Wondering if this is a cult in the making?

[www.vodoushaman.com]

[www.vodoushaman.com]

SB.

You may have stumbled onto something...

Personally, I have an interest in certain tribal cultures. I find the idea of shamanism as a means to exploring mythology fascinating. Perhaps, it's because of my own heritage - an interest in my pagan/heathen roots.

I'll have a good look at this 'Ross Heaven' website and see what it's all about (well, as much as I can, anyway). Already there's the sniff of 'big' dollars. And to spend 7 hours a day in complete darkness?

Do I get peyote with that?

Sounds a bit suspect... :?:

From the site:

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The Heart of Darkness is a ceremonial encounter which is open to those who have completed a Darkness Visible™ workshop with Ross and now wish to step more deeply into the relatively unknown regions of inner and outer space. Working with the Mythic Self, beyond the rational mind, we enter a place where the dreamer dreams himself into being.

There's mention of spending whole days in the dark. I really don't like it when so-called spiritual organisations start TRADEMARKING words and phrases.

Beyond the rational mind? Dreaming yourself into being? Sounds like LGATs to me. Or another bad sequel to Herbert's DUNE...

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Jack Oskar Larm
Sounds like LGATs to me. Or another bad sequel to Herbert's DUNE...

LOL watch out for the giant worms :D

Living in the UK, this time of year I try and get as much light as I can, and it's not easy :)

There are some parts of the world it's actually completely dark for 24 hours, such as Antartica, and more habitable parts which experience only twilight for some parts of the year.

I don't think people staying their become enlightened if anything they tend to become depressed.

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Jack Oskar Larm
You may have stumbled onto something...

Actually I've known about this guy for sometime. He's trained in voudou. He used to be a respected shaman and part of EagleSwing ( www.shamanism.co.uk ) - a perfectly respectable and trustworthy organisation running safe courses in all kinds of shamanic activities. But now no-one will work with him and he kinda got kicked out. Actually he has 'lost the plot' is what a few well known practitioners have stated.

Do research this stuff. Darkness Visible has been well written up in various magazines. But as you say the darkness of a typical English winter's day is bad enough, without being in darkness for 24 hours plus.

Then there is the Village Project - which sounds like the beginnings of a cult-like commune.

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He used to be a respected shaman and part of EagleSwing ( www.shamanism.co.uk ) - a perfectly respectable and trustworthy organisation running safe courses in all kinds of shamanic activities. But now no-one will work with him and he kinda got kicked out. Actually he has 'lost the plot' is what a few well known practitioners have stated.

I would think that would be the first warning that something is not quite right about this.

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Do research this stuff. Darkness Visible has been well written up in various magazines.

I would be interested to know what magazines have given Darkness Visible good write ups. Alternative health media of which I read several major publications on a regular basis is not particularly discerning about promoting cults.

Sensory deprivation is certainly nothing new, it is really just an imposed form of meditation, probably designed to be more appealling to those that feel they lack the mental discipline to focus otherwise.

[en.wikipedia.org]

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Though short periods of sensory deprivation can be relaxing, extended deprivation can result in extreme anxiety, hallucinations, bizarre thoughts, depression, and antisocial behavior

In 1986 United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture listed "sensory deprivation" among the techniques constituting torture. Other groups, such as the Boston Center for Refugee Health and Human Rights, for example, lists sensory deprivation as a type of "mental torture".

Meditation by itself can be a tool for inducing sugguestibility with some researchers finding that it cuts off the action in the part of the brain that controls sense of self and can be on the same level as hypnosis. Psychologically I think that it would be a pretty safe bet that this sort of thing, especially over a 24 hour period would not be healthy - I doubt very much so that Gauntanamo Bay is an under cover health resort.

On a forum such as this, which seeks truth and provides advice to others, it is important to correct misinformation (or [b:8cec5531c8]dis[/b:8cec5531c8]information) so that the assessments offered here are not just gossip or questionable in their motive.

For that reason, maybe I can clear up this thread with some genuine and firsthand experience of Darkness Visible.

I have been a student of Ross Heaven's for some years and attended a Darkness Visible course with him in 2005, so I know him pretty well and, no, I've not been

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brainwashed

into his

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cult

! I can speak absolutely and with real experience of his integrity.

To correct S_Buyers666 first of all:

1. Ross Heaven has not

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lost the plot

or

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got kicked out

of anything. In fact, he is highly respected in modern shamanism, is the author of 12 books, all of them extremely well-received, and this year, at the invitation of the extremely well-respected Society of Shamanic Practitioners, will present a workshop at their first residential conference in Glastonbury. This is the organisation led, in the US, by Sandra Ingerman, Tom Cowan, and other highly regarded figures. You just don't get an invite to present there unless your peers respect your work and your integrity.

2. Ross Heaven has never been a member of

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EagleSwing

(you mean Eagle's Wing, I think).

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EagleSwing

is an organisation run by Leo Rutherford (also a presenter at the same conference and a good friend of Ross'). One of its directors is Howard Charing, with whom Ross did, at one time, run workshops. Howard also contributed some material to Ross' excellent book, Plant Spirit Shamanism. Ross no longer works with Howard due to Howard's difficulties in keeping his anger under control. Perhaps you are confused therefore and meant to suggest that it is Howard who has

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lost the plot

? The shamans of the Amazon would agree with you and there are only a handful now who will work with Howard there, despite the fact that he earns most of his money by running ayahuasca tourism trips to the jungle.

In answer to Jack, why

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shouldn't

any organisation or individual (

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spiritual

- whatever that means - or otherwise) trademark any process it or he has developed? That seems entirely fair to me. It is their work after all.

I have spoken to Ross about his trademarking of Darkness Visible and it is a step he took because another organisation has been running DV workshops illegally [i:8cec5531c8]in his name[/i:8cec5531c8]. The people who run this other organisation are not trained in DV techniques and could potentially have caused a lot of problems for students. Ross therefore trademarked the process to prevent this as a matter of student safety. That other organisation might still be running similar courses by a different name, however, so buyer beware!

The

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sniff of big dollars

you're sniffing, btw, is a workshop cost of just £495 for a week, fully residential in a hotel-style country house, with all food, training, materials, assistants, and 24-hour care included. In the UK, you could barely get a week full-board in a hotel for that, never mind the training.

To S_Byers666 again: Darkness Visible is not

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a cult in the making

! It's a one-week workshop (which I found [b:8cec5531c8]really [/b:8cec5531c8]useful) and, if you read Ross' book of the same name before you make judgements like this, you'll discover that the use of darkness meditation in its purest form has been used by shamans in lots of different cultures for [i:8cec5531c8]centuries[/i:8cec5531c8]! The Kogi indians, for example, keep their shamans in darkness [i:8cec5531c8]for 19 years [/i:8cec5531c8]before they come back to the tribe. Are the Kogi indians also in a

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cult

????

And nor is The Village a

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cult

. In it's plainest form it's a new retreat centre that Ross and some others are setting up. Maybe you should visit and get clearer on your facts? Fyi, as well,

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EagleSwing

(according to you,

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a perfectly respectable and trustworthy organisation running safe courses

) operates from a country house in Sussex where Leo and two women live together in a (non-sexual) community where they practice shamanic rituals together. And yet, that is not defined as a

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cult

in your terms but seems perfectly OK by you. Double standards, or just ignorance of the facts?

Other people here asked for signposts to articles written about Darkness Visible. If you go to [www.thefourgates.com] you'll find extracts from an article written by Katy Weitz, the Features Editor of the Observer, a national newspaper in the UK, who also took part in a Darkness Visible workshop with Ross, as well as endorsements for Ross' work by Malidoma Some and Sandra Ingerman, both well-respected peers. All of them are positive about Darkness Visible work and all of them, as opposed to the speculators here, have also taken part in Ross' workshops or in darkness work themselves.

I hope this clears things up. I know that you would not wish to be spreading rumours and idle gossip in the place of genuine information.

I've no doubt that darkness can be used for meditation and ritual, but:-

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veronicanoodle
The Kogi indians, for example, keep their shamans in darkness [i:4ec455bbb2]for 19 years [/i:4ec455bbb2]before they come back to the tribe.

I doubt this, seriously. For many reasons. In complete darkness? For the entire time? How would they maintain that, for a start?
:)

Re the Kogi Indian shaman, or Mamas, at least from what I've read ( no personal knowledge) apparently the Shaman training begins in early childhood, for two periods of nine years.They are required to be noctural during training : get trained etc only during the night, and have to cover their heads with a mat during the full moon.Taught dances etc by the light of the fire.
Hope this helps, Yasmin

Kath,
If you read One River (a book) by Wade Davis, you will find information on the Kogis to set your mind at rest. Dr Davis is a well-known ahtropologist (Harvard, I believe) and on the editorial panel for National Geographic. As far as I know, he is not a cult leader either.