There is one other very important aspect of being under the influence of a master controller like Butler that perhaps has not been addressed as much as it should. Many have asked why the inner circle still exists. How can people still kowtow to this madmen after 3 to 4 decades? Good question. How is it that he still exerts such control and dominion? It must be because these people are so deluded, so brainwashed, so entrenched and entrained, that this complete surrender of their critical thinking skills has been passed onto the next generation. They have created their own reality. And Tulsi is part of the second generation. I know a few of the second generation kids, and they were as clueless as their parents. It is what they grew up with, and as you must know, the third generation will also be devoid of their critical thinking skills as well. This is the greatest tragedy that one can imagine. And this is why this cult needs to be exposed.

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VitaminC

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Vera City

There is still a chance that one day she will renounce her connection to Butler. I actually feel sorry for her being groomed as she has been like Kathy Hoshijo or Wai Lana. She may want to remarry and have kids one day. It will be difficult finding someone within the cult. She may change or fall in love with a non-cult member who could help free her.* On the other hand, if Butler has crowned Tulsi as a pure devotee like he did Katyayani and Wai Lana, she will have to live up to that. That adulation and service can become addicting and destroy her chances to have a normal, happy life.

I find this extremely hard to believe. Very very few krishna kids completely escape and lead normal lives from Hawaii. The only reason Mike Gabbard's son is distant is because he is gay and has been rejected by the cult in general. There are still effects and I have personally seen him come back to gatherings to see his parents and some of the other krishna kids who he was friends with before he was pushed out. Tulsi is too groomed, too devoted and brainwashed to accept anything less than her being a complete follower of Butler.

Anything can happen... HUBBARD'S GRANDAUGHTER LEAVES SCIENTOLOGY

Interesting documentary on ex scientologists helping a journalist. One was raised in the church. It will happen with Butler's group in time... EX CHILD OF SCIENTOLOGY HELPS JOURNALIST

Thanks Vera for being classy. I appreciate your postings about Scientology. These are informations readers can relate Science of Identity to. Wow, I watched the videos and remain hopeful.

If Tulsi's connection with the cult is so newsworthy, the media would have written about it long ago, even without this forum's prodding. There's nothing further to prove either, it's an open secret in Hawaii, or not a secret at all. I believe this forum is first and foremost about Jagad Guru Chris Butler and the Science of Identity. Yes, incidentally, Tulsi's run for public office is worth talking about, because she has a connection with the cult. I'm just hoping people here are not too naive into thinking that that is so big of a deal with Hawaiian voters. The only time that religion matters is when that religion's WEIRD practices are brought up to the public and they go against social norms and values, especially when that concerns the safety of children. But even that needs CREDIBLE facts and INTELLIGENT arguments for people to buy in. You have to strike a balance between creeping people out and providing relevant education about religious cults. TOO MUCH negative attacks and smears (like sexual connotation and physical attributes) oftentimes, turn off people and leave bad taste to the mouth. That also diminishes the integrity and credibility of this forum.

Facts tend to take a life of their own. But they have to make sense. When you become too pushy and monotonous, readers become annoyed or worse, will tend to do the exact opposite. I think voters should be left alone to make informed decision after all the cases are heard and facts are laid upon the table. Corporate media make their own priorities, readers are readers, and election campaigns will unfold, independent of anybody's expectation. These are facts. This forum has over 138,000 views and counting; even if 1 per cent of those are from people whose hearts and minds we all are trying to win, being obnoxious simply wouldn't help. Personally, I don't care much about credulous people - if they don't belong to a cult, they are believing other things, including trying to belong here. There are good-hearted people that sadly fell victims to religious cults because of their misplaced idealism and love for goodness. Helping them get out is definitely not by trolling hateful innuendos. Hate only begets hate.

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dharmabum

"I believe this forum is first and foremost about Jagad Guru Chris Butler and the Science of Identity."

So are you saying that all the political activity of Jagad Guru Chris Butler and his devotees and Science of Identity Foundation cult, over the past 37 plus years (since 1975 or before) is not an important part of the story and saga of Jagad Guru Chris Butler and his cult?

What about the successful election of five of Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa's (Chris Butler's) devotees over this period of time: Rick Reed as Hawaii State Senator, Wayne Nishiki as Maui City Councilman, Carol Gabbard as member of the Hawaii Board of Education, Mike Gabbard as Honolulu City Councilman and later Hawaii State Senator, Tulsi Gabbard as Hawaii State Representative and later Hawaii City Councilwoman, are these not important and significant accomplishments of Jagad Guru Chris Butler and his cult? Part of the story?

What about the alleged participation of Jagad Guru Chris Butler and his devotees in several major political scandals here in Hawaii: The attempt to smear Cec Heftel and the attempt to smear U.S. Senator Dan Inouye?

Are you arguing that because it is difficult to prove Jagad Guru Chris Butler's connections to and involvement with and influence over all these devotees of his who have held office and are currently running for higher office, that we should stop trying to get the information about it out? Arguing that we should stop trying to find Jagad Guru's influences and connections and stop trying to explain those influences and connections? Stop trying to get the word out about those connections to political candidates and politicians?

Are you arguing that because the news media haven't done their job in exposing this background and influence that everyone should just give up?

You can give up if you want. That is your decision for you to make for yourself.

We need to develop a compelling and understandable narrative about Jagad Guru Chris Butler and his Science of Identity Foundation cult and all their political tenticles. We have to back everything up with irrefutable evidence. We will have to go over and distill material from this forum and elsewhere.

We have to try and make the whole story and all the implications understandable to someone with an eighth grade education. Maybe a sixth grade education.

Clearly some of the evidence and information that we already have is being ignored.

If Tulsi loses, we have to realize that Jagad Guru Chris Butler is still ambitious and he will try to get a Gabbard or some other devotee to run for political office. (One person who may be connected to Jagad Guru and the cult is Kai Nishiki, daughter of former Maui City Councilman Wayne Nishiki. Wayne Nishiki was the owner of one of the little markets that became the first Down to Earth stores. Kai Nishiki has run, so far unsuccessfully, for the Maui City Council. Here is Kai Nishiki's Website from a 2010 run for Maui City Council). Sooner or later Mike Gabbard may try to run for higher office. We have to be ready and we have to continue whether Tulsi loses or not.

If Tulsi wins, we must try to interest national news media.

We need to look over all the campaign finance reports that we have, including the ones for Mike Gabbard, with a fine-tooth comb.

And over the next couple of years we might have a lucky break. We could really use a break. Maybe an investigative reporter will take an interest. Maybe a high level devotee will decide to leave with some documentation.

I think we all know that there IS a story here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 08:30PM by atheist.

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dharmabum
If Tulsi's connection with the cult is so newsworthy, the media would have written about it long ago, even without this forum's prodding. There's nothing further to prove either, it's an open secret in Hawaii, or not a secret at all.

Ive asked a large number of people, many many times if they know of the Hare Krishnas, Chris Butler or Science of Identity. NO one had ever heard of them. Exposure is the only way to stop them.

I think you miss dharmabum's point ya'll.
When you write angry, nasty posts against Tulsi on local Hawaiian forums, even insulting her complexion, without reasoned facts and arguments against her candidacy, that it actually has the opposite effect of what you want. It makes a normal person become sympathetic towards Tulsi even if they are not voting for her. It turns people off to your point of view.

If you read some of the responses to the nasty, personal comments, most people are like...."huh? Fail." They think the poster has a vendetta against Tulsi, is a stalker or an ex boyfriend. In my opinion this is not the best way to educate the voters on the connection between Tulsi and a very dangerous cult.

Referring people to this forum is productive if we can also keep on track here and not let it degenerate like it has in the past.

Mr J can bring a level of professionalism and credibility with his videos and this is a welcome addition that brings more exposure on the internet.

Dharmabum has been on this forum a long time trying to expose Butler and bring down his cult. I don't even think that needs to be questioned.

Just state your case in exposing the cult, we all in agreement with that. Who am I to set the tone of this thread? This is a public forum; it is in your liberty how you deliver your case, even if you choose to go down to throwing the whole kitchen sink and all, and hope something sticks, but I will always beg to differ when things get too juvenile, petty and down dirty.

When you left the cult, but still carry the traits, maybe you're missing the point.

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VitaminC

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dharmabum
If Tulsi's connection with the cult is so newsworthy, the media would have written about it long ago, even without this forum's prodding. There's nothing further to prove either, it's an open secret in Hawaii, or not a secret at all.

Ive asked a large number of people, many many times if they know of the Hare Krishnas, Chris Butler or Science of Identity. NO one had ever heard of them. Exposure is the only way to stop them.

I agree. My only goal is exposure, however rude that is in the process. I could care less if someone want to vote for a Hare Krishna, but I do care when the fact is kept secret.

Found an old thread when doing Google searches:

[forum.culteducation.com]

Does anyone know what happened after these posts?
Someone else (an ex-Krishna) has just come forward on Topix and I'll post more here later.

Sorry if I get carried away a bit. As long as this cult exists and is politically active, we need to keep an eye on them and try to get the word out about them.

I guess I am repeating myself . . .

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flashlight_on_roaches

"Found an old thread when doing Google searches:"

Thanks for posting this. I took a look at the exchange involving "fish" at Exchange with "fish". "fish" mentions that "Mike Henrieta," Jagad Guru Chris Butler devotee, allegedly committed suicide.

Michael J. Henrietta had been a manager at Down to Earth. He was the general manager of Down to Earth on King Street in Honolulu when Mike and Carol Gabbard opened their "Natural Deli" in the same building.

Mike said on his "Let's Talk Straight Hawaii" anti LGBT radio program that he started in November 1991, that "he would, all else being equal, prefer a heterosexual applicant over a gay or lesbian worker" to work at his Natural Deli. In January 1992, LGBT activists picketed the Natural Deli, which the Gabbards closed in February 1992. The picketing had been 24 hours a day, seven days a week at the Deli. (Quote is from the Honolulu Weekly "The Gospel According to Mike Gabbard" article The Gospel According to Mike Gabbard. Note that Down to Earth was the sponsor of Mike Gabbard's "Let's Talk Straight Hawaii" radio program.)

When Michael J. Henrietta was at Down to Earth, "in about 1982-84 [Down to Earth] had an employment application that stated that if you signed the application "you or anyone you associated with could not be gay to work there (Down to Earth). The National Gay Rights Advocates assisted [LGBT activists] in getting rid of that portion of their application, but the rest [of the application] was as bad about other groups and issues." (Quote from a private communication to me.)

I had forgotten about Michael J. Henrietta. I don't ever remember hearing that he had committed suicide. That might not have been publicized at the time.

I have not found an obituary for Michael J. Henrietta yet. What I did find was a list of contributors to Rick Reed from back in 1992. Michael J. Henrietta was one of those contributors.