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RadhaGovinda
... And wasting some of the best years of my life, of course.

That is a recurring theme with exers. It was a great loss.

Others have mentioned Butler's apparent "mystical" powers and charisma and that his "senior" followers "know" things. But even if true (hak hak), the philosophy states that mystic powers are not perfection or even paticularly useful. But it seems to be one of the things that binds followers.

But I have not heard any stories that demonstrate that Butler had any particular powers beyond a con man's sleight of hand. A hysterical follower known for her hormonal mood swings who had been around since the Sai days used to tell a story of Siddha disappearing in thin air at a gathering. Now THAT is real evidence. LOL. Followers were always passing around stories like that. And chanting, dancing, and playing music does make you high. [Note: This is not to disparage the poor woman who suffered from manic-depression. I think followers are victims of the the cult and inadvertently propagate the myths.]

It seems whatever mystical experiences one might have had are very common in group cult practices. Whether they are real or self-generated or a psychiatric disorder, is not the topic of this forum. But if you study different cults, you will hear about almost identical experiences.

The bottom line for me is that it does not matter if the mystical or spiritual experiences are real or not. What is important is if people are being used, exploited, and harmed. There is a body of evidence that Butler is not innocent of stealing people's time, energy, money, and love for his own self-agrandizement and bank account. He is a Prabhufraud. Someone posted a great definition of evil -- "That which takes for oneself alone." Butler fits the bill.

It's not like you were not thinking. Critical thinking skills are the first that are attacked. Butler just did it in a very mellow and seductive way. Rick Ross is referring you to research that addresses how easy it is to manipulate even the most intelligent, especially if you are vulnerable or young and idealistic.

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RadhaGovinda
Athiest, the property exchange at gunpoint was the turnover of the market on Kauai. Siddha was not there. Midgett was a very nice guy, by the way. He would not have been party to that. He married a beautiful girl from NZ but I don't know how anyone's life turned out once I left the scene. It's been a long time.

I don't know this story but do know that a guy named "Moon" and his wife set up the store on Kaui for Siddha at one point. There were thug types in the group capable of gunpoint takeovers, but no one is talking. Midgett had a kid, got divorced and has his own followers/ guru scene now. Travels around and preaches. He's taken up the Tusta mantle I reckon....Is in total denial about Prabhufraud Butler. He is still known as a nice guy.

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RadhaGovinda
There is a lot of bitterness after all these years. Let it go. Religion has always had its quirks. I'm surprised to see so many people from the 70's still in the fold. I find that interesting. But everyone has free will to make their own choices. I don't regret having gotten involved. I do regret staying involved for about 8 years. One year should have been sufficient. But there were some good people in the mix and some interesting experiences along the way. Live and learn.

I don't believe it is something exers can change that easily. I knew many exers who have given up the faith but still retain some aspects of the religion. And it's pitiful watching them struggle and suffer as they try to assimilate back to society. One that is so close to me has become a recurring trouble not only to himself but also to the people around him. At first I thought that may be unique to him but after observing other exers go over and over cause problem or unnecessary complication even with matters to many are non-issues, my suspicion is confirmed. Somehow the cult instills to followers that uneasiness and suspicion of others outside the faith that they carry on even after they have left the cult. When they relate to others that built-in invisible wall around them still persists and most people like me try hard to reach out, but because of this absolute concept, even before you speak, there is this preconceived idea that you could be wrong or inferior to their thinking. I know somebody who likes hanging out with creative people who drink and smoke but causes everybody discomfort not only because he does not drink or smoke but he opines strongly against them and gets preachy sometimes. The strong adherence may have gone but these subtle qualities stay. In my case it took me conscious effort and years to be aware and let go and enabled me to let live others of their choices in life. I have a brother who I carry all the time through social scenes that I myself get pretty much mentally exhausted and sometimes feel guilty shaking him off my time for some relief. And also, they are still capable of selling you out in the name of religion. Pitiful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2011 04:29AM by dharmabum.

Quote: It seems whatever mystical experiences one might have had are very common in group cult practices. Whether they are real or self-generated or a psychiatric disorder, is not the topic of this forum. But if you study different cults, you will hear about almost identical experiences.

The bottom line for me is that it does not matter if the mystical or spiritual experiences are real or not. What is important is if people are being used, exploited, and harmed. There is a body of evidence that Butler is not innocent of stealing people's time, energy, money, and love for his own self-agrandizement and bank account. He is a Prabhufraud. Someone posted a great definition of evil -- "That which takes for oneself alone." Butler fits the bill. "
---Very well said. Vera City.

To Radha G:
This is one critical aspect ( among others) of this cult which elevates it into the seriously dangerous arena: the idea/fact that even after you leave this cult, it still infects your mind and your spirit! People ARE being used and exploited, of that there can be no doubt, and even after you leave, the spiritual control they exerted over you is difficult to release. This surfaces mostly as self-inflicted guilt for leaving or second-quessing yourself- or as you asked, was what you experienced true?
The answer is to look at the most commonly used named for Butler in this forum: PRABHUFRAUD--the emphasis is defenitely on the "fraud" part of the name. Experience within this cult is somewhat like the clap- its the gift that keeps on giving. And you, my dear, as so many others, have been seriously mind-f*%ked.
Pure and simple.
Was it real? Define real: How can a teacher, especially one who calls himself the Teacher of the World, treat his
followers in such a shabby manner? To run away from someone who is offering their humble respects and to leave them crushed and hurt? This is arrogance of the highest order. Butler exists solely for the benefit of himself-understand that and understand that what you experienced, indeed what many others as well experienced was not some mystical magical trip, but instead a case of mass hysteria. Mind control is a very powerful tool and in the hands of a spiritual trickster, it is devastating. Indeed, this " infection" sometimes does last for decades.
Case in point: a few years back I spoke with another ex-er. When we were trying to discuss this phenomenon and I pointed out the incredible inconsistancies and the arrogance that Butler always displayed, I received a startling
response that dismissed this FACT and instead saw a brief momentary flash of longing on their face for the bliss
that they thought they had experienced! Say what??
Yes, the "gift" that keeps on giving.

QUESTION: What is it that drives a person to accept C. Butler as their guru and savior?

ANSWER: Because it is written in their holy book, the Bhagavad-Gita, that one MUST accept a spiritual master (in order to go back to g0dhead, I suppose).

However, I am presently studying a theory which suggests that all the so-called holy books of human civilization have been manipulated and changed over thousands of years by a class of men who were hungry for power and in order to create a system of control over the populace.

QUOTE: The original Templar creed taught Unity Consciousness and love, cooperation and respect toward all other life forms. It did not appoint some groups as being godly and others as evil; it taught of the necessity for equality between peoples and genders and the need to heal and integrate all aspects of society. The original Templar teachings promoted kindness, gentleness, tolerance and power through comprehension of sacred energy mechanics and consciousness embodiment of the God-force. It DID NOT teach that God was a male authority figure who passed judgment upon sinful, inferior humans ... It taught that every being in the universe was an individual face and expression of God, and that brotherhood was simply the rational result of this comprehension.

END QUOTE.

I know that many current followers of this cult will reject some of the words written in this quote, accusing the writer of being an 'impersonalist' ~ however, these words might ring true for those of us who have started to see through C. Butler's lack of love and compassion and lack of equality and brotherhood towards other living beings.

The teachings were twisted to make you believe that you could 'find God' by searching outside of yourselves, or by appeasing some SELF-APPOINTED AUTHORITY FIGURE who had the power to hold your divinity for you.

It is certainly an interesting theory.

The gift that keeps on giving ... Good one, Vox ... Glad to see you back on the forum. Nice post!

What I observe now which I find very disturbing is when the parents in the cult send their children to boarding schools in the Philippines to be trained as disciples. Plus, they seem to have gone dissimulated as professional yoga teachers, health instructors, massage therapists or even career actors as in the case of the Bellord children. Any professional looking niches that they can infiltrate to draw in recruits to their secretive society, I supposed. At least in the 70s, we were open in our proselytizing activities. They seem to have shunned away from the kirtans and street ministries the original teaching is founded upon. They now operate massage clinics, galleries, yoga clinics, film productions, anything they could think of to look mainstream. I just hope authorities be alerted as far as the children are concerned. This needs to get seriously monitored as things that happen behind closed doors most of the time are too late when abuses are uncovered. I don't think cults in general can gather as many recruits as compared to the the 70s or even the 80s. It is very difficult to sustain such a dogma nowadays since we live in an unprecedentedly open and intelligible society, wherein one can find answers and information just about anything in a click of a finger. In the case of SoI, if Butler wants his kingdom to survive this age, practically rests upon the indoctrination of the children. This boarding schools in the Philippines are not only operating very sinisterly, but may be violating the basic rights of children as mandated by the UN (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm). While the children of today lavish in freedom and knowledge in this very unique time, unfortunately, the children in the cult are denied of this opportunity. They will grow up to be disadvantaged and alienated from their very fortunate generation, we, and the generation before us never had.

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VoxVeritasVita Das
To run away from someone who is offering their humble respects and to leave them crushed and hurt? This is arrogance of the highest order.

This follower probably had no potential as a big money maker, and no potential as a political puppet. Chri$ is only interested in money and power ... and he only deals with the followers who can offer that to him.


Dharmabum: Still nobody has come forward with news about the school in the Philippines ... I wonder if it is still in operation? With all the information being presented in this forum, (93 thousand hits!), I would be surprised if any parents were still sending their kids to that school?

Mindfuck. I like the terminology. Picture-perfect, yet most of the time, the law turns a blind eye to, simply because religious rights precede the individual's other rights. As we were mindfucked, and other brainless adults who joined the cults willingly, there is a degree of participation there; in the case of children born in religious cults, I strongly believe is different and should be looked into seriously by sociologists and psychologists. Theirs is a total psychological rape. This is one social ill, society may be ignoring. Technically, the children who were born into it did not in any way engaged in that choice, therefore concerned exers could rally behind and help create awareness to.

Oh yes, Googs, I'm in the front row seat when it comes to SoI's practice of this. It's not massive, nevertheless, I hold them guilty of this abuse. The boarding schools are residences where children are shuffled around, to be trained as disciples and god knows what else? As much as we are aware of the psychological damage done to those who left and those who are still engaged, when it comes to the children, the damage may be double or more. Not quite irreversible as in the case of Rama Ranson, but hey, Rama may be the exception? Frankly, this is one social issue where a legitimate study could be conducted, not just in the case of SoI, but religious cults in general.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 07:14AM by dharmabum.

I think the "kids" are now in their "20's to 30's", if I am not mistaken. These would have been children born in the 80's. I wish there was a way to contact them somehow to ask them how they fared. I know several of them left the fold or were kicked out. Some of them were forced to go to the Philipines, mostly due to their behavior, ie: not toeing
the party line or being uncontrollable. One young girl was sent off because her parents were always too busy with the
nonsense projects that never ended and so she was always left to fend for herself. Naturally being unsupervised she
started her interest in boys at a young age. Probably to forestall any embarassing situations, she was packed off.
I have a feeling the parents were glad she was gone, now they could devote ALL their time to the P-fraud. This happened time and time again, sometimes with the dassi's sometimes with the das's. What happened to all those kids? This particular girl was eventually married off (around 17 or 18) & can be found on Facebook-most of them kept their given birth names.
One in particular, the eldest daughter of J and J - two very high ranking minions of long standing- left the group to go live with her bf. I hope she is doing well, she was a nice girl. Its sad that the parents had no time for her. Another had serious emotional problems from a very young age. And we have heard from Rama- I hope he is doing well these days. All these kids were children of the inner circle- but the only ones that seem to have been taken care of might be the Queen Bee's kids. And maybe Kathy's kids.
The lost generation.
If only for this reason alone, the fate of the kids- should this cult be avoided at all costs.
Children were ignored,damaged, abused and hurt both physically and emotionally.
Unacceptable.