Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone, spiritual or otherwise, running for political office. There is something peculiar, however, in denying any religious affiliations you might have when you Do run for office.
And when your religious leader goes underground when there is a controversy, I for one, start to get suspicious.
And when the self- professed devotees of that religious leader start to change their behavior and the nature of there religious services, [as I was witness to, I might add], when their leader goes underground after political controversy involving one of his [very high ranking] followers, who publically denies any affiliation with said religious leader, It does raise the odd eyebrow.
Where is Chris Butler? Is there anybody out there?
Why doesn't He respond?
Hypocrital? Maybe, but who am I being hypocritical to? I adhere to no religious philosophy or leader, and I state my own beliefs only, so I don't accept the designation of hypocrit.

No, really, what is Siddhasvarup up to these days? Doesn't he want anybody [outside of the inner circle] to know?
And if not, WHY?

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In regards to what Hope said, if she has specific information on other lectures where someone has bashed Christianity, then instead of her just bad-mouthing Chris Butler and making baseless claims, she should post complete excerpts (in context) of those lectures with information on the dates and so forth of the lectures. Otherwise, she’s just badmouthing somebody without any evidence.

I'm not "badmouthing" anyone, just simply stating that the video, which I put into my recorder and did not view as excerpts online, was repulsive. I was brought up in a Christian church, left it as an adult, but I will not stand for anyone bashing someone's belief. It's the same reason I walked out of a Unitarian church service. Just because there are no online links to be posted here does not make my statement a baseless claim.

In respone to rescate's request:

What are you concerned about? Are you afraid your family members will become republicans?

No, seriously, I'm sure that your family member Will benefit from association with the group, especially if they adhere to the party doctrine. Besides, you can't change another's behavior unless they want to change.

I don't know how to contact devotees in Arizona. I would try asking the Chaitanya Center in Hawaii, or looking for a School of Meditation in your area. But why can't you find them? Are they deliberately hiding their location? As far as I know, the devotees often give classes, lectures, and public kirtans and post the events on bulletin boards in health food stores and coffee shops. Have they stopped doing this? If so, why?

The point I'm trying to make is;
Either they watch this website and read postings to find out what people are saying about them, or they have informants posting messages in order to get even more information about what people are saying about them.


By the way, if any of you devotees read this and think you know who I am, Hi!
I found out what you're really like and I'm very disappointed. It's all about politics, not religion, and I think you should let people know that instead of luring them in with your attitude of spiritual superiority and promises of friendship and fellowship.

I believe I know who "Bonnie" is and I would like to ask them in reference to thier criticizing Lord Krishna as being the God of War:

Quote: "Well I should have seen it coming. After all, Krishna was the God of war in the Bhagavad-gita not a prince of peace, just another cult believing in the great holy war."

#1 Was this person at one time a devotee of Lord Krishna? I know this person had connection with ISKON when she was younger.

#2 Did this person pray to Lord Krishna at one point in her life to help her, and if Krishna helped her with her personal problem, did she end up making a shrine for him and worshiping Lord Krishna for some time?

Hypocrisy? Well isn't it hypocritical to be criticizing Lord Krishna and acting as if anyone who worships Lord Krishna is a cult follower, when she herself has and possibly is still engaging in such worship?

If I have offended anyone with a flip remark made about Krishna being a war God, please excuse me. He did drive the chariot for Arjuna, as well as order Arjuna to fight and kill, so I don't think I'm too far off base.

I personally don't have a clue as to what God looks like, eats, does for entertainment, etc. I have engaged in various religious practices in my life, but have never claimed to Believe, (in the sense that I Know in my Heart for Sure), in any. I suppose it could be called hypocritical to Seek, by some standards. I have bowed down to Krishna, Jesus, The pope, Rimpoche, The Divine Mother, and Jagad Guru at times, so I guess I am guilty of Hypocracy. In my opinion I was being Polite.

But, I think the point here is not worship of GOD, but whether or not it is OK to use deception as a means of disquising your real intentions, of operating as a political entity and hiding behind the facade of religious devotion, of using devious means to lure people into your belief system and discarding those people who will not adhere to Your belief that your (all too human) leader is a perfect devotee of god and therefore invulnerable to critism.

If you want to be a politician, be a politician.
If you want to be a religious leader, be a religious leader.

When Politics and religion are intermingled, especially when the mixing is done in a covert fashion as in the case of Gabbard, very nasty things happen.
Think Children's crusade.
Think conquest of South America and Mexico.
And think Iraq, Iran, and the situation in the middle east.
Also, think of the fact that worship of Krishna, whether you care to admit it or not, is the worship of a Hindu diety, and would be considered as heresy and Devil worship by our present religio-political leaders.

Jumping on the fundamentalist Christian Bandwagon does not a Christian make. And denying affiliation with an essentially non-Christian sect (I won't use the word cult anymore, although I still believe it applies), does not an honest politician make.

Flawed though I may be, I take a stand for Truth and Compassion, and abhor all that is cloaked in darkness; the darkness of presenting a false front, of scapegoating a section of the populace, of using lies and fake smiles to hide a desire for personal advancement, of pretending affection that does not exist.

I also stand for Freedom of Speech. From all that I have seen, which isn't much, I dislike Chris Butler, the nationalistic views of the devotees I have had contact with, and the rampant antihomosexualism that seems to be at the very core of the teachings I have been party to.

I don't need an intermediary to talk to God. I certainly don't need Jagad Guru. And I don't mix religion and politics. Ever. Period.

I'm curious as to why this forum has suddenly become so popular with the defenders of the faith. I found it when I was looking for websites dedicated to the word of Chris B. Didn't find any, but I did find this forum asking a lot of questions about him. Is that such a threat? Is questioning verboten? So it would appear.

And no, you don't know me. Not even a little.
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What happened to the other posters on here besides you, Bonnie, and the followers of Jagad Guru? Is it possible that the followers are hacking this site, and banning them from posting???

No.

There were a couple posters that were banned for posting rants, flames and gibberish.

See the site rules about this.

Since the devotees are following this site, and obviously people are wanting to become more informed about Jagad Guru and his following, wouldn't it be nice if one of the devotees answered the original question?

So far we've heard criticism from the opposition, which in turn has been critiqued by the followers, but we have never had the original question answered by someone who is really in the Know.

I believe the original question asked if anyone knew anything about the khrishna group in Hawaii, followers of Jagad Guru.
Any devotees out there care to tell us what you're really about?

Like I said, I found this forum during an attempt to find a website dedicated to the guru and his teachings.
Apparently I'm not the only interested party. :D

Can anyone give me the scoop on Chris Butler's beginning days? My mother joined his group in 69 and left him not long after. She has bitter feelings about him and won't talk to me about it. Also, does anyone have any idea of how I can reach him. I hear it's tough. He is my uncle. My mother was married to his brother, Bruce Butler. I don't know either of them and I'm doing some family history. Thank you. Mallika Butler.