I recently checked the Honolulu Yellow Pages. The Science of Identity Foundation is still listed under "Yoga Instruction."

My son is interested in going to Hawaii to work on Dharma Farm. Should I be concerned for his safety? I have heard about cult type activities. I would appreciate any information.

fancy:

Yes. I would be very concerned if there is any connection whatsoever to Chris Butler, his business interests and/or group of followers.

Butler has been described as a "cult" leader. And ex-members relate accounts of what seems to be a very negative environment that is potentially unsafe concerning the Butler group.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2011 10:04PM by rrmoderator.

I am betting that Siddha has about as much connection with the Hawaii Dharma Farm as George Washington does with the Washington Redskins. They probably just chant, read books and farm. And I would be surprised if there is any charismatic leader on the farm, either.

RadhaGovindaDas:

Who is specifically behind the "Dharma Farms"?

Is this in any way related to ISKCON?

Radhagovinda --

You refer to Butler by his title, 'Siddha'.

Are you a devotee?

Fancy has a right to be concerned.

If her son goes to the farm, he will be donating unpaid labor (aka 'sweat equity') to a enterprise that will benefit someone else.

Right now it is 2011, not the 1960s. Economically times are much worse than 40 years ago, and today it is much more difficult to make up lost time and lost financial opportunities.

Mod, if I am not mistaken, Alan Yoza is behind the Dharma Farm in Hawaii. Not Iskcon. Although it has been a zillion years since I knew Alan, he was always a bit on the fringe.

Corboy, I am an EX-devotee. I refer to him as Siddha because that is how I always have known him. I do agree with you that he will be donating free labor which will benefit someone else. But young people get to travel the world doing this. They also pick up some farming experience if that is what they want to do. My daughter did it in South America. Wouldn't be my first choice, either, but I can think of far more dangerous situations.

See [search.volunteerhawaii.org]

There seems to be a spiritual/religious component to the program, which includes "BHAKTI YOGA, MANTRA MEDITATION, KIRTANS, VEGETARIAN DIET..."

The owner of "Dharma Farms" is Allan Yoza.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

Yoza has been accused of unethical "slum lord" business practices.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

Yoza and Chris Butler has been linked according to comments made at this message board.

For further perspective, some started a thread on what to say and do if one has lost valuable time to a high demand group and later, years later, need to re-enter the mainstream society labor force.

Your son should not have to cope with that.

Transitioning from a cult back into society

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Instead of working on the dharma farm, there are other worthy and altruistic opportunities he could get involved with that would carry no risk of exploitation and that, unlike Butler's stuff, would look superb on his resume.

Habitat for Humanity.

Service work rebuilding New Orleans.

Join the the groups ?? (Mennonites, Society of Friends/Quakers) clearing up hurricane wreckage on the East Coast.

The Krishnas are vegetarian but they must be quite hungry for fresh meat in the form of new recruits.

Look how quickly the Rapid Response Specialist sprang into action on this thread when 'fancy' showed up expressed concern about her son's interest in 'the farm' and got immediately validation for her concern from Mr Rick Ross, the moderator.

It would be interesting to learn more about just how fancy's son learned about 'the farm'. A flier at a health food store?


A word to fancy:

If the Krishnas (whether Butler or ISKON) want your son, he is much too good for them.

Think about this. Many youngsters dont have the willingness to work long hours doing farm work. And many others, even if willing, lack the physical fitness to do so.

In addition few youngstersr have the needed respect for authority, initiative and good manners one needs to have in order to do well working on a farm.

Even fewer have the idealism to want to donate their labor and live away from big city amenities.

Fancy, your son, with his manners, his energy, intelligence and idealism, is special.

A legion of great causes would be very happy to have your son do an internship with them--an internship that would enable him to do a lot of good in this world and that would open doors to him in a multitude of future careers--internships that could be listed on his resume for years to come.

If he goes to the 'farm' he'd only be adding to the tax exempt wealth of a secretive leader or group that is only looking out for its own interests. They're wooing him. Young men like him are VALUABLE.

Consider this.

Most young people your sons age dont even want to do heavy physical labor on a farm. Many are not physically or mentally fit enough to work outdoors. Anyone capable of doing this, who wants to do this, who is willing to live away from the fun and entertainment of a big city, and who has brains and good manners would be a welcome intern or salaried employee in a legion of great projects.

Projects that would look be brilliant on your son's resume and that could open doors to remarkable careers--not something like ISKON or Butler which have dodgy histories that would have to be buffed and hidden over by a resume specialist later on.


Think about it. Now that we are in a recession and now that we are in times where even younger people are worried these days about how to pay for schooling and whether they can find jobs sufficient to pay off student loans, guru led cults are gonna have a more difficult time finding alert, dependable idealistic people willing to donate their labor. Again, this is not the 1960s.

Fancy, it would be interesting to to know who told your son about the farm, and where he was when this recruitment/outreach was done.

Was he at some sort of young people's festival?

Recruiters are usually attractive and appealing people who would make any organization look good.

If your son is charismatic and handsome, he might be groomed to become a recruiter.