Mr. Moderator?

Why do you concern yourself with sexual perversions???

Are we not seeing what has been "quoted from the Webster's Dictionary"?

~as the subject turns to Sadism and Masochism~ ~grins~

Tell me Mr. Moderator?

Are you the "leader of your family"..is your wife? If you still live at home....

Father , Mother?

Do you follow the rules of your government...follow the "lead and leadership of your president"? or do you believe in Anarchy? ~laffs~


Do you follow "Their" rules, orders, beliefs...are you devoted to anything?....perhaps these sites from the "Ideas" of .... doctors/writers you have so kindly given us a link to.....Are you forming a cult yourself, by directing all these readers into believing what you believe?

To me, that is also cultish-like...Mr. Moderator.

Fact is ....No one has "grounds" to stand on..BDSM is here to stay...We didnt peek into your private lives..don't start peeking into "Ours"...Accept what you or anyone else can not change.

Wasted breath....Call Us a cult if you wish..but, everyone has a cultish like behavior in some way or fashion.

Again, this is only my opinion.

Warmest Regards,

shi xo

Just trying to bring this thread back to the actual educational purpose of this website.

This is not a sex site.

The links preivously posted offer criteria to evaluate a group spefically pertaining to the theme and purpose of this website.

I have to disagree with this point.
It reeks of DENIAL and rationalization to me.
This business of "no penalty" is absurd. People always penalize eachother, one way or another, even if its unconsciously.

We all have these Dominant/Submissive tendencies in us.
My guess is that when the "acting out" becomes extreme and life damaging, that is when there is cause for real concern.
A little sexual "drama" is one thing, but an all consuming "lifestyle of BDSM" is something else.

Of course people are going to do what they want to do.
My opinion is that people should carefully evaluate if what they are doing MIGHT be harmful.
And evaluate if some of the "sex-positive" propaganda is accurate, or a form of persuasion.

Thought Control, Cultish relationships, etc., are very tricky things.
Even without BDSM relationships can get "obsessive" and go off the rails.

Coz

Quote

Originally posted by amy dante
However, the submissive does have a loud voice in those relationships and always has the right to refuse with no penalty by saying the safeword.

between BDSM when performed between consenting adults and cultic guru/slave dynamic.

I have been able to talk with well informed persons who are practitioners of the art.

What my informants told me is that persons who 'do' BDSM conduct a great deal of conscious negotiation beforehand. They are 100% clear with each other about what they want, what they do not want, and even set up code words to signal when limits have been reached and the game must stop.

No ethical BDSM group or practioner recruits. People decide they're interested want to explore and seek them out. And you have to be legally adult.

In other words, the core of ethical BDSM is conscious communication, and informed consent between equals.

And, most BDSM is ethical--for practical reasons. it cannot be practiced long term unless participants learn to communicate clearly with each other about expectations and procedures for limit setting. Otherwise too many practitioners would end up injured or in jail--no responsible BDSM person desires such an outcome.

***This intentional practice of informed consent makes ethical BDSM the farthest thing from a cult.

The problems with cults are they that they utilize deceit during the recruitment process, and once you are involved, you have no way to set limits when your boundaries are being pushed.

And cults hit on people when we are in a diminished capacity--we are regressed, confused by life changes, under stress, etc.

By contrast, ethical BDSM practioners negotiate when sober, put all their cards on the table, right from the start. One of my informants said, 'You learn to get to the point. No guessing games. Real BDSM practioners dont tolerate BS.'

Fact is, Mr. Moderator...Sadism and Masochism are "sexual perversions"...in other words..." kinks"...therefore this thread /is/ indeed discussing a topic involving "sex"...not to mention...

Very uneducational.

Lets talk about other "cult" like groups..Christians, Catholics...(wasn't there a case where a Bishop or something molested a bunch of little boys? <on that note, how many parents "thought" a man who preached the word of God....would hurt their children?..not only physically..but mentally.> Anarchy?..Scientology? (FYI: ..all practiced on TSO)

My girls worship Britney Spears!! Do you think that since she is the role model of millions of girls.(not to mention the "FADS")....she's a cult leader? Has anyone seen her latest video...the BDSM~affiliated~ symbolism??? Eminem? The more the bible belts preached..the more rich and popular "they" made Him.

This thread is ridiculous...I bet if We walked into All of Your private lives..We'd all find something We wouldn't necessarily agree with....it isn't "right" nor "educational" to judge others for their beliefs if one is /not/ "effecting" *one* physically. We do have our own community, and it is also advertised..It is Our responsibility to make sure we inform the visitor of our "type of lifestyle and "roleplay" (for some)....as it is your responsibility as parents, as concerned citizens to keep your children/friends away and informed of such activities that they will eventually stumble upon during their course in life...

Is everyone here that insecure?



Warmest Regards,

shi

Corboy certainly covered all this.

The links previously posted offer working definitions of cults, cultic relationships etc.

Movie stars, rock singers and celebrities have "cult followings."

This thread started over concern about "online games" expressed by a parent.

Parents have the right to exercise discretion over their minor children, regarding what they do online and what they are exposed to.

What consenting adults do is not the issue.

What behavior consenting adults mutually agree upon is their own business, as long as it is not criminal.

My last opinion on this subject, is that what people SAY, and what people DO, generally don't have a lot to do with eachother.
There is lots of BDSM "propaganda" from people who say that its 100% consensual and negotiated, and its all good, and its all about love, etc etc etc.
Even Michael Jackson says what he does is all about Love for the Children! He probably believes it too!

I am just saying that beneath the psychological surface, its all not coming up roses.
My OPINION, is that many people involved in this type of Sadism/Masochism thing, are in denial. They SAY that it is all beautiful and wonderful, but the reality is that it doesn't always work out this way.The BDSM "community" is full of propaganda and denial, and rationalizations.

Humans can learn to feel PLEASURE when being abused, or hurting other people.

I am just saying, in my opinion, it is not psychologically healthy.
After all, for those who are True Believers in any coercive-cultic relationship, and are over the age of 18, is that not being a "consenting adult" as well? (I know, they are being tricked. But i am saying there is a lot of self-trickery in S&M.)

Just because people "like" something, doesn't mean its healthy.
Many times people are "acting out" abuse they suffered as children, and repeating and perpetuating it.

And many of these "Masters" are a bunch of twisted sadists. You don't have to believe me, look up sites by self-annointed "Masters" on the internet, and see the pathology yourself. Many of these so-called Masters brag about using Mind-Control, and Hypnosis, and many covert techniques on their human properties/slaves.
Just find some "Master sites" and you will see the serious pathology right in the open.

Also, if a person gets sexually excited by being abused, humiliated, verbally abused, treated like a slave, physically hurt, spit on, shocked, strapped, urinated or defecated on, tortured, and much much much worse that this, then i think they need to think about this.

WHY does this abuse turn them on?
Manytimes people are acting out abuse they suffered as children. We tend to repeat these patterns.
I would suggest they look into some good therapy to see why they are doing that stuff, and why they are getting pleasure from pain.

Will they look into it?
Nope.

Coz

I had been studiously avoiding replying to this , since I don't really have more to say than what I already have, but I must comment now.

Corboy - thank you for such a clear and succinct explanation of the ethics of responsible BDSM. I hope that it may cool some of the heated exchanges that have been occuring. On a personal note, it is heartening to hear this from someone not involved with BDSM themselves - lessens the sense of 'one voice crying to the wind', so to speak. Thank you.

To the folks from Alphaville who are posting here (and those who are undoubtedly reading): Please understand that these forums are a venue for those concerned with the harm done by cults and cultic behaviour and relationships. An assumption of harm or potential harm is inherent to any query made here and to the answers that will be given. This is *not* a specific attack on you, your community, or your choice of lifestyle. It is merely the default position of analysis here -- "what is wrong with this/how can it hurt people".

Penny

Quote

Originally posted by rrmoderator
Corboy certainly covered all this.

What consenting adults do is not the issue.

What behavior consenting adults mutually agree upon is their own business, as long as it is not criminal.

Usually we agree but not on this. Everything has externalities. I'm sure that deviant sexual behavior has bad spill over effects. Perhaps it would be hard to prove it to you but people who engage in harmful and hurtful sexual activities need help. And society suffers from them too.

First of all...Do not associate me with the ones who have posted here for I have only spoken on my behalf...perhaps, the ones 'addressing' the community should "re-read" my posts...answer questions that have been asked.

You are discussing sexual perversions...Not a cult.

It is obvious that a flame war is what you "members" wish for.

Your opinions are judgements.

~smiles~

I /can/ change the direction of my opinions, as well.

BDSM is not a cult, folks...pick up the dictionary and have a gander. ~winx~

Until later,

Regards,

shi