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rrmoderator
Moishe3rd:

What view?

You have essentially been trolling around the board.

Yes you did fail.

The viewpoint that you are unfairly impugning the motives of Jeff Seidel; Aish Hatorah; and Chabad.
Yes, I did fail.

Moishe3rd:

All you have done on this thread is essentially demonstrate that the complaints of the parents about the attitude and purpose of "Jewish Outreach" programs run by Aish and Chabad are correct.

Whatever else you might imagine you have done, is just that, in your imagination.

Aish, Jeff Seidel and Chabad have hurt Jewish families through their recruitment efforts.

Your repeated denials concerning this fact doesn't demonstrate a viewpoint, other than denial is perhaps your coping mehcanism and you believe whatever makes you feel good.

The complaints from Jewish families keep coming in.

That's an objective fact.

Hopefully, this post was succinct enough for it to sink in.

Though frankly, trolls don't really want to dialog, but rather just argue and blather on endlessly wasting time and space.

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rrmoderator
Moishe3rd:

All you have done on this thread is essentially demonstrate that the complaints of the parents about the attitude and purpose of "Jewish Outreach" programs run by Aish and Chabad are correct.

Whatever else you might imagine you have done, is just that, in your imagination.

Aish, Jeff Seidel and Chabad have hurt Jewish families through their recruitment efforts.

Your repeated denials concerning this fact doesn't demonstrate a viewpoint, other than denial is perhaps your coping mehcanism and you believe whatever makes you feel good.

The complaints from Jewish families keep coming in.

That's an objective fact.

Hopefully, this post was succinct enough for it to sink in.

Though frankly, trolls don't really want to dialog, but rather just argue and blather on endlessly wasting time and space.

:roll:
I believe that I have responded to your charges honestly.
It is obviously not the response you were looking for.
I simply find it unfortunate that you have so little interest in anything but the surety of your point of view.
Because otherwise, it would appeat that your intent is to help people through difficult situations.
Be well.

Moishe3rd:

You have not responded honestly.

All you have done is defend Aish and Chabad, because they essentially represent your point of view as an Orthodox Jew.

You have demonstrated no concern for helping the famiiles put through difficult situations as a direct result of ultra-Orthodox proselytizing efforts.

Moishe, As you may not know, my family was involved with Ultra Orthodox attempts to [i:95d9c22e4b]mecareve[/i:95d9c22e4b] us over a very long period of time, beginning with an after school program run by Chabad that I went to. The result was the destriction of my family. And it didn't even start there as my paternal grandparents got divorced over religious differences. Religious intrasigencee has severely impacted my immediate family. Look at the posting I have on this board. I was given death threats and everything else on the events that transpired when I got married through Chabad.
Furthermore, when I was in the Ben Yishai cult and Rabbi Hecht of Chabad got involved to "cultbust" me or whatever else he was doing he told me to leave my cult but not to sign up with Chabad as Chabad's doctrines didn't impress him as to the way the world actually worked. All of this bears analysis.
Another point is that my mother had a booklet published by Kehot which is Chabad's publishing arm and it was about the story of Chanukah. The booklet said, "...even little children just like yourselves were willing to lay down their lives for this pure, holy religion." I don't see what's pure and holy about it.

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rrmoderator
Moishe3rd:

"Returning"?

Returning to what?


Your word "returning" implies that they were somehow absent as Jews. That is, that they needed to "return," when in fact they never left Judaism and were most often already affiliated with a synagogue and from a practicing Jewish family.

Again, you reveal that you don't recognize the right of other Jewish denominations to exist as legitimate expressions of Judaism.

You see your theology as the only theology acceptable and therefore young people already affiliated with other synagogues that don't conform to your theology need to be recruited.

Pretty sad and intolerant outlook on the greater Jewish community.

I got a similar treatment at the 8th St. Shul, not from Rabbi Fried who ran it and made me his Assistant Rabbi but from some of the congregants. They were trying to [i:7dde3a5a9d]mecareve[/i:7dde3a5a9d] me and they thought I was some kind of ignoramous when it came to "Jewish Outreach." Actually, what they were trying to do was illegal in that Shul.

Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach has a song called "Return Again" or [i:7dde3a5a9d]Vehashev[/i:7dde3a5a9d] and the message is that the Jews should "return to who you are, return to what you are, return to where you were born and reborn again. Return to, ..." I forget actually what the next verse is but the upshot is to return to the ideals and faith that our ancient ancestors died for with the "song of the Lord on their lips." This song is on one of Neshama Carlebach's recordings either on Ani Shelach or Journey.

He claimed the term meant that the person was doing something wrong before becoming orthodox and only was on the right path after becoming a reborn Jew, so to speak. He also claimed that he hated the term outreach.
I will maintain that his fundamentalist beliefs were alien to me and I never could figure out why I kept gravitating back to him and Chabad.
Yeshua Witt, Shlomo's # 1 man told me that of all the people who came to him over the years, I was the only one who came back more than once. Clearly all of this needs to be analyzed. Anyone care to comment.