed to laugh or smile if fearless leader was having fun and joking with his wife etc., something like that. The servant was to remember he was there to serve not take part in the fun.

Just googling:

"Wheelchair guy" also made a bunch of money with some scam of selling fishy airline tickets at the airport. I guess people felt sorry for him as he was in the wheelchair. Then he handed all this big wads of cash to the Prabooofraud at a gathering. Of course, Prabooofraud blasted him big-time for doing this - not sure of the reason - as I'm sure he did want the cash! But as we all know, the Prabooofraud had a habit of blasting everyone in sight.

Then there was the NZ chap who asked a question, something about "does the spritual master like a certain kind of flower, a certain kind of fruit.?" and he got grilled big-time as well. I never could understand this - as the NZ guy was just trying to be a nice guy...

More from quotesman:

"You are all demons, you are just like f###king ISCON, You’re all
condemned!!!"

"I am not condemning you, you are condemning yourself."

"My Godbrothers in Iskcon are clumps of dog stool."

"If I don’t want to answer you, you are at fault not me."

"If you don’t know you are not supposed to know."

"Tell that a-hole the only way he can come to a gathering is if he pays 100
dollars each time."

"Tell a-hole I changed my mind, he has to pay 1,000 dollars every gathering
he comes to."

"As soon as you realize you have nothing to offer me and you don’t know
anything maybe then I can teach you something."

"It is your fault, the guru is faultless."

"My disciples make me sick."

"You would think with 25 kitchen servants and 35 preparations a day,
spending over a hundred dollars a meal, you a##holes could make something
good to eat. Instead I have to go to a Chinese restaurant to get a bite to
eat. A-holes!!!'"

"You fool! Don’t say the metal detectors are to detect guns, say they are to
detect beeper watches, you know what a great offense it is to wear one near
me. Oh I am so irritated by that sound!!!"

"Damn it keep your gun in your bead bag. That’s what it is for idiot!! You
probably thought you were supposed to keep beads in that bag. Fool!!! I
have to teach you guys everything!!!"

"WTF is a##hole doing here, tell him to get the f##k out of here."

"Tell J--- I don’t want to see his face, but because I have to talk to him
and deal with him, he can wear a bag over his head, then I don’t have to
see his face."

"I am more humble than anyone, even my own guru."
"Damn bogus guru! They all have guruitis."
"My disciples all have guruitis too!!!"
[“Guruitis” is a term Butler used to describe a follower who is envious and wants to be a guru. Of course no one can be guru but Butler alone.]

"My disciples are all f###king neophytes."
"Everyone has guruitis but me and VD."

"Insulting VD is worse than insulting me you idiot."

"Are those a-holes still running that store in Lahaina, why don’t they give
it to DTE, a-holes--- and they call themselves my disciples make all kinds
of money while their kids skate and surf, a-holes, they should give it to
me."

"WTF!!!!.. you guys have been working on getting this house together for 6
weeks now. You expect me to live here after you shit all over it??? You
missed a space there dumb shit, cover it with tin foil so I can live here
in peace. Straighten out your germ mask idiot."

"Tell Sankirtan das to stay out of my house, he has dirt between his toes."

"Tell Wayne and Krishna das, WTF, I let them get into politics and now they
act just like politicians!!!! They became politicians those buttheads!!"

"I let my disciples dress like karmis and materialist and now they act like
karmis and materialists, a-holes."

"Call the head of personal service, everyone fast for 6 months, the milk in
the refrigerator is out of date. Call a meeting worldwide. Tell the head
of personal service to get her ass here right now!! WTF is this hair doing
in my soup gaddamit. Tell everyone fast for a year, six months is too
lenient. Tell the head of personal service not only must she fast from food
and water she has to fast from sleep too!!!” Get that sh###t out of here,
you call that prasadam, a-holes!!!” Everyone is fined 1,000 dollars each.!!!"

"You spend a fuggen 100,000 dollars on this air machine and I still have to
use an oxygen bottle, can’t you guys do anything right??"

"What you expect me to breathe, common air?? A-holes!!"

"What? Just because you come here and clean my floor and wash my dishes,
eat my toenails and drink my footwater you think you have the right to talk
to me, write me a letter a-hole."

"The only person I can trust is VD."

"The guru is never attached to the opposite sex."
"Where is VD, I have not seen her in the last 10 minutes."
"What you think I spend all my time with my wife because I am attached?
A-hole this is pure devotional service, me and VD will serve together in
the spiritual world too you envious snake!!"

"The pure devotee is peaceful and does not need anything or anyones
service, he has Krsna."
"The pure devotee is self satisfied, always peaceful and never troubled by
the duality of the world."
"The servant of Krishna has no enemies."

"What is that A-hole doing here, I told him get the hell out of Hawaii and
go back to New Zealand."

"Ok you can take off the bag now, I think you learned your lesson."