Quote

Even Michael Jackson says what he does is all about Love for the Children! And Jacko probably believes it.

Are you a judge now???? Who are you to judge a man of His guilt???? To say how He feels? Did his "supposed reasons" <I remember.." No Confession, or verdict"> say He did it for love?
S and M was involved how? BDSM? Alphaville? TsO? ~laffs~


Have I said, BDSM brings me love or does it bring sexual gratification to those with sadist and masochistic beliefs?

I have not tried to "Justify" my or anyone else's "sexual perversions"...I certainly do /not/ need anyone else to justify what I do in the privacy of my own home. Period.

Its simply not nice to "peek". ~giggles~

You keep screaming this thread is educational...show me facts.

Regards,
shi

Shi:

Please understand that there will be no "flame war," this board is moderated.

Read the rules.

"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws."

Quote

It is obvious that a flame war is what you "members" wish for.

I have presented facts and my personal opinion. Perhaps, you did not correctly read what I have written?


~smiles politely~ It's not I that desires the "flame"...It is your senior members who refuse to stop "judging and attacking" others.

Quote

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws."

"Sexually Oriented"?????? Perhaps, All here should re read the rules as well....This discussion contains "sexual content"..You are openly discussing "in an Educational Forum"..the sexual perversions of Others.

Mr. Moderator..Practice what you preach!

~grins~

Good Day.

Warmest Regards,

shi

BBT said :

> but can anyone please answer the question.

why is the topic of BDSM in this thread or in this site of Cults?

I have yet to see how its a cult. <

Well, whether or not it is a ‘cult’ depends on how you define the word cult, but we have already looked at the similarities early in this thread.

To re-cap, first there are strong psychological similarities in the power dynamics between cult guru or cult leader and disciple, and the master/slave or sub/dom dynamic.

Second, there is an overlap in who participates in cult groups and BDSM. I was introduced to BDSM by the same people who introduced me to cult groups and I met many of the same people in each activity.

Third, both activities are part of the anti-establishment alternative life-style that likes to oppose mainstream ‘vanilla’ culture.

Fourth, they both give people a buzz, a high or a chemical rush in the head so they serve to dissociate people from reality and create a physical addiction.

There are other similarities – jargon language, intense controlled environment, orchestrated and controlled behaviour and ideology, conformity and symbolic self-surrender to group norms, depersonalisation and change of previous identity, etc.

shi pointed out that there are many types of cults besides BDSM and personal development, including religious ones :

> Lets talk about other "cult" like groups..Christians, Catholics...(wasn't there a case where a Bishop or something molested a bunch of little boys? <on that note, how many parents "thought" a man who preached the word of God....would hurt their children?..not only physically..but mentally.> Anarchy?..Scientology? (FYI: ..all practiced on TSO) <

corboy said :

> ***This intentional practice of informed consent makes ethical BDSM the farthest thing from a cult. <

So-called informed consent (consent under psychological or group or compulsive or authoritarian pressures) is common in cults too.

Coz said :

> cults hit on people when we are in a diminished capacity--we are regressed, confused by life changes, under stress, etc. <

And in BDSM, under the stress of sexual compulsion.

> The problems with cults are ……….. once you are involved, you have no way to set limits when your boundaries are being pushed. <

And BDSM certainly pushes those boundaries !

I agree with Coz here :

> Obviously, people who do BDSM "like" it, and DENY it is harmful.
All of the people in "cults" also LIKE being in the cult, and deny its a harmful cult.

From an outsiders point of view, i do see similarities between them.
Is not a masochist the perfect cultic follower?
Are not many cult leaders Sadists? <

The Moderator said :

‘What behavior consenting adults mutually agree upon is their own business, as long as it is not criminal.’

I would add, except when it causes real damage to people. We control and regulate public smoking and drink-driving because they damage people. I think cults and BDSM are in the same category as smoking or drink-driving, because they all stimulate you and give you a false sense of well-being while undermining your health with negative side-effects, including dependency or mistaken confidence.

Chris

Quote

shi pointed out that there are many types of cults besides BDSM and personal development, including religious ones :

BDSM is /Not/ a cult, Chris. Do not quote me, if you can not seem to do it "correctly"..~tisk tisk~

BDSM/"Sexual Perversions"/kinks are a far cry from being a "cult".

Chris, shall we recap the definitions of each? /again/??? ~laffs~


Mr. Moderator and His rules say.." No sexual-oriented" messages/posts allowed"


Tell us Mr. Moderator ...are you allowing the discussion of sexual perversions or not?



Regards,

shi

P.S

Quote

This thread started over concern about "online games" expressed by a parent.

Quote

Parents have the right to exercise discretion over their minor children, regarding what they do online and what they are exposed to.

A bit "off topic" Mr. Moderator?

What is a child exposed to on The Sims Online or /any/ "online game", <and the community who you people decided to "single out" and attack for their "beliefs, their sexual perversions"> that he or she isn't exposed to on the "internet" alone? hmm?

It is my "opinion" that you people have decided "beforehand" to lean in favor of a cause..("The BDSM Community" being a "cult" )for some "other" reasons other than "its justice"

Prejudice, perhaps?


Regards,

shi

The reason I was concerned about the Sims Online/BSDM connection is not because I'm unaware of what my children can find on the Internet, but because Sims started off as an innocent computer game (for children). Years ago, when my kids were playing the game using the software, I even enjoyed playing a game of it now & then (Sim City and Sim Town).

It WAS educational--learning how to create a town, learning about how the environment can effect business or lifestyle. But this was just a computer game, not an online Internet game.

Is it so terrible that we, as parents, assumed Sims Online would be as innocent as the software games? Well, we live & learn, yes?

My husband is extremely computer savvy (has an MIS degree). He has installed some pretty sophisticated blocking software (which sometimes makes the kids pretty unhappy), which will not allow the kids to visit certain sites. My 14 year old informs me that it blocks certain features of Sims Online as well (because, yes, I had a discussion with her about certain adult-oriented sites linked to the game).

The next challenge will be interesting: the kids are quickly learning how to hack into certain areas and unlock parts of the system they previously had no access to. (Like a timer that logs them off after a set amount of time.) So far my husband is staying ahead of them, keeping them out of danger zones.

But how many parents do NOT have these skills?
And how quickly are our children learning new hi tech skills?
My 14 year old won an end-of-year award last year in middle school for (guess what), Info. Tech.

She had teachers coming to her asking her how to set up web pages, etc.

As far as BSDM being a cult? I don't know....it doesn't seem all that deceptive to me. People who choose to explore that area pretty much know what they're getting into.

In Sahaja Yoga (the cult that I became involved with), I followed the guru because I thought I was learning an especially deep way to meditate and achieve a higher consciousness. I did not know I was in a cult until I was deeply immersed in the lifestyle. It's a slow, subtle form of brainwashing.

I don't see similarities in BSDM (though I admit I know very little of the lifestyle and have never explored it).

Shi,
You are a pleasure to read.
I love to watch you brandish your stilletto heels as you strut over the exposed chests of those that dare to match wits with you.

You must be Dom Extraordinaire.
I bow to your imperious preeminence.

I'd like to invite you to a little gathering on a Tueday night. How would a room of 150 subs appeal to you?

Guy

I want to make it clear that my reflections on 'ethical BDSM' come from information from friends and acquaitances who practiced the art in relationships with living breathing adults.

My comments probably do not apply to 'virtual' BDSM where there is no direct contact between people.

I think the online BDSM has dangers that do not exist for practitioners of ethical BDSM

Online socializing is a different social context than face to face socializing, and IMO certain features of online socializing lead to very distorted perceptions of oneself and other people.

1) When you are in the world with other people, you see their faces, hear their accents, fluctuations in tone of voice, variations in sparkle of the eye. You connect at a non-verbal level.

And real people will speal up if you behave in a manner that is harmful or rude. (Even if they do not speak up, you'll sense unspoken disapproval--also educational!)

A friend told me that when he was a young gay man, fresh out of the closet, he was in the Castro district, talking with another man. My informant said he was constantly gazing at all the other men walking up and down the street. His friend, who was a little older, gave him a lesson in manners.

'When you are talking with someone, you keep your eyes on that person. Give him respect by giving him your attention. Gawking at every cute ass walking up and down the street while in a conversation with someone is F*ing rude--and you look like a jerk, too.' (This was before cell phones became unbiquitous)

In chatrooms and cyberspace, no one will teach you that kind of thing. You have no external controls if your behavior and imagination begin to spiral out of control.

In online settings you cannot see the nonverbal cues that pattern communication and connection between human beings.

If you have social skills but begin getting addicted to chat rooms, you will lose those skills. If you did not have those social skills to begin with, you may miss out on chances to develop them.

2) In real life, people may refuse what you desire. That means you dont always get what you want. You have to learn to accept frustration, learn from these experiences, then try again. Its called humility and character building.

In chat rooms and the other online venues, you can avoid rejection by seeking out specialized subgroups of people who will share your desires and set no limit on you. Eventually some people prefer this risk free socializing to relationships with real people.

These observations apply to online life in general, for subjects other than BDSM, not just BDSM.

And its a problem. If you read Dear Abby, or Craigslist, you hear more and more stories from people whose partners withdraw from them because they get hooked on computer chat rooms and gaming.

Quote

I don't see similarities in BSDM (though I admit I know very little of the lifestyle and have never explored it).

Ofcourse, not.... BDSM is /not/ a cult.

BDSM = kinks....S-E-X-U-A-L P-E-R-V-E-R-S-I-O-N-S! ~smiles~



"Is it so terrible that we, as parents, assumed Sims Online would be as innocent as the software games? "

keyword....." Assume" ...Sexual Perversions are everywhere.. not /just/ The Sims Online...All "online" games...The internet.

Im sure if I stepped behind "your curtain"..you, too are sexually "perverse".

~grins~

"It WAS educational--learning how to create a town, learning about how the environment can effect business or lifestyle. But this was just a computer game, not an online Internet game.ve & learn, yes?"

Lets not forget....learning how to have and take care of a child, death......?

From the sounds of your post...Word Girl , your concerns or "challenges" are not with "sexual perversions".....parenting skills/parenthood , perhaps.
IE:

"And how quickly are our children learning new hi tech skills?"



This forum is simply discussing sexual perversions..not the "challenges" of parenthood and online gaming.

Many "parenting" sites are offered on the internet.

Quote

You must be Dom Extraordinaire.

Thankyou for the compliment, Sir.... ~smiles, batting her ever so innocent, angelic lashes~

I am a submissive with common sense, experience and intelligence..I can see why...why I would appear "Dominant" and not "brainwashed" as you all claim..I /do/ rest my case.

Quote

I'd like to invite you to a little gathering on a Tueday night. How would a room of 150 subs appeal to you?


WordGirl....perfect example ~points above~ ..Here is your typical "online gaming/internet "pervert"...

The answer is "no"...Sir....I am busy. ~laffs~

Thankyou Sir for having "quite the imagination" and proving my point. ~winx~

Lastly......


I even enjoyed playing a game of it now & then (Sim City and Sim Town).

We all enjoy "our" "online gaming".



Warmest Regards,

shi

"I would add, except when it causes real damage to people. We control and regulate public smoking and drink-driving because they damage people. I think cults and BDSM are in the same category as smoking or drink-driving, because they all stimulate you and give you a false sense of well-being while undermining your health with negative side-effects, including dependency or mistaken confidence."

My participation in a D/s relationship in the privacy of my own home, and a M/s relationship online (on adults lots) does not harm you. I have found it to be fulfilling and rewarding, but of course, you (general you, not specific to an individual) will claim i am in denial.

If we, as a culture or society, were to honestly concern ourselves with weeding out things harmful to us, can you imagine the world we would live in. There would be no McDonalds, no automobiles, no red meat. We would have to wear our helmets while riding our bicycles, and i can think of very few relationships (including so called normal ones) that arent harmful in one way or another. Most families are dysfunctional in some way. What shall we do about that? The truth is, that life is harmful ... and people are harmful to each other.

Personally, i dont need anyone to protect me from myself. I am an adult, a responsible and capable adult, and one who lives in a free country. If i make choices that aren't always "healthy" (and i dont agree at all that my marriage is unhealthy), then those are my decisions to make, not yours or society's.

If this D/s or M/s relationship is some sort of crutch, which it appears to me that many think it is, then so be it. So are many human relationships: parent/adult children, AA, religions, weight watchers, and countless self-help groups. It is human nature it seems to depend on others in many forms. I think it would be harmful to weed these out.