Date: December 02, 2013 06:55AM


"I was involuntarily trapped at a Hare Krishna cult/commune in Hawaii. Took me a week to figure out how to escape. Glad you made this movie." Comment made to Vikram Gandhi, producer of Kumare, in which VG impersonated a guru.

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IamA that regular guy that pretended to be guru in the movie Kumaré. I'm Vikram Gandhi. AMA! (self.IAmA)
submitted 1 year ago* by vikramgandhi

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

UPDATE: Alright guys, thanks for all the great questions, that's my time for today. This was awesome, I had a great time entering the world of Reddit. Until next time!

Ok, this is more like it. Hi Reddit, I'm Vikram Gandhi, someone told me about this thread the other day about Kumaré and I wanted to come here and talk to you guys, so I'm here! Bring on the questions.

I wrote and directed the film – it comes out in NYC at the IFC Center on June 20th. You can watch the trailer here. I'm new to this, but I'm gonna answer as many of your questions as I can for the next few hours.
Verification: [twitter.com]

Questioner:

Were you or any of your friends/family involved in a cult at any particular time? If not, what inspired you to make a movie depicting guru/cult seduction?
Btw, I was involuntarily trapped at a Hare Krishna cult/commune in Hawaii. Took me a week to figure out how to escape. Glad you made this movie.


[–]vikramgandhi 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago

Never trapped or even in a cult. But I did grow up in a religious environment, and met a lot of spiritual leaders and gurus that forced me to ask a lot of questions.


[–]vikramgandhi 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago

· Kumaré is totally based on indian mythology and indian gurus I met as a kid. He closest to a siva sadhu in dress. This project was born out of my own perception of eastern religions and its new form in America. Kumaré effect my view point on these things , for sure. But mostly confirmed that the search what's 'authentic' in spiritual may be a futile one.

Questioner)Did you ever try to talk to other gurus at mandirs as Kumare or did that not happen?
·

Vikram Gandhi yes. i met a ton of other gurus. often they gave me their business card!
·

Questioner: I'm just surprised that no one had any doubts about your background/knowledge. I don't feel like I would be able to get away with something like that despite having multiple discussions about dharma fairly regularly.
I guess the biggest thing for me would be not knowing Sanskrit. Do you know sanskrit or hindi?

Vikram Gandhi

Yes I read and write Sanskrit. The reality is being from a religious home and having nerded out about hindu texts and stories, I probably new more about vedic philosophy and the like than most 'real' sadhus i met.

Also Kumaré spoke a fictional language called Pogri, which comes from a fictional place called Aali'kash, therefore his Hindi is a little bit crappy. Other gurus thought that guy is from a place i never heard of but a camera crew seems to think he is important
.
[–]vikramgandhi[S

There is a bit an explanation of my background in the film. I grew up in the Arya Samaj tradition, and learned vedanta as well.

...
Kumaré is meant to inspire people to realize they don't need a guru. That the personal changes that people make, their transformation is coming from inside them, and not from a man from a foreign man. I'd feel bad if I never created Kumaré.
·
·
Vikram Gandhi

However, nothing was scripted. No one was "acting" or given lines, (besides myself and my teaching assistants). Plus I was pretty much improvising the whole. But we didn't know who would make the film, nor how it would turn out. Its a straight documentary. It simply feels surreal because our situation was quite surreal.

[–]throwaway1234xxx

Did you bang any of your followers? The trailer seems highly suggestive along those lines?

·
(Another questioner)I think that making this movie must have taken you a lot of courage and I am looking forward for an opportunity to see it. Was there ever any moment where you considered stopping/quitting? I have a lot of other questions, but the movie might answer those ;)
·

Vikram Gandhi)I do think the answers to this is in the film. But in general,We were constantly taking a step back and thinking about the entire project, and remembering the reasons we were making it. It was all about being focussed on the greater message of the film - so as long as we focused on those things, and made sure the people around us had a positive experience while with us, we were straight.

Another questioner

Why do you think people look outside themselves for the answer to enlightenment, and do you feel that you grew spiritually in the making of this movie?
·

I think its totally natural to look outside ourselves - but with spirituality, you can't purchase, consume, or absorb what is actually in internal thing. Making this film personally saved me from being a cynic. skepticism can be spiritual.

[–]vikramgandhi

SPOILER ALERT - I think that each person has their own specific reaction and effect. The people I am in contact with have told me that the experience has been very positive. I also think that the public reaction to the film may have an effect on the people in as well.

Question

How long did you pretend to be a guru? I saw something somewhere that said "years" but I was wondering if you could elaborate.

[–]vikramgandhi
Kumaré was tested in the world a number of times over the years before the film was made. The film however was mostly shot over 4 months.
·
You have all the means and wisdom to be happy already inside you.
One thing lead to another. At some point I teamed up with college friends who had been working in production and started a company together. So the answer is: hustle.

Question) Did anybody who held a very strong belief in your teachings confront you after you revealed that you were a fake? If so, were they particularly angry, or just confused and upset?


Vikram Gandhi there are a variety of reactions - it runs the gamut - as you can imagine.
·

Question Did you ever get attached to any of the people that you had tricked in the movie? Like, maybe felt sympathy for them and tell them its not real?

Vikram Gandhi Yes, I felt very close to many people while making this film, and continue to. And I of course sympathized with them, as this film is about all of us, and what we all want to believe in. It is not about 'those' people. I saw myself in everyone i met.

Question: **Are you still in touch with some of Kumaré's followers? If so, how is that personal bond working?

[–]vikramgandhi[S
I am with a number of people, and consider them good friends. It's not a guru/student thing, we are more friends who live far away geographically from one another.
**
[–]mersah

Was the purpose of this movie only to show that everyone can be fooled, even those who seek a Guru sincerely? Did you at any time feel like you were betraying the sincerity of an individual by mocking them?

Have you ever met a true Guru or someone who you thought could have been? If not, did that motivate you to create this movie? If you had met a real Guru, would that have changed your viewpoint?

Vikram Gandhi

The message of the film is inspired by the Zen koan: "If you meet the buddha in the road, kill the buddha." The film is a spiritual riddle in a way; i wanted it to be funny, make you think, and expose some truth.
One can say that 'meeting a real Guru' is more about the seeker than the one being sought. This film is about projection.

[–]wizardsyndrome 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago

I am someone who has "discovered," became a semi-serious practitioner, and now almost completely dropped out of practicing Kundalini Yoga all within the course of the past year. My reason for dropping out was finding out about some really "unguru-like" allegations about a leader and guru-like figure in the movement (Yogi Bhajan). I find it interesting that the deplorable actions of a revered "guru" in recent history can damage the perception of a "sacred practice" that long pre-dates the questionable "guru". I guess that's the problem when people place so much importance on guru-like figures.
Okay so I gotta ask a question...Given all of your experience up to today, Do you still believe that certain practices like yoga and meditation are inherently scared? Or are they just placeboes that serve to show us the sacredness that already exists within us? Thanks :)
·

Vikram Gandhi

I think we are the ones that decide what is sacred. I think physiologically meditation and yoga are really healthful, and really needed by a lot of us that have too much stimuli constantly hitting us. When it comes to these subjects, placebos can have the same effect as what were told is 'real'. Its all a mind trick anyway. This film is all about illusions being helpful in creating whats true.

[–]wizardsyndrome 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on
Thank you for responding!

Vikram Gandhi I agree that meditation and yoga can be excellent tools to refresh and even re-wire ourselves in an increasingly chaotic modern world. Inside all of us is a luminous "gem", a higher-self, capable of producing immense joy and transformation. If we can just turn down the volume on the outer stimuli of this world and clear out some of the internal dust and cobwebs, that light can shine through and transform ourselves and inspire others.


Questioner: I've never heard of you or this film before, but after seeing the trailer, I'm very interested, having grown up (and out of) a cult-ish family and mindset.
Question: while being Kumaré, did you notice some followers striving toward a form of extreme fundamentalism within your teachings, and if so, how did you deal with it?
·

Vikram Gandhi

I do think some people were way more literal than others. Some more fixated on Kumaré than what Kumaré was saying. Some more fixated on the 'authentic' and 'exotic' in Kumaré than the person they were meeting. Everyone's different - some people express themselves more openly, some are not as loud. I don't think there was any fundamentalism, but some people were extremely convinced and fixated on Kumaré being a real guru with some magical power.


I have a few questions:
· It seems in your interviews that you're being very careful not to mock or offend any of the people that "followed" you, but obviously this is going to be a natural reaction for many who see the film. Did you do this with the intent to point out how gullible/dumb people are, and then have a change of heart after you actually got to know some of them? Put another way, how has the tone and intent of the finished film differed from it's inception?

·[–]RajMahal77
Another Indian-American here. Saw the trailer and was blown away. That's gotta be one of the riskiest things I've ever seen. You totally pull off the part though. Reminded me a lot of many of the spiritual leaders that I grew up around. I think it's also a really important film that you made. It asks us to ask some very deep questions about religion, faith, and some of our most personal beliefs or lack thereof. Saw the trailer initially on the Apple Movie Trailers website. Hope it does well and wish you luck in your filmmaker career. It's a tough biz to make it in but if you had the courage to pull off this film, then you can definitely make it :-)
·

(Another questioner)
Looks like you met bhagavan das, how was that? He wrote a book about all the dirty things he's done haha...
but the truth for me has been that Alan Watts saved my life, did you ever read his stuff? The teacher i listen to now is Mooji, he's incredible

Hi Vikram, I saw Kumare at the Cucalorus Film Festival this past November and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I remember at the end of the film many people left when they found out the truth about yourself. Have those people tried to contact you at all after the release of Kumare?

If so, what have been your interactions with them?
My final question: I know that this whole process was a life altering quest for not only you, but the people you affected. What is your final words of wisdom that you hope to give to people?

Vikram Gandhi

SPOILER ALERT: these are big questions - some people are back in contact, yes. And many have seen the film. - I am very close to a number of them, and thing of them as good friends. Words of wisdom - Listen to what's inside you, and do what you believe

we must remember that the Butler Cult is in a "Frenzy" at this point in time. Butler has started to initiate multiple individuals at an alarming rate, (as Dabcult stated)...more than ever seen in decades. No doubt the mind control master has found a new tool (perhaps a rock star in politics???) who now makes the people chant even louder, pray even harder, Give more $$. let us not chase the tail of this cult... (the followers) but the head of this snake is Mr. Butler himself. He thrives on control and intimidation... be mindful that his "servants of deceit" monitor this very forum...or they may be members posting here. yup be warned of private messages.. they are watching and they are among us.- and to the watchful eye of the Science of Identity.. hi, your desire to have your own prophesy enacted is well at hand. you will be prosecuted by the masses...- AC is now allowed to post on this forum... and I will keep doing so, Mr. Chris Butler, your false prophet days are numbered....AC-

I have been looking for an opening to a credible, fearless, investigative journalist (for example, of the stature of Glenn Greenwald) to bring the Tulsi story to light of day.

If anyone knows potential muscle to take on this cult in the media or blog worlds (for example, the long-time editor (Reed Fleckinger) of West Hawaii Today was 'let go' last May and replaced with David Bock as 'roving news director'. While I know Fleckinger didn't have any balls (except for abusing those around him), and although I doubt that Bock has the budget or cajones for such an undertaking, I don't know that for sure. Regardless, I don't know him or anyone who does.

I imagine this will have to arise from a national or international level (maybe from within the Hindu community outraged with Tulsi's and her family's fraud).

Any ideas?

Soggy, if the purpose is to "get" the gabbards... I am not sure if that is the right way to go. If you so do choose to do so... would the idea be to smear her name and her family name? will that help with bringing Mr. Butler down? she and her family are the "followers" not the leaders.. or leader... Mr. Butler needs to be exposed. his sham of a Wai-Lana yoga TV show. that needs to be exposed. if you carefully work to dislodge the leader.. all the followers will crumble. What is Mr. Butler hiding.. I say go for the head of the snake, not the tail.
AC-

AC4711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Soggy, if the purpose is to "get" the gabbards...
> I am not sure if that is the right way to go. If
> you so do choose to do so... would the idea be to
> smear her name and her family name? will that help
> with bringing Mr. Butler down? she and her family
> are the "followers" not the leaders.. or leader...
> Mr. Butler needs to be exposed. his sham of a
> Wai-Lana yoga TV show. that needs to be exposed.
> if you carefully work to dislodge the leader.. all
> the followers will crumble. What is Mr. Butler
> hiding.. I say go for the head of the snake, not
> the tail.
> AC-

Thanks, Ac.

I'm thinking that Tulsi is a public face for the fraud that could be fully exposed in an extensive expose (ala Rolling Stone). She's where the magician is pointing us with his misdirection, and where an insidious form of power is consolidating.

Butler will soon die, and a cult of personality like his will not likely not survive his personal demise.

Oh it will crumble... the fight for the "power position" has been consolidated "the money follow the money" the Wai-Lana family will retain the financial benefit. The Spiritual leader... that is the real question. Mr. Butler has built up an "ok" sized level of followers... It will at first to Splinter.. .the people who have their hands in the $$ will hold on to it ( down to earth people, Wai-Lana people... they have their names on "Legal" documents) But his successor... the next in line the "The Disciplic Succession" has not been established... Mr. Butler follows in the line of AC baktivedanta , not this one --> [www.bhagavad-gita.org]

some are seen as leaders, but most of his disciples are pretty flawed... have been around for Years (marriages divorce, messed up stories about their lives) there is no "pure" one among them. The leadership of the group is not really there. History does repeat, (when AC bakti vedanta died... all hell broke lose (12 goswamis, butler left.. splinter...) as AC bakti vedanta said when he left Godia-math "appoint, appoint, appoint!" with great anger that they would appoint a leader, as the leader will transcend and be "revealed... Mr. Butler will die, people will mourn .. but what really happens next (if I am alive to see this) will be quite interesting...

Hi SD and AC- let the denunciations begin!

When the families of the new initiates get wind of what has happened to their loved one, they will immediately google the names of Butler and the organization. They will absolutely find this forum, so it is imperative for one and all to continue posting and to provide as much information as possible.
Use the two-prong approach, on the one side aim your efforts to dislodging and discrediting Tulsi from the political spotlight. On the other side, aim your efforts to exposing Wai Lana and her many false fronts (businesses). Wai Lana Inc, provides much $$ for Butler while Tulsi may give him the power and control he has always lusted after.

Corboy:

One can keep this forum thread up on the screen by typing in 'bump' if there is no current information. Visitors can at least see how many pages are there.

And, a tip to new readers: this message board is searchable. Because this message board is 11 years old put 'all dates' whenever you run a search. That will cover the bases.

Two, any time a new reader arrives, greet that person and advise that he or she has *no* obligation to answer any question and if he or she gets intrusive, unpleasant or weird private messages, send copies of them to Rick Ross (rrmoderator).

And if a new visitor arrives, the rest of us should not allow anyone to provide a distracting presence (aka trolling) by filling the discussion with noise.

The stuff to follow is money, politics, and how to get the heavy weight media to give necessary attention to this festering ulcer on the body politic.

From my knowledge of this destructive cult ( a vast knowledge). It is destructive.
the Guru, Chris Butler, AKA Jagad Guru, AKA Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, AKA Sai, is not a man to be trusted or followed. What he presents himself to be is a Sham.His blind followers see him as the absolute truth, the Actual Living Representative of God on earth. They Actually believe that he can be more powerful than Jesus. His Followers believe he has "Mystic Powers" he can raise the dead, he can walk on water, they believe he has can talk to god. This is not a joke in anyway. His disciples take him as good as "GOD". They believe he can Heal the sick, they believe he can create planets, travel to distant universes, he can "defy" physics. They believe that his "glory' is know throughout the universe (they chant this in their mantras every morning. It is very scary when individuals portray themselves in this manner, and it is VERY scary when people associated with this cult (Followers) believe that if you speak up against it, That if they threaten your life it is "OK".
The Blind leading the Blind. As I stated before, the cult monitors this forum, because their master/guru/leader thrives on power and intimidation. He rules his disciples with an IRON fist, and they (most all of them) follow him around with no real questions about what he stands for, he loves POWER, he is not a "servant leader in any way. To Quote his actual web-site

Question: Could you tell us about yourself?

Jagad Guru: I am not very important. What’s important is what I teach.

Jagad Guru: So if you wish to truly know me—my heart and soul—then contemplate upon what I am teaching and apply it to your personal life. If you do this, you will actually be greatly benefited.

- I will go in to what he teaches, so you will know him more.

He has called his female disciples "Cunts"... yup... what does that say about who he is, what is in his heart and soul?.
He regularly in lectures calls gay people "faggots".. what does that say about him and what is in his heart and soul?.
He approves of his wife (consort, Wai-lana) to clip his hair and toenails and distribute them to his followers to ingest orally, He approves of these Disciples to regularly feed their children his Hair + Toenails... This is approved of and taught that this will cleans the "sins" from our hearts...
you will know them by their "fruits" people... spooky stuff.