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outtathere
Hey Skippy--

As SpongeBob said to Plankton, when the latter said he was fomenting a plan to take over the world:

"Well, good luck with that." :roll:


Peace out[/color:d15112f5d1]

Good riddance. If you aren't going to give productive feedback, you are of no help. I stand by my belief that you're just bitter at all religions and you're just taking it out on your latest upset. You don't have to believe anything and I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. But you must realize how ridiculous you sound to claim that Bnei Baruch is evil with absolutely no stories to share. So... good riddance!

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rrmoderator
Note the warning signs previously posted.

Are the leaders of the group accountable to a democratically elected board? Can they be disciplined or if need be fired by that board?

How does the group's constitutional bylaws provide for that?

Is there meaningful financial transparency through an independently audited and published financial statement that discloses all salaries, compensation and expenses?

If the group is a religious nonprofit effort these are meaningful questions to ask.

Without such safeguards the group may be little more than a totalitarian structure with little if any meaningful accountability.

These are specific "warning signs" to watch out for.

Thank you, Rick. I will ask these questions if I ever get the urge to become involved with the organization beyond the Kabbalah classes online.

Ok, I'm going to post a few more things. lol
Sometimes, it's about making connections... here's more on Ramtha, that I just saw today, even though I figure you don't care about that.
[mysticbourgeoisie.blogspot.com]
C'mon guy, what might one infer from the fact that Michael Laitman, and his outfit, Bnei Baruch, are giving serious consideration to this stuff? Do you think that Laitman, brilliant fellow that he is, just doesn't know what's going on with this? Got into it by mistake or something? Geez!
And do you really think you can separate this association with insane loopy crap from the body of kabbalistic knowledge [which is anything [i:acfa95b43f]but[/i:acfa95b43f] insane loopy crap, of course] on the BB site? How? Why? What can you say? That the kabbalah on this site is still undoubtedly reasonable, even though the, hello, [i:acfa95b43f][b:acfa95b43f]Kabbalist[/b:acfa95b43f], the world-renowned,"foremost" [b:acfa95b43f]Kabbalist[/b:acfa95b43f] [/i:acfa95b43f]at the helm of that site, is hobnobbing with these fruitcakes? Will you just ignore it and go on?
Now in case you didn't look up the Bleep connection on the BB site, here [www.kabbalah.info]
Science meets Kabbalah indeed. That makes me afraid for science, it really does.

Here's another thing you might try. Get on google, and search for all the seemingly endless kabbalah sites out there, plus the ones that spell it about 10 different ways, especially the Q ones. Maybe you already did this, before you found BB, like I did? You see that Kabbalah is just like Judaism and Christianity, and any other religion you can name, in that there are endless varieties of it, countless various Ravs and Rebbes and Rabbis all spouting their own personal spin and calling it THE TRUTH, G-d's truth, blessed be He. Did it ever occur to you that Yehuda Ashlag and his son(s) had other students aside from Laitman? I myself didn't think about that, until someone had brought it up in the BB forum one time.
This is from wikipedia

Ashlag saw himself as fulfilling a quasi-messianic role in bringing Kabbalah to the world. His main disciples included his sons, Baruch Shalom, Shlomo Benyamin, and Rabbi Yehuda Brandwein.[/color:acfa95b43f]
Rabbi Baruch (d.1990), and Rabbi Brandwein (d.1969), both left students who are involved in spreading Ashlagian Kabbalah. Brandwein’s son-in-law, Rabbi Mordechai Sheinberger], founded a commune in Israel called Ohr HaGanuz ("The Hidden Light"), which combines Ashlag’s communal ideals with devotion to the spreading of Kabbalah.[/color:acfa95b43f]
Yes, Ashlag had an agenda. Please do read up on that.
and
After the demise of the Rabash [Baruch Aslag], several of his disciples continued to study according to his method, the most prominent of which are Rabbi Avraham Mordecai Gotlieb, and Rav Michael Laitman, PhD. One of his beloved students is D'zerke Rebbe Rabbi Aharon Brizel who is currently teaching this method in Jerusalem and in New York.[/color:acfa95b43f]

From time to time, people on the BB forum will ask about these others, as I said, and if Bnei Baruch is associated with them. They don't want to say much about it, but of course, the answer is no. So much for socialistic togetherness and a common vision. Now wouldn't it be a kick to hear what these other former students, and other kabbalists (they think they are such, but Laitman probably doesn't think so--no kabbalists outside of Israel, he's said) think of him and Bnei Baruch?

Perhaps our friend from katot.org will pay us a visit here, yes? He would have so much more to contribute, so many stories and insights he may wish to tell, straight from the center of things, so to speak. As for me, I'm just a bitter, mean-spirited, disgruntled english-speaking American who doesn't know much. He'll probably tell you I have it all wrong.

Hello Everyone.

My name is Mike Kellogg and I am an instructor for Bnei Baruch here in the United States. I was sent a link to this forum and after reading many of the posts, I can see that there are some serious misconceptions here.

I wanted anyone and everyone here to be able to ask anything they want with regard to Bnei Baruch, our organization, and what we do, and I will be more than happy to answer any and all questions any member may have.

Best Wishes To All

Mike

Mike:

Are the leaders of the group accountable to a democratically elected board? Can they be disciplined or if need be fired by that board?

How does the group's constitutional bylaws provide for that?

Is there meaningful financial transparency through an independently audited and published financial statement that discloses all salaries, compensation and expenses?

This message is not for a post, the system would not allow me to Private Message the Moderator. I answered the question from the moderator, but the system did not show that it was posted but instead sent me back to post a reply. Please let me know one way or the other if the response was received.

Mike

MikeBB:

You came here to answer questions, per the statment in your opening post.

You said,

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"I will be more than happy to answer any and all questions any member may have."

Just answer the questions here on the board.

Private messageing is not allowed until a member has 10 approved posts.

Posting personal contact information on the board is not allowed.

Apparently the message I sent to the moderator was not understood. I answered the questions in a post and there seemed to be a technical problem. Before I answered them all over again, I sent that post trying to find out if the original answers posted. The first line of the post said "this is not for posting". Now to the moderator's questions.

Bnei Baruch is made up of committees for different functions. Those committees are formed through vollenteers within BB. There are no restrictions on who can vollenteer. One of those committees is a disciplinary committee that does have the power to remove a person from their duties for such things as lying etc. These provisions are in the group's constitution.

There are no audits or financial reports for the sole reason that our organization is so small. Everyone here has private jobs such as myself. For instance, I own a small software company in southern Illinois. Tony Kosenic owns a successful recording studio in Canada. We are paid nothing for our efforts nor would we want to be.

As for employees, there are no employees in the least in all of North America. Bnei Baruch in Israel keeps a small staff for editing new books and technical for all of our internet dissemination, but the salaries would be considered below poverty level in the US. As for Michael Laitman, he maintains his own business in the medical industry and does not profit a single penny off of Bnei Baruch.

Our efforts are totally funded by BB members and we do not directly solicit any funds from anybody. We do have a small icon on our site where if someone wants to support our efforts, they can do so. But you will also notice that there is no charge for anything. Even our books are all available totally free to download from our site.

If and when the need arises (such as people wanting to make large donations and so forth), we will pay for independent audits, but at present, such an audit would be more expensive than our entire annual budget.

Kindest Regards,

Mike

So Laitman could be fired or dismissed by a committee?

And Laitman receives no money whatsoever?

What is the budget for the "small staff" and the total budget for BB?

Does BB publish an annual budget report that details this?

How do you feel about the following statement?

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"It is considered a great honor to be part of Bnei Baruch, not because the people within the group are special people, but because the Creator chose them to reveal the Wisdom of Kabbalah and spread it throughout the world – therefore they are special."

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So Laitman could be fired or dismissed by a committee?

First of all, fired from what? Michael Laitman is a teacher for the group and does not recieve any income. Could they ask him to stop teaching them? Of course.

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And Laitman receives no money whatsoever?

As I said above, Michael Laitman receives no money whatsoever and must rely on his business just as myself or anyone else.

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What is the budget for the "small staff" and the total budget for BB?

The staff consists of about 10 (or fewer) men and women who as previously stated, earn less that what would be considered the poverty level wages here in the US. I will leave it to you to do the mathmatics. As for the remainder of the budget, it is totally consumed in broadcast efforts around the world and runs into 10's of thousands of dollars annually. This money comes from members of Bnei Baruch.

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Does BB publish an annual budget report that details this?

For who? The financial committee reports every week to the members of BB and everyone is informed of where all the funds are going. I do understand your fishing expedition with regard to money as the US runs on the almighty dollar, but you will not find a problem with regard to money and BB.

How could there be? We provide free lessons and make every book available totally free of charge by way of the internet. For those wishing a hard copy of a book, they have that option as well. We are not a charity and do not solicit public donations directly. There is simply a link to support the efforts, no one is written or coerced or even asked to give money. Furthermore, we do not solicit students. They come to us.

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How do you feel about the following statement?

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"It is considered a great honor to be part of Bnei Baruch, not because the people within the group are special people, but because the Creator chose them to reveal the Wisdom of Kabbalah and spread it throughout the world – therefore they are special."

It gives me great pleasure to agree with every single word of this statement. But in order to understand it, one must first understand that in Kabbalah "Creator" means the source of all desires. Every action we make, we make because we have a desire to do so. The Source of those desires we call "Creator".

The members of Bnei Baruch share a desire to reveal this Wondrous Wisdom to any and everyone that wants to know it. Since all desires originate from this Source called the "Creator", the word "chosen" means that these people were specifically sent this shared desire.

Actually I feel the same way about people such as Billy Graham, who received a desire to reveal Christianity to millions of people around the world. People that share that same desire would be considered special as well. For that matter, so would a group of physicists that work together to reveal to humanity the mysteries of the corporeal universe.

In other words, do not misunderstand the word "special". We do not believe we are better than anyone else. We are just people, but people that share a distinct responsibility to help any and all who wish to understand what Kabbalah is all about.

Kindest Regards,

Mike