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Re: A view on the isa experience from a long-term assistant
Posted by: BibiG ()
Date: February 03, 2012 01:38AM

Sorry, had to break off from my last post...

The part of the ISA Experience that was, for me, the most interesting was when individuals are asked to tell others why they dislike or fear them. I got something out of this - one's fear of being disliked is much worse than the actuality of it. it was quite liberating. Also, everyone owned their own reasons for the dislike, it was usually to do with transference from the past.

I was disappointed that there wasn't really any creativity in the four day course, ie, no making stuff, exploring stuff, singing, writing. IN this sense, the repeated messages which were given to us were quite boring and repetitive. I couldn't bear to listen to this stuff all over again.

The cathartic sharing part of the experience was powerful. BUt afterwards I did wonder whether you could get addicted to this bit of it and that it was in fact somewhat voyeuristic. I did question the motives behind the sharing. High drama but potentially bad therapy, in my humble opinion.

Finally, just one other really big reservation. ISA believes you should complete or make an ending with people that have hurt you in the past. this might mean going to see them, talking to them. There was no discussion about the times when this might be dangerous or re-traumatising: ie, noone should suggest that a victim of domestic violence, sexual violence or sexual abuse returns to visit the perpetrator without knowing whether it's safe to do so. I deal every week with women and men who have been stalked, abused, raped, or hurt in other ways. This question of safety needs a lot more careful handling than ISA was willing to give it.

All the best
Barbara B G

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: billy77 ()
Date: September 03, 2012 11:56AM

I attended the ISA Experience years ago and only now do I feel able to talk about this experience albeit annoymously on the internet. I feel that I should share my story and my views.

I am a sensitive and intelligent person who was badly affected by this whole thing.

I was at a point where I had a good job, great friends, a reasonable life. I was mildly discontented I guess, like so many people in this society, looking and wondering if there was another gear I could move into where I would really enjoy waking up and going to work and feel at one with the world like I had at various times.

I think now looking back that I should have known that this was a questionable group as my friend would not tell me what went on during the Experience and only gave me vague answers. I don't know what I expected... maybe something more laidback.

I could cope with the first two days pretty much even though all the exercises are designed to destabilise your ego or existing self and involve a lot of obedience with the leader, Luis and long sessions of listening to this amalgam of pop-psychology and philosophy. Really it's a sales job where you are persuaded of how inadequete your life is and how you need to "wake up" etc etc. I went with it as much as I could as I felt obliged to after paying £300 to be there.

It all got really heavy on the 3rd day though when you are sat with 3 other people and have to look into their eyes and hear all the stuff that they don't want you to know about them and then you have to tell them. This was just way too much and I pretty much shut down after that and went into a daze and became numb. It really messed with me on a level that I couldn't have imagined. The other leader Dave exclaims right after the exercise to the whole room "you have just killed your program". I think it was at that point that I really started to feel like the whole thing was evil. I bluffed my way through the rest while just feeling dead inside. On the last day you tell the whole room some things you wouldn't want them to know about you. I think so many people just went along with it. By that point I felt like if they had said "take off all your clothes" some folks would have done.

I think it's arrogant and disgusting that they think this is therapeutic in some way. A lot of people would struggle to tell close friends or family some of the things that were being said. Nobody should be manipulated into that by some bullying "facilitator" and a bunch of brain-washed "assistants" who are too dumb to realise that they are being manipulated and have become free workers to some money-making machine.

I saw other people there who just were not wanting to be part of any of that but were pushed into confession.

I did see some genuine human feeling between people in there but by then my trust was broken and the whole thing was a shoddy business, not aligned to the greater spiritual good, but to a few people's egos.

So afterwards when I arrived home the next day I became psychotic and terrified... I mean terrified. Unlike anything I had ever known and ever since that day I have never lived a single moment without great anxiety and uncertainty. No medication could contain me. Nothing brought me back out of that. I lost everything. I couldn't work; couldn't concentrate, lost all motivation to work, lost all ability and enthusiasm for socialising or other such activities. I had a high level of functioning, now it is very low even with the greatest will in the world.

Was it the sharing exercise that opened up my psyche to the forces of the unconscious? Maybe. I think I saw how evil operates though. I think that more than anything. How it uses deception, control, manipulation, all the range of s**t that has trapped humanity for millenia.

I feel that I went along with everything they said, really pushed myself to go where I wouldn't normally go and then what? Become as sick as this? Who do you think picks up the pieces? Them with their clap-trap? Of course they just tell you that you don't get it and that you need to come back and review or do the advanced course that is twice as much. They were some nice people the assistants, just naive and brainwashed.

I mean who are they kidding with this bulls**t? You have a soul. You live through that soul and every day is a delight and the intelligence that exists in that divine energy is unparalled compared to any of the horses**t that they can provide. Nobody needs any conditioning, information, other people's ideas. It's all just a prison. How have we become so trapped in this ignorant culture? Nobody can ever give you anything greater than what you have within your own being.

Of course I am angry on some level but some part of me was very disturbed by the whole thing. I try to find forgiveness for myself, ISA and all involved and whatever caused me to fall into this state.

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 04, 2012 10:29AM

A discussion here



Sects and 'personal development courses'.
No, not sex, the little groups that wander all over the place preaching their own verdict of the cure for all human ailments.

Sara's sister got involved with a group called (along the lines of) ISA or ICER, something like that.

Anyway, she pestered her mum to do the 'course' and eventually did. The pair then basically hounded Sara until she agreed to do the damn course. Thing is, they are on the phone to Sara so frequently with questions like 'what has appeared today to make you decide NOT to do the course?' After this they go on and on about the reasons she 'needs' to go on this weekend of three days of 'lectures' which do not finish until midnight. Call me a philistine but, with the regular adult having an attention span of 40 minutes max, this sounds like bloody brain washing. I am not an expert but having done and seen a few escape and evasion exercises can see when stress tactics are being used. At least I think so. Repeat a mantra from 9 til midnight and see how many folk disagree, then focus on them. Standard methods. What to do though. I know this may seem like paranoia but tbh I can see this ending messily. Anyone know of this group?



Do you mean this lot?

Racing Teatray
Avoid. Avoid all these things. No good can come of them. They are only there to make money for unscrupulous people. Period.
Twelfth Monkey
Use of terminology like 'pestered' and 'hounded' tells you all you need to know.
Mike Amos
"Do you mean this lot?


I think that is the folk. I had a 'disagreement' with a chap last night, there was a woman from the group who called only a few days ago and I thought it a bit much so instead of handing the phone to Sara, I asked him why so much contact for a simple course. He got quite obsroperous and said he had a contract to keep calling, was quite a self important little oik so I cut him off in mid flow asking who I was etc. Impression these folk are quite nasty. Think I need to look into them rather more deeply lest there are tears before bedtime.
I hope you can persuade Sara to cut all contact with them.
Humphrey The Pug
I think it is quite sad that there are people out there who need this sort of "guidance" which is really just brainwashing, to get them through life.

Much like Tina's dad who got involved in a Happy Clappy Church and now the only things in his life are fellow Happy Clappers, "God" and himself.

They pray on the vulnerable and weedle themselves in, Tina's dad!!
Wikipedia lists them under "self religion"


This was interesting, Some observers have used the terms "human potential movement", "para-religions", and "therapy cults" to describe organizations in the "self-religion" category.

I echo the posts above, try and get her to sever any links with them as soon as you can...

Some more 'googling' found this :-


***EDITED for typo***



Mike Amos wrote:
I had a 'disagreement' with a chap last night, there was a woman from the group who called only a few days ago and I thought it a bit much so instead of handing the phone to Sara, I asked him why so much contact for a simple course. He got quite obsroperous and said he had a contract to keep calling

There are rules preventing double glazing etc firms from continually pestering you, so surely there are for people like this - I'd look into whether you can report them to Ofcom or whoever - it can't be right that they have a 'contract' to pester you into submission.

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: billy77 ()
Date: September 05, 2012 03:04AM

After reading this site for a few days I am amazed at the number of these organisations that are known as Large Group Awareness Trainings. They all seem like clones of Landmark/EST. A lot of people have been badly affected. Certainly a disproportionate number in relation to how certain and confident these groups are of their methods.

So I feel like I should write a bit more about my experiences and concerns with this Institute For Self Actualization and so other people who might want to go there or who have family members caught up in it can get some insight. The hard sell is very evident with these people and so it's useful in a democratic society to allow different viewpoints to be expressed.

One of the biggest things that contributed to me having a painful breakdown afterwards was that there seemed to be no room for my experience, or no validation for it. I was a freak. Everyone else would wake up and be high as a kite by the Monday morning. This was almost accepted as fact and conditioned into people right from the start of the 4 days. I was worn out by it all. To be fair to some of the assistants, they were kind to me in this regard but they were still trying to sell it all to me even when it was clear that I was not interested and was now a broken man.

Anyway, recruitment involved a friend of mine who I had known for some years telling me that there was this "thing" I could go and do for 4 days and that it involved just talking to people about your life. This person gave me the impression that it was a gentle, benevolent kind of thing but they would not actually tell me what went on there.

This is the warning sign for any group like this where you should be genuinely concerned. Why is there no disclosure of anything that happens there? Of course the assistants have been told some reason that they blindly accept but in all honesty what kind of a group operates like this? Certainly in the UK we don't have any TV program or mainstream media source that has discussed such a group and so the average person is very unaware.

They operate by word of mouth basically.

I had a family member suggest to me before I went that it was a "cult" but at that time I couldn't imagine that something that seemed so legitimate operating in mainstream society could involve any nefarious methods that more well known religious type cults use. It does not present itself like that on the surface. People aren't aware of what 4 days at a place like this entails and of what they will be subject to.

Usually you stay with the assistants for the 4 days, in the same room. It was all arranged by them and they even drove across half the country to take me there. Of course you pay for the meals and the accomodation yourself. It doesn't come out of the money you pay ISA which is about £300.

The other major thing that should alert people is that one of the first things that happens there is that everyone has to agree to various things but in particular to not take any prescription medication ( unless absolutely necessary ) and to not leave while there for the duration of the 4 days. It might seem trivial this but really it's not. Also nobody is allowed to go for toilet breaks during the long sessions.

Basically they want you to totally sever any link with your existing life and so their brainwashing, controlling horse$$t can really get to work on you.

Luis the leader will make mincemeat out of most people. Rarely do people have the ego strength to match a guy like that in that environment. It's like a drill sergeant in the army. It's taken as funny, or humourous, but in reality the atmosphere it creates is not relaxed.

Ask yourself one question... do you want to be put in a state of fear? Do you think you need that? Do you think there is some sense of liberty there and of personal freedom? Do you think that is what it is about? Do you have any idea how difficult it is for any business to persuade workers that they should work for free? They must be laughing their heads off.

I think the main issue I have with the whole thing is the way a few guys egos think they know what is best for everybody. The certainty that they have drilled into the assistants that this is such a great thing in the world. They talk about "getting it", but they haven't a clue. Don't they think if this was such a sure-fire way of creating succesful, happy people then the whole of society would be aware of such things and have signed up long ago? Everyone would know about such a great thing. It would be recommended by doctors, by therapists etc.

I think secretly they know that what they are doing is not ethical, that people don't actually like standing up in front of a room of strangers and telling everyone that they had sex with a dog once or whatever it may be. Why would you do that unless you had been pressured or bullied? Why commit social suicide? For who? Because you are afraid?

At the end of it all they tell you that you shouldn't tell anyone what happens there as no one would understand. No spiritually and ethically evolved person would pull any of this s**t on you.

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: billy77 ()
Date: September 06, 2012 09:03AM

A few final points I'd like to add are in regard to the assistants who work for this organisation for free. Most of them seemed like decent people but clearly they were caught up in this whole thing. I realise some people have a need to be part of some group or community but are there not other alternatives?

I think they need to look deeply in themselves and ask a few questions:

1. Do I really need to have some self that I am "working on" the whole time? Do I feel joy, peace, liberty, freedom, excitement by doing this "work"? Is it not just conditioning me to inadequecy? Do I really need to be in some teacher/strict-parent relationship with anyone? Was there ever a time when I did not have to do this work on some self and how did I feel then? Do I understand what my spirit is and that it doesn't need anything adding to it in my head?

2. Do I like having to get up at strange times and call the other assistants to within a second or to have to arrange chairs to within a centimetre? Do I like that kind of regimented environment? Is it not just a bit totalitarian and controlling? Do any of these things change at the request of any of us? Is this in any way democratic or is it more like a fascist dictatorship based on some premise that the whole thing has been designed like this by some spiritual genius who wants to do good for everyone?

3. Do I need to push people into doing some exercise where they have to stare into a strangers eyes and reveal their inner-most secrets? Is this therapeutic for everyone? Would professionals or regular people not have figured this out by now if it was so beneficial? Could some people result in having their ego boundaries broken? Is not the testimony of various people who became psychotic and very sick during this type of exercise during Landmark forum not enough here? ( If there are any other ISA casualties then it would be interesting to hear their story ) Are you so sure of this and the other methods that ISA uses? Shouldn't there at least be some screening? Do you not think it is strange and a bit sick that everyone is told not to tell family members and friends what happens during the Experience?

I seem very critical, but along with the "success" stories, something like this can do a lot of harm and that has to be recognised otherwise we end up deluding ourselves.

That's all.

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Manipulative modifications of language in the isa experience
Posted by: Andy123 ()
Date: July 10, 2013 07:15PM

Part of the isa experience philosophy is based on 2 core words:


They go through 4 phases to start with where everyone says Pros and Cons of being a Victim and whatever anyone says is written down and everyone claps (I forget what the other 3 phrases are, it's been a while!), then they move onto 4 stages:


People are asked to brainstorm the pros of practising Acceptance and everyone shouts out different things which are written down and applauded, however irrelevant or cliche they sound. They then ask what are the cons of practising Acceptance and no matter what anyone says, they explain how it isn't actually a con. At the end of the exercise 'Acceptance' has a big list of pros and no cons.

Invariably someone says something like 'What about what the Nazis did, how can I accept that?' The facilitator (typically Luis) explains that to accept something isn't to condone it, merely to see it as it is and accept it, so if someone rapes someone else, if I accept it, I don't condone it, but just acknowledge that it happened, therefore to accept it isn't a disadvantage.

OK, all well and good, BUT that is not actually what acceptance means. provides definitions from multiple dictionaries and here are some true definitions of acceptance:

- general agreement that something is true, reasonable, or cannot be changed
- agreement to a plan, offer, or suggestion
- an attitude of accepting a difficult or unpleasant situation because you know that it cannot be changed or avoided
- the fact of allowing someone to become part of a group or community and making them feel welcome

You might notice that the actual definition of acceptance includes words like 'agreement' and a belief that something 'cannot be changed'.

If you buy the isa experience philosophy that acceptance leads to you Participating in life (whatever that means) which leads to Realisations, which leads to you being the Source (and that's a very tenuous logic at best, but somehow makes sense when everyone else in the room is going along with it), then you're unconsciously agreeing that if you accept (i.e. agree with) the isa experience, you will become the Source (i.e. have complete control over your life).

I find this extremely alarming. By using acceptance in this manner, isa participants end up agreeing with a whole loads of imposed beliefs. I've known several people who have gone 'on holiday' to Ole's house (Ole created the isa experience), paid high rates for a week or more accommodation and then spent the whole time cleaning for him, doing the gardening, etc. all to 'work on themselves'. There's a strong belief in isa that anything to do with isa is 'working on yourself' and anything outside of isa is somehow unimportant. I wonder if this kind of skewed thinking originates in accepting things that are patently not true or useful.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Next: Responsibility is mentioned at another time in the experience and is defined as 'The ability to respond'. So, by saying "I am responsible for ..." I am actually saying "I have the ability to respond to ..." in other words I'm responsible for my part of it, not for the whole thing.

Unfortunately once again this definition is wrong. The definitions from different dictionaries of 'Responsible' includes things like:

- deserving to be blamed for something that has happened
- if something or someone is responsible for a situation or event, they are the cause of it
- someone who is responsible for someone or something is in charge of them and must make sure that what they do or what happens to them is right or satisfactory
- a responsible job or position is one in which you have to make important decisions or be in charge of a lot of people

In other words, being responsible is very much associated with blame, being the cause of something or being in charge of others. No where in any of these dictionaries does it say 'you have the ability to respond'.

This again unconsciously means that when someone says "I'm responsible for ..." they are unconsciously saying something completely different and this creates lots of guilt and emotional confusion.

As well as damaging individuals and making them more susceptible and vulnerable to the isa experience cult, changing the meaning of words in this manipulative way also causes differences in their relationship with people outside of isa. If I tell my partner that s/he is responsible for something and I'm using the incorrect isa definition, you can imagine that it's going to create major arguments! The same is true if I tell a co-worker, friend or anyone else who hasn't done the isa experience. This causes people (and did previously cause me) to feel lonely and misunderstood by people outside of isa and this again reinforced my need to get deeper into the cult, as that is where I felt understood.

These 2 examples of the manipulation of language are only 2 of the more dangerous ones and are part of classic cult brainwashing techniques.

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: billy77 ()
Date: July 28, 2013 07:11AM

It's unreal.

I got an email a while back from them saying that it was Luis' Birthday. Basically asking for money but saying that Ole has said that we should give more than we would normally compared to an office whip round.

Can you believe it. I have my mind raped by them, I lose everything, my quality of life for years and years is practically nil and now they are asking for money. But not just a regular amount.

Are you kidding me?

This preys on the gullability and susceptibility of the people.

No wonder they setup shop in Jimmy Saville country ( West Yorkshire ).

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Re: A view on the isa experience from a long-term assistant
Posted by: momtofour ()
Date: June 24, 2015 04:09AM

This group - ISA short for Institute of Self Actualization is dangerous in my opinion. My father was an assistant for ISA for about ten years starting in middle 1980s and going through 1990s. My mother was also for about five years. The group and it's members including Luis Cordoba were family friends and came to our home quite often. The group and it's teachings were a part of my upbringing during my latency and pre teen years.

I am a licensed clinical psychotherapist now in private practice doing family and couples therapy. I would not recommend ISA. There are many reasons, but, first and foremost, the people running the organization are not qualified professionals. They have zero experience with counseling and or therapy. The training is four days long and during that time the participants are asked to talk about highly charged emotional traumas, their deepest secrets, and to be candid about the most personal aspects of their lives. In a room full of strangers, run by facilitators with no training in human psychology, the participants are put in emotionally vulnerable situations.

The point to the "Experience" as they call it, is to show that we are all alike, only separated by the fears and self consciousness in our own minds. If we could see a room full of people accepting us after we've spilled our dirty laundry we can see the light. However, the problem with this focus is that at the very least it doesn't work, more concerning is that it can actually be dangerous for people who are not prepared for this. Also, the message inherent in ISA is that we are all in control of our own destiny. Great, except that they see this world view as all or nothing. I was hit by a car and almost lost my leg and their attitude and response to this, including my own father's, was that I created that. I was asked while recuperating in the hospital "so now, why do you think you created this?"

While this kind of mentality and world view may be popular in certain New Age circles, it is not particularly healing nor is it scientific. Especially problematic is the causation and responsibility this places on people who have been subjects of abuse and or violence.

Also, I was 14 when I started in ISA. Whether or not they take kids/children into these seminars now at present time is not known to me. Today looking back I am shocked not only that my parents had such little regard for protecting my innocence, but that the people who run this organization would allow children in such a highly charged and emotionally intense seminar as this one. I was exposed to things like rape, abortion, physical assault and abuse and at the tender age of 14 was not emotionally ready, nor psychologically mature enough to handle those kinds of topics and or subjects. It is absolutely not age appropriate for a pre adolescent to get up in front of a bunch of adult strangers and bare his/her soul.

I wish I had better things to say about this organization except that I don't. In the end I think it psychologically dangerous, emotionally loaded, and empty. If you want to put yourself in a highly vulnerable situation for four days among a room full of strangers spilling their souls then this might be for you. For me, and my family now, I will stay far away. And BTW - for all those years my old man gave to this group as an assistant, his life spiraled out of control soon after he stopped assisting in this group. He is in the hospital, alone, not one of the people in this group he worked with for years has even bothered to call or check in on him...not one.

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: louis haigh ()
Date: February 19, 2017 03:37PM

I attended this totally weird set up in Yorkshire UK in 1990. It was very demoralizing, debilitating & full of people who had been to earlier meetings, had become unpaid 'assistants' & appeared brain washed.
After it, they phoned me several times asking for money. I do think that any one who is not strong mentally should not attend it & the whole structure of the three days was most peculiar. I only decided to look at it again recently as I had read the excellent book about the Manson Family & thought it may be classed as a cult.
Don't go!

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Re: The ISA Experience
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 19, 2017 10:44PM

Another person's report. Make a copy if you want to be sure you
have access to it later. Material often disappears from the internet.



The seminar was called ‘the isa experience’ and is the first stage of recruitment for a sophisticated and highly experienced money-making and power-trip ‘new age’ cult, wrapped up as a spiritual path to enlightenment. When I got there it looked like a cult and smelled like a cult. At some level I already knew I’d made a mistake. But I was a long way from my home in London (in Bradford), with no transport and a big commitment of around £400 already spent. Plus from the moment you enter the hotel where the ‘seminar’ is held the thought reform process begins.
You are greeted by ‘overly smiley’ strange looking cult members who comprise the core of the cult. And not left alone from the start , so not given the chance to use your critical abilities to evaluate what you’re being told and what’s going on. The authoritarian, charismatic leader begins the seminar with various ground rules (no watches, don’t sit next to anyone you know, no side-talking, no eating and drinking) in a room devoid of natural light. That’s where the seminar will unfold for the next two evenings and days (one of which goes from 10am to 10pm at night). You are persuaded to put aside your own doubts and thoughts in favour of ‘learning something new’ a suggestion from the authoritative leader that actually means you suspend your ability to think for yourself.
By the end of that weekend I had been well and truly brainwashed and turned into one of the smiley, strange looking folks who would go home and try and sign everyone he knew up to the seminar.


At some level I still knew it was a cult and vowed i’d take the good from it and never do the ‘advanced’ course (£600+) with even more control techniques introduced. And certainly i’d never ‘assist’ – the ‘process’ they call it that gives you the real fast-track growth, but which is in fact where you become a full on recruiter for the cult, tasked with recruiting as many people as you can and ‘supported’ to do so under the false statement that it’s for ‘your own personal growth’.
A few years later i’d done both the ‘advanced course’, been an ‘assistant’ and recruited around 20 friends or family to the cult. This, by the way, made the cult around £5000, of which I received nothing. I’d been brainwashed. My thoughts and behavior had changed so much that my friends and family were worried about me. Most of those I’d recruited had smelled a rat and wanted nothing to do with the cult. I however was on a path to destruction, bent on becoming ‘as good’ as the charismatic leader, punishing myself for all my short comings and imperfections. Short comings and imperfections that the cult induced me to believe I had, by the way.
It was disastrous being an ‘assistant’. I alienated many friends, ran up a £200 phone bill and my business fell apart – all in a ‘process’ that I was told would fast track me to the wealth, happiness and success I wanted; andmake the world a better place.

It appears that ISA has the features of what is called a "Large Group Awareness Training."

The problem with LGaTs is that they are designed to destablise even those who are "mentally strong".

Large Group Awareness Trainings are usually run as businesses, despite all the talk of healing and transformation. Maximizing profit is the chief goal, but recruits are not told this.

Lack of accountability is the major problem with LGATs, which is why so many have come to CEI with harm reports. Licensed physicians and therapists do not require us to sign waivers in which we give up citizen rights to sue for damages in case we incur harm; most LGATS do require subjects to sign these waivers.

In the end, the LGAT takes all the credit for good feelings; if subjects feel upset or harmed, subjects are said not not have been 'ready'.

This reveals the problem: the LGAT claims the power to transform our lives. But if this transformation leaves us feeling harmed the LGAT refuses to accept responsibility for its power.

Anything capable of doing good has the potential to do harm. Drugs such as aspirin have side effects and come with package warnings. But most of the time LGATs never acknowledge that they have side effects. Instead all this is brushed away
by claiming that "This isn't for anyone; you have to be ready."

These articles describe one of the earliest of the LGATs (Lifespring). Many
of these methods have been incorporated into other LGATs. Names and terminology
differ; most of the methods are the same.


Description of the behavioral structure of the training
An excerpt from "The Politics of Transformation: Recruitment - Indoctrination Processes In a Mass Marathon Psychology Organization"

By Philip Cushman, Ph.D.




Pathology as "Personal Growth":
A Participant-Observation Study of Lifespring Training

Psychiatry, Vol 46, August 1983
By Janice Haaken, Ph.D. and Richard Adams, Ph.D.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 12:39AM by corboy.

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