Quote
tellyoulies
The big question will loom... when Mr. Butler passes on and leaves this earthy plane (as it happens to all of us)
the power grab ... will be incredible... who is 2nd in command?

it is Wai Lana's son who will take over-

Power grabs only exist where money, resources and the ifrastructure that supports the empire are concerned.
Butler has keep it close to his chest.
You can be certain that it all stays in the hands of his Chinese wife and children.
Financial security for Butler's family will come first.
It is so funny that Butler used to always say that the diciplic succession does not come down by semen.
He made sure of that. LOL!
But he is an ordinary man after all.
It should be interesting if he passes it on to his vanity-named step-son, "Siddha das".
But they need to develop Siddha das's back story and GURU BRAND. He certainly has the guru good looks.
After seeing the movie Kumare and reading bits of Shyam Dodge's memoir, it is an easy thing to do.
With Siddha das he has the martial arts mastery on his guru resume.
Will Siddha das, so protected and isolated from lowly, impure, worker devotees be appointed by Butler or self- appointed like Butler?
Will he marry or be a monk?
Will he rebel to be who he really wants to be rather than what he has been groomed to be?
The Last Emperor?

Quote
VitaminC
Looking at the projects that Siddha has been working on, it definitely looks like he is being groomed for the succession as Guru. So much for the guru being"self evident." Now you just wait to be told who the new guru is going to be, ala ISKON.

Siddha's responsibilities remind me a lot of what was given to Tusta Krishna as he was declared a Pure Devotee aka one of the guru's pets.

Hi Vit C,
Do you know what kind of projects he is doing because his film career seems on hold. Butler had Tusta start centers, preach, and write and edit his books. In fact I think Tusta was the real author of most of the material in Butler's books. Chris couldn't write well but he had the ideas. They collaborated. Tusta was a good writer and researcher. Maybe this acounts for the fact that Butler has not written a thing for years.

Back to Siddha das... they will need to come up with some legends for him like Sai fasting in the mountains for 30 days and coming down from the mountain enlightened.

Can anyone tell me what the 7 fold mystical powers are?
I can't find a thing on it.

yes the projects that dear sidda is working on as follows.

[www.ninjai.com]

[kingofgng.com]

and the 3 kids are Satya, Subhadra, and Siddha Bellord,

they have all been raised in the cult, there mom is wai lana, there father last name is Bellord, and their "step dad" is Mr. Butler.

no doubt funded by Wai Lana, and the cult followers.

it looks like Satya Bellord sounds like she has stepped out
[www.imdb.com]
or not you never know.

but we are not here to try to destroy these people... just expose.

this is a great news clip for the daily kos

[www.dailykos.com]

Shayam is going to do a service -- for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

At Vera City's request, here is something I'd posted over on the yoga troubles thread.

---
This is a small quotation from an essay written by Brad Warner and posted on Suicide Girls' website. Warner reflects on the film Kumare.

But he points out there is a lesson from the film that risks being lost.

How the guru role can change the guru, by creating a deferential social world around the guru, and by persons who let a guru take liberties with them that they otherwise would never permit.

This social permissiveness given to anyone in the guru role changes the guru.

It generates a host of temptations few can withstand.

The entire essay is well worth a look.

suicidegirls.com/.../Brad-Warners-Hardcore-Zen--Kumara-The-True-Story- Of-A-False-Prophet/ - 36k

Quote:
"By putting on some orange robes and imitating his grandmother’s Indian accent and mannerisms, Vkram discovered that there are people out there who are willing to believe just about any damned thing as long as it’s spoken by someone who appears to represent some kind of mystical spiritual tradition from the mysterious East. He has them doing air guitar moves and getting little penises drawn on their foreheads. Not only that, he tells them straight up that the thing he’s drawing on their foreheads is a dick and they still let him do it.

(Corboy--something about the Teacher from the Mystical East role elicited so much unconscious material that the people who followed this "Kumare" figure allowed their own boundaries to become porous.

Think about it readers. Letting someone paint a picture of a dick on your forehead.

What if "Kumare's assistant had offered them footbath water or toe nail clippings?

That is why those in the role of Authority figure have to be so very careful. People become permissive.)

Warner continues. "These are not dumb people either. They are intelligent, educated and sincere. Nor does Vkram try to make them look like fools. Over and over again he takes pains to point out that pretty much anyone could potentially fall for this kind of thing if they were seeking “The Answer” outside of themselves.

(Corboy--very different from the trash talk Bikram reportedly threw out at his students. )

Substitute "role of teacher" for "robes".

Warner notes:

Quote

"..putting on those robes can make you act differently. When people start to trust in you, as they trusted in the phony Sri Kumare, any decent person will feel the need to try and be worthy of that trust. This may be why Dogen extolled the virtues of wearing the o-kesa (Zen monks robe), calling it “the great robe of liberation.” "

and

Quote

But those robes can also be a dangerous weapon. Putting on the robe may make a decent person inclined to act more decently. But a less decent person can use its mojo to get all kinds of things like money and sex and power. The movie Kumare only hints at the extent to which one can abuse such power. But the real world provides plenty of examples.

Corboy: I would add something to Brad Warner's observation.

Stepping into the role of authority figure Guru can, by itself generate an a social environment full of yearning people whose boundaries are porous, possibly just in that situation.

Devotion can slide easily into an unconscious boundary porosity, an unconscious permissiveness. This is not to say that devotees deserve to be abused, or want to be abused or are giving permission to be used or abused.

And being unconscious does not mean one is stupid. The most educated and intelligent of us can go unconscious if certain triggers are pushed. We all have inner territory that is unconscious and lies beneath the platform of IQ, social sophistication, degrees or job skills.

Real consent is worked out with adult boundaries and it is conscious.

(Many guru-permissive persons will keep their devotion a secret. Meanwhile, they may function with hard headed competance at thier day jobs. But they may feel a special sense of safety if they find themselves in the company of others who are also guru-permissive, even those whose gurus are different. Members of the club, as it were. Just a hunch.)

This role-driven social environment full of unconsciously permissive students can trigger all kinds of temptations within a guru and even inflame alpha male dominance behavior within the teacher.

A test for any teacher is whether he or she throughout a career, takes care to avoid any behavior or props that exaggerate his or her importance.

Just being a teacher is already to occupy a powerful role, especially in relation to yoga, since yoga has a mystique that Pilates or mere physical therapy does not.

Though one need not buy into AA, the 12 Traditions offer some discernment guides here.

In AA lot of things are done to prevent an atmosphere of mystique. Settings are humble, usually rented from hospitals, or most often, church basements. Grotty folding chairs.

People who gather in 12 Step groups come in wearing ordinary clothing. Whoever guides the meeting (secretary) is in ordinary clothing. And...positions such as secretary and coffee maker and treasurer as well as room set up coordinator--those roles are term limited and at least every 6 months, a general election is held and the postions are taken by others, so that no one person becomes a permanent authority figure.

One can choose a sponsor and change a sponsor. One does not take vows to a single sponsor . And the sponsor is not regarded as god in human form. The sponsor remains a peer, albeit a peer with extra time in the program. The sponsor is an addict who needs to give service in order to continue healing. Thats very different from a guru who claims some special realization.

Especially these items from the 12 Traditions.

www.aa.org

"An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property* and prestige divert us from our primary purpose."

*(These days property would include intellectual property and trademarking. Turf mentality can inflame attitudes that can be markers for or retrigger addictive craving and addictive behavior--Corboy gloss)

"Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities."

I am going to print the 12 Traditions below.

*But what I have done was substitute "yoga" for A.A. and "yogis/yoginis " for and alcoholic/s subsitute "practices" for "still suffers"

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The Twelve Traditions--re-written with yoga in mind.
One—Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon yoga unity.

Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

Three—The only requirement for yoga membership is a desire to keep developing ones human capacities.
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or yoga as a whole.

Five—Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to persons interested in learning about yoga practice..

Six—An yoga group ought never endorse, finance or lend the yoga name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

Seven—Every yoga group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

Eight—Yoga should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

Nine—yoga , as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

Ten—Yoga has no opinion on outside issues; hence the yoga name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

Twelve—Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

Try and imagine how different the yoga world would appear if it were conducted in this manner.

Note: If women are in this mystical teacher role, female gurus and their devotees face these same temptations to go unconscious and while unconscious, to slip into boundary porosity and behavior slippage.

Quote
tellyoulies
yes the projects that dear sidda is working on as follows.
[www.ninjai.com]
[kingofgng.com]
and the 3 kids are Satya, Subhadra, and Siddha Bellord,
they have all been raised in the cult, there mom is wai lana, there father last name is Bellord, and their "step dad" is Mr. Butler.
no doubt funded by Wai Lana, and the cult followers.
it looks like Satya Bellord sounds like she has stepped out
[www.imdb.com]
or not you never know.
but we are not here to try to destroy these people... just expose.

So far, this seems to confirm my previous research on Butler projects.

Also, Vera, remember that CB got Tusta into a position in ISKON so that ACB would let him run temples, etc as well, sort of on the job training for later. With Tusta dying, it very well could be why there has been no new written material in years. And we all know that CB wont show his wrinkly face in public much less on video. I dont doubt that audio recordings are the only current media that he is using to continue control.

Corboy, your posts, as always are enlightening, and entertaining. Great viewpoints and posts on those. I loved the comparison of AA with yoga.

And, I have to say, "Kumare" brings to me, quite a few answers to my own blind faith in CB at the time. Wanting to believe, I chose not to analyze any of the facts with logic, instead allowing mysticism and lies to explain the holes in the logic.

flashlight_on_roaches
Date Added: 04/06/2012

Greetings, dabcult. You asked about Mike Gabbard having a gay son. See below that he does have a son in Australia whose appearance and words can be described as effeminate. I won’t comment further and let the information below speak for itself.(in this case it did not )

FLASH POSTED THIS INFO ON PAGE 420 ...AND THERE ARE OTHER PLACES ON THIS FORUM WHERE THE SON OF MIKE ...AS BEEN DESCRIBE
AS A HOMOSEXUAL IN EXILE IN AUSTRALIA ..BUT CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF JAY ...TOLD ME IT WAS NOT SO ...JAY IS NOT GAY
SO SOMETIMES INFO DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ITSELF...
I HAVE READ THE ENTIRE FORUM A FEW TIMES AND IT AS BEEN MENTION IN OTHER PLACES THAT JAY WAS GAY
UNFORTUNATLY THE 430 PAGES ARE DIFFICULT TO RESEARCH and very time consuming ..IF ONE IS LOOKING FOR A SPECIFIC INFO THAT ONE MAY REMEMBER HAVING READ.

THE CONTRIBUTION TO THIS FORUM BY FLASHLIGHT _ON A ROACH AS BEEN ENORMOUS AND HIS RESEARCH MOSTLY VERY ACCURATE ....AND ESSENTIAL IN POINTING SO MANY ASPECTS OF THE CULT....BUT INDIRECTLY THIS MIGHT HAVE ENCOURAGE THE COMING TO THE FORUM OF... tellyoulies...AND THAT VERY VERY GOOD...THIS YOUNG MAN AS A WEALTH OF INFORMATIONS
IT IS MY RESPONSABILITIES TO CHECK THINGS OUT ...NOT JUST SPECULATE ON A POSTING ...BE OF ROACH OR ANYONE ELSE
SOMETIMES WE GET IT RIGHT SOMETIMES WE DO NOT .

Vitamin C wrote:

Quote

Wanting to believe, I chose not to analyze any of the facts with logic, instead allowing mysticism and lies to explain the holes in the logic.

Corboy: Me too. My 'guru' was a Christian spiritual director who had an Ivy League doctorate in divinity, and immense charisma both personally and because he had helped in Martin Luther King Jr.s' civil rights work. And at risk of his life.

I had howling doubts combined with a need to believe. My life was messed up in other areas and I needed a mentor.

Meanwhile I was in a science major at school. So there I was, compartmentalizing.

I applied logic and research design method and evaluation of evidence to what I was learning at school.

I turned that off when with Pastor X. Later, as I began to have doubts about Pastor X, I continued to ignore them, refusing to examine and evaluate incongruities in Pastor X's behavior and very disturbing things I saw when visiting him and his missus at their home.

When, finally, I did examine the evidence behind my doubts, all sorts of stuff boiled to the surface.

Imagine a bottle of beer or soda pop. Contents under pressure. Doubts suppressed. What you have witnessed of incongruity between teachings by the guru and his or her actual behaviors are suppressed.

Remove the cap from the bottle--and all those bubbles of doubt rise to the surface.

And can take scary forms.

Freaky dreams

Shame and anger at oneself at having ignored one's own gut

Feeling ashamed to have ignored when other people were betrayed by the guru and
tried to tell one about it and didnt listen.

Because....one person did try to tell me that Pastor X was not who people thought he was. She was crying and told me this. She looked shattered. And she knew I was close to Pastor X and a favorite of his.

I simultaneously believed her--yet I did not want to investigate.

So I froze. Went silent on her -- and I went silent within myself.

I am writing not to draw attention to Corboy but to describe one persons inner process of guru enabling.

It is comforting at first to have someone to look up to.

But later, on, doubts do emerge, because no human can function at super human status for very long.

Suppressing the doubts (and suppressing doubters) takes a vast amount of effort.

Like trying to push a cork/floatation device below water and keep it there.

It can become so much easier to associate only with people who share adulation of a guru, and in subtle ways, avoid people who dont share any belief in gurus.

Another thing I did was, without even being told to do so, I learned to keep my adoration of this spiritual director a secret, at least at verbal level.

That too became tiring. Like trying to keep the metaphorical cork below the surface of the water.

Keeping secrets begins with excitement and often a sense of feeling special and on a mission. But long term, secret keeping can end with weariness.

And that weariness becomes yet another thing to deny to one self. Which can make it tempting to associate only with those in on the same secret.

A group based on secret keeping can be intense, but long term, it can be very draining.

And interfere with intimacy opportunities in the outside world.

About succession:

Elizabeth 1 knew how people would transfer loyalty from her to a nominated successor.

During her reign, she was repeatedly pressured either to marry and produce an heir, or later, to at least designate an heir.

She refused. She said "People ever turn from the setting to the rising sun."

She waited until almost speechless and on the brink of death to name a successor.

Some claim that once Elizabeth was dead, her bedroom was plundered of valuables.

And, centuries earlier when Edward III died, (and in his case, he did have an undisputed heir), rumor had it that Edward's mistress stole the priceless jewelled rings from the dead king's fingers.

If she did it, she had to have removed them before the dead man's fingers went stiff. Which would have made such thieving more difficult.

(A teaching lesson: If you want total control over what happens to valuables, personally give them to those you love while alive and conscious. Seeing others enjoy them while you are still alive and sentient is its own reward.

Another teaching lesson. If a large house has to be cleaned out, do a background check on the estate liquidation company and arrange for a responsible family member (preferably more than one) to be present.)

Back to our scheduled program. Chris Butler and how to achieve emancipation in relation to the world he created.