The Dream Center
Posted by:
kactus
()
Date: December 09, 2006 12:37PM
Does anybody have any information about a church in L.A. called the Dream Center? My daughter called me from there today and says that she is considering going off into the Colorado mountains to join this church! Out of the blue!
I made her promise to wait to make a decision for a couple of days so that I could do some research on them. Nothing I've found so far has worried me too much but I still think it's very unusual for my daughter to just up and decide to go off like that.
Any information you give me would be very helpful. Thank you,
kactus
I made her promise to wait to make a decision for a couple of days so that I could do some research on them. Nothing I've found so far has worried me too much but I still think it's very unusual for my daughter to just up and decide to go off like that.
Any information you give me would be very helpful. Thank you,
kactus
The Dream Center
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: December 09, 2006 02:34PM
I have not heard of this organisation before, but I did a little research after reading your message. I noticed that The Dream Centre is active on the Gold Coast, which is cult central for Australia.
Personally I think that the following account is disturbing and sugguesstive of a charismatic leadership and potentially a dangerous cult.
[www.geocities.com]
If your daughter has agreed to wait as you asked her to then it would seem that she has good critical reasoning still intact - ie she is willing to seek other sources of information.
I think that you should have a talk with her about what destructive behaviour is and what the consequences can be. You may be able to raise with her the possibility that this is a cult, although most cults have readily available answers as to why they do not fit this definition and rationalise it as prejudice, misunderstanding etc.
If she could be aware of the sorts of behaviours that cults engage in, isolation, saying that all other religions are wrong, limiting access to information, maintaining that the leader is beyond any question, giving over money and/or posessions, having no contact with outsiders giving up family relationships etc. then hopefully if she does still choose to go then her critical reasoning will remain intact.
You may want to search the database here for other Christian based organisations and discuss the points of similarity there with her or have her read some of the articles or read through them together.
Maybe you could try honestly stating to her your concerns, that she may be harmed by this organisation, that you may lose contact with her, or whatever they may be and ask her the reasons why she has to go away with them, why she can't participate from where she is or at least have more experience of them before diving into that. I made this mistake myself the reason being that I had to go where I went to access the teachings and associate with others, there was no other option and it was what I really wanted. Only what I saw through experience and the way I was abused there made me realise it was a mistake, and even then the truth is that had circumstances not transpired to break up the relationship that I was in with another cult member because of their beliefs I would most likely have been there a lot longer and learned how to turn a blind eye to the negatives like the others there do. I am not faithless now thinking that searching for faith is a negative thing for anyone, I just don't like the idea of anyone being hurt by similar circumstances. I know my life would have been hell if I was still there, but in all honesty it is the most likely decision I would have made.
I know from experience that one does not have to be on a commune or physically restrained to get caught up in a cult and for it to have a destructive influence on their life, but if someone had told me this about the cult I was going into I would not have believed it. Being physically free to go at anytime does not mean that you are psychologically or emotionally free to go once you have been under their influence.
I do imagine that having someone on the 'outside' who is personally supportive and available if things go wrong would make a big difference.
There may be nothing sinister at all about this group, but it certainly does not hurt to be aware. I wish you and your daughter all the best.
Personally I think that the following account is disturbing and sugguesstive of a charismatic leadership and potentially a dangerous cult.
[www.geocities.com]
Quote
Ps Rod Gilchrist announced on the previous Thursday in Perth he
went to heaven for 4 hours. Many people have heard about this since. This is what I roughly hand recorded in my journal and newsletter Sunday 27 May 2001 being at all 3 services and then Monday night 28 May 2001. It was because of this event that the name of the church was changed to "The Dream Centre"
If your daughter has agreed to wait as you asked her to then it would seem that she has good critical reasoning still intact - ie she is willing to seek other sources of information.
I think that you should have a talk with her about what destructive behaviour is and what the consequences can be. You may be able to raise with her the possibility that this is a cult, although most cults have readily available answers as to why they do not fit this definition and rationalise it as prejudice, misunderstanding etc.
If she could be aware of the sorts of behaviours that cults engage in, isolation, saying that all other religions are wrong, limiting access to information, maintaining that the leader is beyond any question, giving over money and/or posessions, having no contact with outsiders giving up family relationships etc. then hopefully if she does still choose to go then her critical reasoning will remain intact.
You may want to search the database here for other Christian based organisations and discuss the points of similarity there with her or have her read some of the articles or read through them together.
Maybe you could try honestly stating to her your concerns, that she may be harmed by this organisation, that you may lose contact with her, or whatever they may be and ask her the reasons why she has to go away with them, why she can't participate from where she is or at least have more experience of them before diving into that. I made this mistake myself the reason being that I had to go where I went to access the teachings and associate with others, there was no other option and it was what I really wanted. Only what I saw through experience and the way I was abused there made me realise it was a mistake, and even then the truth is that had circumstances not transpired to break up the relationship that I was in with another cult member because of their beliefs I would most likely have been there a lot longer and learned how to turn a blind eye to the negatives like the others there do. I am not faithless now thinking that searching for faith is a negative thing for anyone, I just don't like the idea of anyone being hurt by similar circumstances. I know my life would have been hell if I was still there, but in all honesty it is the most likely decision I would have made.
I know from experience that one does not have to be on a commune or physically restrained to get caught up in a cult and for it to have a destructive influence on their life, but if someone had told me this about the cult I was going into I would not have believed it. Being physically free to go at anytime does not mean that you are psychologically or emotionally free to go once you have been under their influence.
I do imagine that having someone on the 'outside' who is personally supportive and available if things go wrong would make a big difference.
There may be nothing sinister at all about this group, but it certainly does not hurt to be aware. I wish you and your daughter all the best.
The Dream Center
Posted by:
kactus
()
Date: December 10, 2006 04:55AM
yes, these are all concerns that I have decided to raise with her, and to give her some options to consider.
My biggest fear is for her to go through the same kind of experience I had as a young person, getting involved in a pentecostal church that had a real cult of personality around the pastor to the point that no matter what he did there was unquestioning acceptance of his authority. Leaving that church in that way made it impossible for me to ever trust in a church authority again, has made me very cynical. And my daughter is a very lost soul, which cults and cult-like churches really exploit.
I will be emailing her with my concerns. I hope that she is open-minded enough to listen to me.
My biggest fear is for her to go through the same kind of experience I had as a young person, getting involved in a pentecostal church that had a real cult of personality around the pastor to the point that no matter what he did there was unquestioning acceptance of his authority. Leaving that church in that way made it impossible for me to ever trust in a church authority again, has made me very cynical. And my daughter is a very lost soul, which cults and cult-like churches really exploit.
I will be emailing her with my concerns. I hope that she is open-minded enough to listen to me.
The Dream Center
Posted by:
XLionheartX
()
Date: December 15, 2006 12:29AM
The Dream Center L.A. was founded by the infamous Phil Aguilar of Set Free. His financiers were Matthew Barnett and Co. He was ejected from the property in 1999 I think. When I was there I saw violence from Phil, his children and his cohorts, open drinking & drug abuse.
IMO: Anyone connected so deeply with Phil Aguilar is suspect. I feel the morality of his business partners must be very low to associate with a man of this type.
I know good programs are hard to find for people who need a home. Groups like this can only use people who have been neglected or abused themselves.
I feel that you should consider taking your daughter back and offering her a childhood experience again.
IMO: Anyone connected so deeply with Phil Aguilar is suspect. I feel the morality of his business partners must be very low to associate with a man of this type.
I know good programs are hard to find for people who need a home. Groups like this can only use people who have been neglected or abused themselves.
I feel that you should consider taking your daughter back and offering her a childhood experience again.
The Dream Center
Posted by:
kactus
()
Date: December 15, 2006 05:03AM
xLionheartx--thank you for the information. I haven't heard from my daughter in several days, although she has recently updated her myspace page with no reference to this...so maybe it was just a passing whim. I'm curious to know what you mean by this: " I feel that you should consider taking your daughter back and offering her a childhood experience again."
The Dream Center
Posted by:
XLionheartX
()
Date: December 16, 2006 05:18PM
Quote
kactus
I'm curious to know what you mean by this: " I feel that you should consider taking your daughter back and offering her a childhood experience again."
From my experience with the cult I was involved in, almost all the people we used (and we cycled through a lot of people), only needed the basic support of a roof, food, and a few minutes of fellowship from an authority figure.
They seemed to crave structure, and all gave me the esteem of a parent, acting like my children, even though some were much older than me. Almost all seem to lack the basic experience of family dinners, washing dishes, doing laundry, and a set "lights out" time.
I feel cultic and abusive churches use that need for family and a parent /child relationship to gain control over the participants lives. Even the threat of expulsion from the group would make them try to stay even harder. One of our catch phrases was: "See the door locks on the inside, you can leave anytime you want."
Read more about the techniques and the role of the victim in Mr. Ross's writings, they are great insight in how you can also prevent a cult encounter with someone you love.
The Dream Center
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: December 16, 2006 10:16PM
Hi K,
I really hope that all is going well for you and your daughter.
I can relate to what Lionheart has expressed. In my opinion such needs or attractions are not to say that one was necessarily lacking or deprived of these aspects in their life. Perhaps they had them in abundance and simply miss them and see this as an opportunity to replicate such happiness in their adult lives.
Such conditions which I did not have myself were major inducements for me to stay in the cult that I was in. Is it possible that a relationship may also be involved with your daughter, such as meeting a new friend or boyfriend? By my experience this complicates things.
The first and foremost reason that I was in a cult though was because I was seeking a spiritual life.
There are many safe and personally fulfilling ways to do this as I mentioned rather than going deep into going off with a particular group. Knowledge and self confidence in one's own sense of sprituality will both prevent someone from getting into an abusive organisation. Knowing this such organisations aim to recruit certain types of people who are easier to convince of their absolute authority and become compliant.
My sugguestion would be that if your daughter does have serious spiritual beliefs or interests and desires to follow these that there is nothing that anyone is likely to be able to do to dissaude her from this, even if they want to, but many ways they can encourage her to do so in other ways besides going off with this group, and be tolerant if not accepting of her personal beliefs (such as if they vary from your own).
Attaining spiritual knowledge and developing that aspect of one's self can incorporate a lot of exploration and it is a terrible shame to see anyone deprived of that potential. Going into a group that does not encourage exploration and self determination will do this, and the personal consequences can be very devastating.
I really hope that all is going well for you and your daughter.
I can relate to what Lionheart has expressed. In my opinion such needs or attractions are not to say that one was necessarily lacking or deprived of these aspects in their life. Perhaps they had them in abundance and simply miss them and see this as an opportunity to replicate such happiness in their adult lives.
Such conditions which I did not have myself were major inducements for me to stay in the cult that I was in. Is it possible that a relationship may also be involved with your daughter, such as meeting a new friend or boyfriend? By my experience this complicates things.
The first and foremost reason that I was in a cult though was because I was seeking a spiritual life.
There are many safe and personally fulfilling ways to do this as I mentioned rather than going deep into going off with a particular group. Knowledge and self confidence in one's own sense of sprituality will both prevent someone from getting into an abusive organisation. Knowing this such organisations aim to recruit certain types of people who are easier to convince of their absolute authority and become compliant.
My sugguestion would be that if your daughter does have serious spiritual beliefs or interests and desires to follow these that there is nothing that anyone is likely to be able to do to dissaude her from this, even if they want to, but many ways they can encourage her to do so in other ways besides going off with this group, and be tolerant if not accepting of her personal beliefs (such as if they vary from your own).
Attaining spiritual knowledge and developing that aspect of one's self can incorporate a lot of exploration and it is a terrible shame to see anyone deprived of that potential. Going into a group that does not encourage exploration and self determination will do this, and the personal consequences can be very devastating.
The Dream Center
Posted by:
sametanner
()
Date: December 17, 2006 03:19PM
Kactus,
The Dream Center may be the same group mentioned in the thread, "What kind of cult is this?? How can I save my daughter??. It is here under the same category, "Cults", Sects, and "New Religious Movements". In any case, you need to re-establish contact with your daughter right away, as many cults recruit very aggressively and try to move the new recruit to a remote group location ASAP before family and friends can reach them or reason with them.
If you can and if your daughter is open to the idea, have her read as many accounts here as possible, whether they're about the Dream Center or not. There is a great deal of commonality in the ways most of these groups recruit, use thought reform methods, and abuse their followers. It's a safe bet that if they require your daughter to move away from family, school, and all that's familiar to her (and especially if they are in a great hurry to do so) that this is an abusive dangerous cult up to no good. If they're in a hurry to relocate her, it's because they don't want her to have time to think about this, to research them, and to seek the counsel of others. Time is important!! Good Luck! :!:
The Dream Center may be the same group mentioned in the thread, "What kind of cult is this?? How can I save my daughter??. It is here under the same category, "Cults", Sects, and "New Religious Movements". In any case, you need to re-establish contact with your daughter right away, as many cults recruit very aggressively and try to move the new recruit to a remote group location ASAP before family and friends can reach them or reason with them.
If you can and if your daughter is open to the idea, have her read as many accounts here as possible, whether they're about the Dream Center or not. There is a great deal of commonality in the ways most of these groups recruit, use thought reform methods, and abuse their followers. It's a safe bet that if they require your daughter to move away from family, school, and all that's familiar to her (and especially if they are in a great hurry to do so) that this is an abusive dangerous cult up to no good. If they're in a hurry to relocate her, it's because they don't want her to have time to think about this, to research them, and to seek the counsel of others. Time is important!! Good Luck! :!:
The Dream Center
Posted by:
rod
()
Date: December 25, 2006 04:01PM
Hi My name is Rod. I happen to be the Pastor of the Dream Centre on the Gold Coast. For the record, it is important for you to realise that the Church in the U.S is not related to, nor have I ever met anyone from there. We just happen to have the same name. I have Pastored the Church here for over 17 years. We have never nor would we ever"move someone or relocate them......" I am not even sure what that all means. Basically people come to Church on Sundays. We care for them and help them where we can and they go home. I do hope that it all sorts out with your daughter though... Blessings Rod
The Dream Center
Posted by:
DiscoverChurch
()
Date: December 29, 2006 07:21PM
I’m the author of the quoted web site in 2nd post [www.geocities.com]
[www.geocities.com]
Firstly, Yes it is true, I did go to "The Dream Centre" at the Gold Coast Australia in 28 May 2001 with my nephew Greg Alder from [churchcamps.sunsetsafaris.com.au] who is known to Rod Gilchrist. (Greg was dux of an Assembly of God bible college which I also visited. Greg does beach island evangelism camps.)
Secondly, however, I have also heard Matthew Barnett preach from the "other" "The Dream Centre" who’s organisation is in Los Angeles. (I can’t fit everything on my web site but if people ask questions, I’ll answer.) Matthew Barnett has a photo with his name on this site as of 29/12/06
[www2.hillsong.com]
I heard Matthew Barnett preach at Assembly of God Spring St Toowoomba in about 2000 - 2003. Ten things to know.
1. Shortly after, a girl from that church joined him and never came back.
2. Barnett confessed with his own mouth that he financially conspired with the most Pharisical church in the world.
3. His dad is another PAID preacher.
4. You can bet your bottom dollar that this organisation is just another highly controlled, regimented quasi spiritual government just trying to get another piece of the financial pie out of the gospel while pushing and abusing the poor.
5. It SOUNDS great but don’t believe it. i.e. A former Catholic hospital turned into a 24/7 evangelism drug help centre. Your better off spending your money on a stranger who needs your help secretly. THAT is Scripture.
Thirdly, people like Barnett and Gilchrist are cut with the same pie. Gilchrist is merely a cohort of Kenneth Copeland ministries from TV. There is very little difference between Abundant Life Fellowship and Assembly of God or wherever Barnett exactly fits in. Both denominations are rife with divorce, adultery, drugs, you name it. People do not realise this but the BIBLE says remarriage IS adultery. Why don’t you hear this from the pulpit? Because Kenneth Copeland himself is remarried! If I had to EXAGGERATE what ACTUALLY happens in the "Institutionalised Church", I would say that it’s a bit like cutting rust out of your car. What you see is nothing. Magnify it by ten. That is the real picture. Be wise! If the world has enough sense not to invest all their money in ONE area, maybe you should do the same and NOT PUT ALL YOUR EGGS INTO ONE DENOMINATION.
Fourthly, I was so disgusted in Gilchrist’s denomination that I protested on the footpath of one of his churches when Kenneth Copeland’s daughter came to preach in 2006! Show me a Jew and his synagogue and Rabbi and I’ll show you a Christian with his church and Pastor. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! Look closely at Scripture and you will see the "Institutionalised Church" has copied Judaism. DON’T EVER LISTEN TO YOUR PASTOR. Focus on Scripture only.
[www.geocities.com]
Firstly, Yes it is true, I did go to "The Dream Centre" at the Gold Coast Australia in 28 May 2001 with my nephew Greg Alder from [churchcamps.sunsetsafaris.com.au] who is known to Rod Gilchrist. (Greg was dux of an Assembly of God bible college which I also visited. Greg does beach island evangelism camps.)
Secondly, however, I have also heard Matthew Barnett preach from the "other" "The Dream Centre" who’s organisation is in Los Angeles. (I can’t fit everything on my web site but if people ask questions, I’ll answer.) Matthew Barnett has a photo with his name on this site as of 29/12/06
[www2.hillsong.com]
I heard Matthew Barnett preach at Assembly of God Spring St Toowoomba in about 2000 - 2003. Ten things to know.
1. Shortly after, a girl from that church joined him and never came back.
2. Barnett confessed with his own mouth that he financially conspired with the most Pharisical church in the world.
3. His dad is another PAID preacher.
4. You can bet your bottom dollar that this organisation is just another highly controlled, regimented quasi spiritual government just trying to get another piece of the financial pie out of the gospel while pushing and abusing the poor.
5. It SOUNDS great but don’t believe it. i.e. A former Catholic hospital turned into a 24/7 evangelism drug help centre. Your better off spending your money on a stranger who needs your help secretly. THAT is Scripture.
Thirdly, people like Barnett and Gilchrist are cut with the same pie. Gilchrist is merely a cohort of Kenneth Copeland ministries from TV. There is very little difference between Abundant Life Fellowship and Assembly of God or wherever Barnett exactly fits in. Both denominations are rife with divorce, adultery, drugs, you name it. People do not realise this but the BIBLE says remarriage IS adultery. Why don’t you hear this from the pulpit? Because Kenneth Copeland himself is remarried! If I had to EXAGGERATE what ACTUALLY happens in the "Institutionalised Church", I would say that it’s a bit like cutting rust out of your car. What you see is nothing. Magnify it by ten. That is the real picture. Be wise! If the world has enough sense not to invest all their money in ONE area, maybe you should do the same and NOT PUT ALL YOUR EGGS INTO ONE DENOMINATION.
Fourthly, I was so disgusted in Gilchrist’s denomination that I protested on the footpath of one of his churches when Kenneth Copeland’s daughter came to preach in 2006! Show me a Jew and his synagogue and Rabbi and I’ll show you a Christian with his church and Pastor. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! Look closely at Scripture and you will see the "Institutionalised Church" has copied Judaism. DON’T EVER LISTEN TO YOUR PASTOR. Focus on Scripture only.
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