A few hours ago, the www.qigroup.com website claimed that they had "invested in the Down to Earth Stores."

At this time their Investments | Lifestyle | Organic Retail webpage says: "In 2007, the QI Group acquired Down To Earth (DTE), a vegetarian organic health store chain in Hawaii." So they are claiming that they do own and control the Down to Earth Stores.

The two earlier links I posted about the QI Group of Companies no longer work.

QI Group runs Multi-Level Marketing companies, which, if you think about it are good for cults. With cults, you have a built-in group of suckers who will do what you tell them and also people that you can coax into becoming distributors.

Carol Gabbard's old business, through EcoQuest International, was a Multi-Level Marketing business. With this business, Carol could make money selling expensive air cleaners made by Alpine Industries. But she could make more money by getting people from the cult to act as distributors for her. She would get a cut of each sale that her distributors made.

Cult members would be natural targets both for sales of the expensive air cleaners and also to become distributors.

Thanks, flashlight_on_roaches, for posting that Hawaii Free Press article. Very informative.

Vera City's post: Criticizing Religion May Become a Criminal Offense

Vox comment: Will we then give free reign to the religious fanaticists who declare that they alone have the truth and will save you from the rest of the non-believers, when they themselves engage in subversive & harmful and sometimes deadly activities that have demonstrably shown over and over that they will force this down your throats whether you want it or not?

Very nice posts.

Anything that is not debatable under the sun have no place in a free and democratic society. That is the foundation of freedom of speech. Without the guidance of reason it's gonna be a free-for-all world, more like the dark ages when the mighty and the ruling class can claim exclusive rights to Truth and impose it on the rest. Those who beg to differ are put on trial, are punished and some were put to death. Is this the world the extreme leftwing politicians want us to have? Are they willing to sacrifice plurality for the sake of political correctness? Reasonable accomodation and multiculturalism are not enough warrants to supress debates and rights to free speech. We can look back and learn from the dark ages where the dominant religions laid claim to absolute truth and whoever disagrees is put to death, and wars were waged in the name of. Religious cults like the Science of Identity share the same mindset. They accept sole authority from their gurus although each don't agree with one another and they would not subject themselves to a reasonable debate. We hold the Absolute Truth, accept or else go to hell. If given political power, it would be their divine obligation to shove down their truth to people's throats. Obscure as they are for the moment, they practice the same principle among the believers, wait till they are given a chance to hold office and lord over others including non-believers.

A vote for Tulsi is a vote for the dark ages. Don't be fooled, congress is just the first step, Jagad Guru is aiming for the highest office in the land. Tulsi will weasle her way up from Congress and lie through her teeth to become the first woman president of the us of a; mark my word.

Tulsi will never make it to the highest
post in the land.
This thread exists to expose the truth about the Cult of Butler & to reveal Tulsi as the latest political puppet of his.
The cult cannot silence all of us.
They all will be heavily scrutinized, it's just a matter of time.
Time is something that Butler is running out of.
It is true that the cult is providing funds for the campaign and they have been told to Support her.
That alone is an indication that she is still very much involved in this cult and like her father has
learned to manipulate the press and twist her words around.

Quote
VoxVeritasVita Das
Tulsi will never make it to the highest
post in the land.
This thread exists to expose the truth about the Cult of Butler & to reveal Tulsi as the latest political puppet of his.
The cult cannot silence all of us.

I totally agree. It was a booboo on my part; can't believe I typed "to become". What I meant was, the Butler cult will aim for the highest office, because it was a longtime dream of Bhaktivedanta for a devotee to one day be sitting in the highest chair of the land, and Chris Butler is actually trying to fulfill that by fielding in political candidates. If it's not Tulsi, there'll be others.

I'm proud of being a contributor to this forum because this is the MAIN source of opposition to the Butler cult. Concerned people are already quoting this forum and the mainstream media is starting to notice. Just try to stick to the facts and continue to be patient. This forum may have already prevented others from falling into the crack and provided opposing views to those already in the fold, which was non-existant a decade ago. Thank you everybody for your unceasing contribution and opposition to superstitious belief. Thanks much to Rick Ross.

Here's an indirect admission of Tulsi's membership in the Butler cult:

[ibnlive.in.com]

Having never visited India so far, she says she is looking to make her first trip to India as an elected member of the House of Representatives.

"As a Vaishnava, I especially look forward to visiting the holy sites of Vrindavan," she said.

According to her bio provided by her campaign, Tulsi's spiritual lineage is the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Notably Hawaii is comprised of a majority of Christians with a significant number of Buddhists (10-15 per cent of the population).

The number of Hindus living in Hawai i is relatively small, with only two Hindu temples in the entire state, the Iskcon Temple on Oahu and the Aadheenam Temple on Kauai.

Her religion, Tulsi said is not an issue for the election, neither it has been a negative factor in her electoral campaign, she noted.

Tulsi was born in 1981 in Leloaloa, American Samoa, the fourth of five children born to a Hindu mother and a Christian (Catholic) father.

At the age of two, the family moved to Hawaii, the 50th state of the US, also known as the "Aloha State"; which is also the birth place of the US President, Barack Obama.

Her acknowledgement of belonging to Hindu religion is misleading. The Butler cult and ISKCON is not hindu. They distanced themselves from the Hindu faith as the edict below tells but associate with the faith if that benefits them. She and the Butler cult are a bunch of opportunists and hypocrites.


Can it Be That the Hare Krishnas Are Not Hindu?
ISKCON's Srila Prabhupada's edicts on religion are clear

There is a misconception," wrote His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in 1977 in Science of Self Realization, "that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not." In chapter three of the book [available from Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge, North Carolina 27046 USA], this startling point is made several times: "The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."

Quote: "Can it Be That the Hare Krishnas Are Not Hindu?
ISKCON's Srila Prabhupada's edicts on religion are clear"
"There is a misconception," wrote His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in 1977 in Science of Self Realization, "that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not." In chapter three of the book [available from Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge, North Carolina 27046 USA], this startling point is made several times: "The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion." End quote.

That is absolutely correct Dharmabum. Glad you brought up this point since its an issue Tulsi is trying to use to
her advantage. Its a false claim and its the thinly-disguised "veil of religious freedom" she is misappropriating as did Butler many years ago.
Absolutely nothing that Butler and Tulsi does is in any way affiliated with Hinduism or "religion".
Here is a starting point to understanding "Hinduism" from Wikipedia:
[en.wikipedia.org]

As has been consistently stated from the very first pages of this thread, what Butler did was steal a little from Hinduism, from New Age, from Christianity and whatever else his drug-addled brain ran into, back in the day, and created this travesty known as Bhakti Yoga. In reality it is a front for his nefarious , self-serving activities and after 30+ odd years, the best he could come up with is this latest new puppet politician, Tulsi Gabbard. She is the ultimate distillation of all his eccentric and ego-centric antics in insanity and mind control. A female no less, one of his most despised forms of life on the planet, or so he taught and so he showed by thought word and deed. He was very fond of the "c" word and used it quite liberally.
A true misogynist in every misbegotten cell in his body. Yet he grooms a female? And probably for the same reasons that the Hare Krishnas
used to groom the prettiest females to do their street proselytizing. Sex sells, folks. It always has. For those feminist groups who support Tulsi, look behind the smoke and mirrors and see the true puppet master in all his woman hating glory. He controls her mind & her soul.
Until she publically denounces him, she is his slave and servant. I remember hearing the other bramacharis referring to Bulter's edicts, especially the one that stated that women were less than men. Men were superior to women. Yes, and it was okay to slap them around if they needed to be put in their proper position below men. AND THIS WAS DONE. These things were said often enough, I have to wonder why the females never rose up in opposition to what was obviously going on.
And now we have Tulsi? Who has been programmed from birth to obey THIS ONE MAN ??!!
How is that a liberated & independant female?
Tulsi is not Hindu.
Tulsi serves the "religion" of Butler. A man who is an avowed hater of homosexuals and has encouraged and taught his followers to hate. Why has this not been reported?
This religion is anything but. It is a financial money-making machine that is clothed in layers and layers of secrecy and years of deceit.
They should not be accorded tax-free status.
Where are the clinics and hospitals?
Where is the aid for the poor, the homes for aged aged and infirm?
The schools and temples?
Butler, Tulsi, his form of "Bhakti Yoga, the so-called Yoga mediation centers, its all a front.
Dear readers, I urge you all to print or email these last 10-15 pages on this thread and send it off, in whichever manner you are comfortable with, to
people in the media and the government and news agencies on the mainland, who can make a difference. You will have to google for yourselves since it is against the forum rules to post contact information. This will be a start. Get the information out to the right people.

The information debunking Tulsi’s so-called religion is very helpful and confirms that she is now trying to pretend that she has never hidden the fact of her involvement with Chris Butler. That will backfire, of course, when people discover the truth about Butler or he does something really horrible.

I’m wondering why no one has yet commented on the disclosures of Rebecca Rogan in the Hawaii Free Press article. Does anyone here know of her or tried to reach out to help her in dealing with her ouster from the cult? There are nearly 2,000 views of that article and I’ve been posting links to it everywhere. If she or the author are not on the up and up, please tell me.

[www.hawaiifreepress.com]

Quote
flashlight_on_roaches
The information debunking Tulsi’s so-called religion is very helpful and confirms that she is now trying to pretend that she has never hidden the fact of her involvement with Chris Butler. That will backfire, of course, when people discover the truth about Butler or he does something really horrible.

I’m wondering why no one has yet commented on the disclosures of Rebecca Rogan in the Hawaii Free Press article. Does anyone here know of her or tried to reach out to help her in dealing with her ouster from the cult? There are nearly 2,000 views of that article and I’ve been posting links to it everywhere. If she or the author are not on the up and up, please tell me.

[www.hawaiifreepress.com]

GREAT POST FLASHLIGHT!
I'm posting the text. I hope Rebecca Rogan can find her way to this forum.
I believe her husband was mentioned somewhere on this forum when the Australians were posting. He founded founded "Australians Against the Promotion of Homosexuality".

Friday, August 03, 2012
To Stop Mufi, Mrs Abercrombie Joins the Chris Butler Cult
By Andrew Walden :: 2058 Views :: Hawaii State News, Hawaii State Politics
by Andrew Walden

Standing with Amy Agbayani and other female progressives, Neil Abercrombie’s wife, Nancie Caraway touts Tulsi Gabbard’s “transformation and reflection, particularly in regards to human rights for all people.” Piling on in a desperate attempt to stop the Mormon Mufi Hannemann, Gabbard’s endorsers in the race for the Democratic nomination in CD2 include Emily’s List and the Feminist Majority PAC. Katie Vlietstra, President of Women Under Forty PAC says, “I can’t think of a better role model for young women thinking about running for office!” Even Dennis Kucinich has got in on the act.

This is funnier than John Waihee being conned by Ron Rewald.

As anybody who hasn’t been living under a rock for the last 20 years knows, the Gabbard family is affiliated with the politically active, anti-gay marriage, Chris Butler ‘Science of Identity’ cult. Interviewed by Hawai`i Free Press, former cult member Rebecca Rogan dismisses any claim that Tulsi or her parents have distanced themselves. Says Rogan, “Tulsi is a pure devotee. She is a little plant, a Holy Basil…. You don’t just leave, you are totally black banned if you leave. I’ve been banned. If I come around the cult security people start pointing and whispering. If they hear I am coming, there are phone calls all over the place.”

When Honolulu Magazine in 2004 asked Mike Gabbard about Butler's group, then-state Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, shot back in response: "I smell a skunk. It's clear to me that you're acting as a conduit for The Honolulu Weekly and other homosexual extremist supporters of Ed Case."

Rogan reports seeing Tulsi at cult gatherings as recently as 2010. She says Mike and Carol Gabbard are at gatherings almost every week.

Rogan says, “when I see Tulsi’s sign wavers in Kailua, 80% of them are cult members. They wouldn’t be there if she wasn’t in the cult…. I sign-waved for Mike.” Likewise, Rogan points to numerous cult members filling out the ranks of Gabbard’s contributors.

Civil Beat February 28 helpfully explains the situation in an article titled “Gabbard Campaign Benefits from Generous Family Support”:

“…contributors include Nancy Cardinet ($2,500) and Walt Cardinet ($5,000) of San Jose, Calif., who are related to Carol Gabbard; Gabbard's ex-husband, Eduardo Tamayo ($520); and former campaign manager Devin Bull ($5,000) and his wife, Kunti Bull ($5,000). Besides her mother, other treasurers listed in Gabbard's campaign reports with the Federal Election Commission are Robert "Rock" Riggs (who also gave $754 and is Sen. Gabbard's office manager) and Talia Tamayo Khurana, who appears to have contributed under the name Talia Khurana ($5,000). Talia Tamayo Khurana is related to Eduardo Tamayo; Gabbard's FEC filing also lists a contributor named Vikram Khurana ($5,000).”

Tulsi has also received massive funding from green energy scammers associated with the Abercrombie administration.

Rogan went through divorce from her cult member husband beginning in September, 2010 and left Science of Identity over the next few months.

Rogan says, “(Mike and Carol Gabbard) are THE marriage counselors for the cult. Mike speaks for The Master at prayer gatherings. Mike initiates people for The Spiritual Master.” Inside the cult “we never called him ‘Mike’, he was 'Krishna Katha das' and Carol Gabbard was 'Devahuti desi.'” In emails Rogan forwarded to this reporter, Mike and Carol Gabbard sign email responses to Rogan from the mikegabbard.com url with these names or with the initials “Kkd” and “Dhd.”

In a five-page letter Rogan says she sent to Mike and Carol Gabbard in mid-2010, Rogan criticizes the result of “all the years and times we were counseled by you both.”

Rogan tells the Gabbards, “…we are instructed that the woman should submit to her husband. …the vedic principle that the women should submit to the man has the potential to create (big) problems in the marriage by re-enforcing to the man that he need not make any effort and that everything should come from the woman….”

Meanwhile, Emily’s List President, Stephanie Schriock says: “Our research shows that women voters want leaders like Tulsi right now.”

As absentee voters cast their ballots in the approach to the August 11 Primary, Gabbard’s camp has slipped out a couple of hints which will give them deniability after the fact.

The Times of India July 30 headlines, “Tulsi Gabbard: First Hindu in race for US House.”

In the on-line audio of an August 1 KHVH interview with Rick Hamada (39:40) a caller asks about Tulsi about DOMA and Christian principles, Tulsi answers the DOMA question. Hamada reminds her about the Christian principles question, and Tulsi replies, “I am a practicing Hindu”.

That’s called a “limited hangout”—ironically, it’s a propaganda technique Abercrombie often employs. This time the joke is on him.

As part of the cult, Rogan moved to Hawaii from Australia about ten years ago. She’s uncertain on the year, explaining “we don’t look at things that way.” Says Rogan: “My ex-husband founded ‘Australians Against the Promotion of Homosexuality.’”

According to Rogan, Mike Gabbard once related the story of how he deceived an Advertiser reporter:

“The Advertiser is run by fags and they’re out to get me. They asked me outright if I am a disciple of the Jagadguru and I said, ‘No’ -- but I answered it in a certain way so the answer was really ‘Yes’.”

“He was laughing about how he twisted the answer to say ‘no’ but he really is a disciple.”

Mike, Carol, and Tulsi Gabbard did not respond to a request for comment from Hawai`i Free Press.

May 9, in response to President Obama coming out in favor of gay marriage, Tulsi Gabbard said: “I congratulate the President for taking a strong stand on marriage equality for all Americans, regardless of sexual orientation. I understand his journey, and stand with him on this issue. This is why in Congress I will work for the repeal of DOMA and support and co-sponsor the Respect for Marriage Act.”

Endorsing Gabbard, the gay marriage advocates of ‘Equality Hawaii’ proclaim: “We applaud Gabbard’s evolution on issues of equality in our state – this is an evolution that many have had over the past decade, and one which many will continue to have in the months and years to come. We believe in Gabbard’s commitment to our community, and to helping heal and move our state forward on issues of marriage equality."

Describing the cult’s attitude towards gays, Rogan explains: “We called them ‘faggot’ because it rhymes with ‘maggot’ because they eat shit.”

When this is over, will Abercrombie and his cronies eat crow?

I thought I post this. Another regular commenter for Civil Beat, seems to be aware of this forum.

www.civilbeat.com

Bart Dame · Top Commenter

Kay, thanks for your response. While I remain very skeptical of Tulsi's conversion, I will admit I cannot predict how she will perform once in office. If I feign a little optimism, I can see the possibility for her providing good service. Had there been a viable alternative candidate, I would have pressed my concerns more vocally and earlier. I personally like Esther Kiaaina and believe she was, head and shoulders, the best qualified of the candidates running. But you will note I am already speaking of Esther's campaign in the past tense.

What provokes me to speak out, is when I see people gushing with fulsome praise of Tulsi based only upon her "aura" and not upon her past behavior. Yes, war can and does change people and may have been a factor in forcing Tulsi to reassess what she had learned "at the lotus feet" of Chris Butler, a vicious homophobe and, from the accounts of many ex-followers, a nasty person. Had Tulsi come back from her war experiences and pitched in to help pass the civil unions bill she had previously opposed, had she then worked to repair the hurt she PERSONALLY had inflicted through her anti-gay activism, I would have been blown away by her transformation and would have embraced her warmly.

I recognize it takes awhile to process a major change on deeply-held convictions. And I will admit to difficulty in even trying to understand what this might mean to someone raised in a tightly controlled cult in which ones parents are among the top leaders and enforcers of orthodoxy.

To add to the intellectual puzzle, and nobody wants to talk about this, how could Tulsi have "changed her views" on these issues without breaking with the cult and her guru? In the past, any member, or child of a member, who would actively support equality for gays or a woman's right to an abortion, would have been cruelly ostracized. Shunned. Not only is Tulsi not being shunned, the core of her campaign is staffed with longtime Butler devotees, both first and second generation. (Actually, a lot of the people posting here and in other online forums on Tulsi's behalf are Butler devotees). How can we explain how such a large cadre of devotees previously active in opposing gay equality and abortion rights has turned, en masse, to work tirelessly in support of a candidate who is now publicly in support of those rights?

That is a total break with some 35 years of political behavior by this disciplined network and very hard to account for, UNLESS people are obliviously to the behavior of the group. But for those who have been paying attention, this is troubling and a source for serious skepticism.

I found a lot of attractive features in the ideas of the original Independents for Godly Government vision for our future. There were troubling aspects, too, as they talked openly about building a political alliance with born-again Protestants, conservative Catholics and the Mormon Church to try to imposed God-centered policies on the rest of us. But they were deeply committed to the protection of nature and sensitive to the rights of Native Hawaiians. And to the irrationality at the core of our consumerist society. The Butler political operation lurched to the right in the 80s, as expressed through the political activities of first Rick Reed, then Mike and Carol Gabbard. They sought to gather support by fanning the flames of prejudice against gays, lesbians and liberals generally. They moved from being on the edge of the Vietnam anti-war movement to being cheerleaders for Shock and Awe in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks.

To be fair, Wayne Nishiki, for all his faults, remained focused primarily on protecting Maui from over-development, sidestepping public involvement in these rightwing campaigns. But it has to be understood, these rightwing appeals to fear and prejudice did not come from the individual intellects of Rick Reed or the Gabbard parents. They came from the infallible lips of Jagad Guru Himself, who, despite formal denials, has always had a deep interest in playing in Hawaii politics and advised (or "directed" some of these campaigns with hands-on involvement. Now Chris's health in recent years is rumored to be not so good. How much of that is physical and how much is psycho-somatic is tough to say. He does have a tendency towards paranoia. Has he relaxed his control over the political reins of his network? Has their been a soft mutiny by senior alpha males, with Mike Gabbard as one of the most authoritative figures in the entire network?

Now, I am speculating beyond what I am able to know, given the secrecy surrounding the cult and the refusal of the media to look into what is already broadly known. If Tulsi is elected, as appears to the case, the national media will certainly develop an interest in the first Hindu members of Congress. We know there are three Buddhists in congress, two Muslims, only one open atheist. The first Hindu will attract some media attention. If the story remains at "Hindu," that should not cause her problems and will allow the entire network to relax and emerge, just a bit, from the shadows. If, OTOH, the media digs deeper in the "Hare Krishna" nature of Tulsi's religious beliefs, that may be more problematic.

I want to be clear. I have no problem with Tulsi being a Hindu. And, unlike some folks, I do regard the Hare Krishna movement as being part of the broader Hindu religion. (Chris is opportunistic on this. When it is convenient, he says they are not Hindu. When it is convenient, he has tried to organize other Hindus.) I have no problem with Tulsi worshipping Krishna instead of Jehovah or Zeus or Pele. My concerns are her deep involvement in a very disciplined, very dedicated and determined secretive group which, in the past, has been engaged in very hateful political activities.

If Tulsi has evolved-- or if Chris has evolved-- away from the Dark Side of deriving power from fanning hatred and fear, I will be pleasantly surprised. Few people seem to realize how unusual this network is and so are less troubled by trying to figure out what will happen next. If Tulsi votes "the right way" on the several issues to which she has committed herself --and I think she will-- what is the harm in her being a sleeper agent for Chris Butler's ambitions?

I don't know how to answer that question. But am frustrated that few people are even willing to ask it.

Quote
dharmabum
I thought I post this. Another regular commenter for Civil Beat, seems to be aware of this forum.

www.civilbeat.com

Bart Dame · Top Commenter

Kay, thanks for your response...

Some of Bart Dame’s points are lifted directly from my recent post here: “The Real Tulsi Gabbard”
[forum.culteducation.com]

My observations were obvious, but I am glad she/he found this forum and echoed the common concerns of all those who question Tulsi Gabbard’s background and motives. Some of her other points could only have been learned at this message board.
Bart’s comment is no longer at Civil Beat, unless I am blind. It is not unusual for Civil Beat to delete posts critical of Tulsi and many of those commenting there are obvious Butler devotees. All my Civil Beat comments were deleted as were those of Henry. It makes you wonder about the reliability of this Civil Beat poll. If it has been deleted, you have saved the day by pasting it here. Thank you. I will post it again at Forums Hawaii and Topix later today.

I cannot agree with his/her scenarios of Butler relinquishing control and Tulsi being no harm as a sleeper agent of Butler.