James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
Acid Reindeer
()
Date: December 02, 2006 02:41AM
Quote
cultreporter
So in your opinion Kath it is better to have free access to medical options that make a person sick and cause thousands of deaths per year (and please consider that these statistics come from a country with a relatively small population) than it is to have access to medical options that [i:06c4627aa6][b:06c4627aa6]might [/b:06c4627aa6][/i:06c4627aa6]not work but are certainly not hurting anybody?
in life you can have both/and options as well as either/or.
that style of thinking has popped up a lot in this particular thread.
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: December 02, 2006 02:43AM
But this thread has drifted quite a bit off a topic really relevant to this message board.
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: December 02, 2006 02:44AM
Fair enough. I'm happy not to post on this thread anymore.
Numerous people have continued to raise points which have been refuted whilst preaching the views of James Randi and I was told that this was not preaching and no one was trying to convert me on the 'Lizard Food' thread. I think that the concept of a skeptics cult might actually gain some ground in future.
Numerous people have continued to raise points which have been refuted whilst preaching the views of James Randi and I was told that this was not preaching and no one was trying to convert me on the 'Lizard Food' thread. I think that the concept of a skeptics cult might actually gain some ground in future.
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 02, 2006 02:53AM
This "alternativescience" website is amusing and yet disturbing.
This is the best they have?
[www.alternativescience.com]
Some guy is pretending he lives without food. The "test" is to lock him up in a room for a "week or two"? That is completely ridiculous. People hunger strike for long periods of time, look at Gandhi.
I say lock him up for 6 months without food. But of course Randi can't agree to idiocy like that, as a person could die, and some people are crazy enough to starve themselves to death.
What he mentions about the Randi Challenge is not accurate. Like I have said 10x, come up with a claim, and we'll try it out.
Of course Randi has to put in safeguards, do you have any idea how many frauds, cons and cheats there are out there doing this stuff?
THOUSANDS.
Its like what Johnny Carson did to Uri Geller.
Richard Milton is just angry at Randi at others as they have exposed his nutty antiscience.
Review of Richard Milton: The Facts of Life: Shattering the myth of Darwinism. Published in New Statesman, (London), 28th August 1992.
[www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk]
This is the best they have?
[www.alternativescience.com]
Some guy is pretending he lives without food. The "test" is to lock him up in a room for a "week or two"? That is completely ridiculous. People hunger strike for long periods of time, look at Gandhi.
I say lock him up for 6 months without food. But of course Randi can't agree to idiocy like that, as a person could die, and some people are crazy enough to starve themselves to death.
What he mentions about the Randi Challenge is not accurate. Like I have said 10x, come up with a claim, and we'll try it out.
Of course Randi has to put in safeguards, do you have any idea how many frauds, cons and cheats there are out there doing this stuff?
THOUSANDS.
Its like what Johnny Carson did to Uri Geller.
Richard Milton is just angry at Randi at others as they have exposed his nutty antiscience.
http://skepdic.com/refuge/altscience.htmlQuote
The Alternative Science Pages of Richard Milton
Richard Milton's defense of "alternative" science provides examples of nearly every logical fallacy and psychological foible that hinder us from being fair and accurate in our assessment of scientific and paranormal claims.
Review of Richard Milton: The Facts of Life: Shattering the myth of Darwinism. Published in New Statesman, (London), 28th August 1992.
[www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk]
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
kath
()
Date: December 02, 2006 03:03AM
Quote
cultreporter
I would have been most interested in your opinions on what I had to write about magnesium as being both a supplement [i:afd49f874f][b:afd49f874f]and[/b:afd49f874f][/i:afd49f874f] a prescription medicine. Do you supposse that the fact that I buy it from a health food store with Nature's Own rather than Alpha-Pharm stamped on the bottle that it must be less effective and/or dangerous?
It's proven beneficial for some uses (which the medical profession use it for) but not proven for others. I don't think I've said these supplements are often damaging- more often they just don't do anything so you're wasting your money. And 'Big Alta' is taking that money gleefully.
Fibro is a psychosomatic condition whose sufferers also have a high incidence of PTSD [www.immunesupport.com]
[www.nlm.nih.gov]
In mild cases, symptoms may go away when stress is decreased or lifestyle changes are implemented. A combination of treatments including medications, patient education, physical therapy, and counseling are usually recommended. Many fibromyalgia sufferers have found support groups helpful.
Certain classes of antidepressant medications are sometimes prescribed for the disorder.
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: December 02, 2006 03:29AM
I said I wasn't going to post here anymore but that is the most ignorant comment that I have ever heard so I will make this the last.
I am not about to take a couple of internet links when there are thousands on fibromyaliga and over the treating medical professionals that I have consulted over the past ten years. I [u:a084be23a1][i:a084be23a1][b:a084be23a1]knew[/b:a084be23a1][/i:a084be23a1][/u:a084be23a1] one of the skeptics brigade would weigh in to challenge the diagnosis.
:?: If the mind is so strong as to make me physically ill why don't I magic myself into a size 8 Britney Spears clone :?: Why would people magic up bad things for themselves. It doesn't make any sense now does it? If my mental powers are so strong - hell I didn't even realise this then how about I go visit Uncle Randi and prove to him that I can make myself sick with the power of my mind? That's a pretty impressive feat.
[i:a084be23a1]Fine[/i:a084be23a1]
I am not about to take a couple of internet links when there are thousands on fibromyaliga and over the treating medical professionals that I have consulted over the past ten years. I [u:a084be23a1][i:a084be23a1][b:a084be23a1]knew[/b:a084be23a1][/i:a084be23a1][/u:a084be23a1] one of the skeptics brigade would weigh in to challenge the diagnosis.
:?: If the mind is so strong as to make me physically ill why don't I magic myself into a size 8 Britney Spears clone :?: Why would people magic up bad things for themselves. It doesn't make any sense now does it? If my mental powers are so strong - hell I didn't even realise this then how about I go visit Uncle Randi and prove to him that I can make myself sick with the power of my mind? That's a pretty impressive feat.
[i:a084be23a1]Fine[/i:a084be23a1]
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: December 02, 2006 03:34AM
cultreporter:
I have been around a long time, more than 20 years, and there is no "skeptics cult."
You can't get skeptics to agree enough to establish such a thing and they would be skeptical of any leader that tried to so organize them.
What there is, is genuine skepticism, largely about supernatural claims that cannot be proven. And there is no dogma behind it.
If someone wants to believe in a supernatural claim that cannot be proven that's OK.
For example, I believe in God, which is supernatural claim that cannot be proven by science etc.
But if the supernatural claim becomes the basis for making demands upon others, jeapordizing someone's safety, etc. it may become a legitimate concern and something to question, and this may lead to further examination/investigation.
For example, if my rabbi began making claims about how God had told him that I should surrender all my assets to his family or the synagogue building fund, this would reasonably be a supernatual claim to question.
Or if a guru claims because he is the one and only true guru, devotees should submit to him sexually, work for free etc. etc.
Or the claim that an alternative health treatment can take care of diabetes and therefore people no longer need their insulin.
Fair enough?
It seems to me that Randi and Barrett essentially examine and/or investigate claims on this basis.
They don't spend time on relatively meaningless claims that don't support a demand or action that might potentially hurt people or be unsafe, such as Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy.
I have been around a long time, more than 20 years, and there is no "skeptics cult."
You can't get skeptics to agree enough to establish such a thing and they would be skeptical of any leader that tried to so organize them.
What there is, is genuine skepticism, largely about supernatural claims that cannot be proven. And there is no dogma behind it.
If someone wants to believe in a supernatural claim that cannot be proven that's OK.
For example, I believe in God, which is supernatural claim that cannot be proven by science etc.
But if the supernatural claim becomes the basis for making demands upon others, jeapordizing someone's safety, etc. it may become a legitimate concern and something to question, and this may lead to further examination/investigation.
For example, if my rabbi began making claims about how God had told him that I should surrender all my assets to his family or the synagogue building fund, this would reasonably be a supernatual claim to question.
Or if a guru claims because he is the one and only true guru, devotees should submit to him sexually, work for free etc. etc.
Or the claim that an alternative health treatment can take care of diabetes and therefore people no longer need their insulin.
Fair enough?
It seems to me that Randi and Barrett essentially examine and/or investigate claims on this basis.
They don't spend time on relatively meaningless claims that don't support a demand or action that might potentially hurt people or be unsafe, such as Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy.
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
kath
()
Date: December 02, 2006 03:39AM
Quote
rrmoderator
You can't get skeptics to agree enough to establish such a thing and they would be skeptical of any leader that tried to so organize them./quote]
LOL :D True :)
Sorry if any of my posts have been a bit 'much'- I don't seem to be able to edit my post anymore? But that means I will say more things wrong lol :shock:
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: December 02, 2006 03:46AM
Kath:
It is no longer possible for members to delete or edit posts.
Let me explain.
We have had a problem with some members coming back and changing a thread by deleting posts and/or editing them after some time has passed.
Recently, a member came back to a Mankind Project thread and deleted many posts that had been up for more than a year. This really changed the flow of that thread, as you can imagine.
So this change in avaiable functions was made.
But members can still use the "Preview" function to look over a post before clicking on "Submit."
If it is a complex or long post a member might do it first off-line and then cut and paste it into place at the message board.
It is no longer possible for members to delete or edit posts.
Let me explain.
We have had a problem with some members coming back and changing a thread by deleting posts and/or editing them after some time has passed.
Recently, a member came back to a Mankind Project thread and deleted many posts that had been up for more than a year. This really changed the flow of that thread, as you can imagine.
So this change in avaiable functions was made.
But members can still use the "Preview" function to look over a post before clicking on "Submit."
If it is a complex or long post a member might do it first off-line and then cut and paste it into place at the message board.
James Randi : A Skeptics Guide
Posted by:
kath
()
Date: December 02, 2006 03:52AM
Quote
cultreporter
hell I didn't even realise this then how about I go visit Uncle Randi and prove to him that I can make myself sick with the power of my mind? That's a pretty impressive feat.
I don't think that he would deny that. No I don't think you are consciously magicing/making yourself ill- illness is a terrible thing and I'm not denying your diagnosis or anything at all.
You'd probably get better results if you use a real treatment proven by science to do something, is all.
I hate to see people living with illnesses for years longer than they need to, which they would probably get over more quickly if they took a real med than a sugar pill or other placebo with no real effect.
It's their choice tho I suppose.
Personally I would have them all sectioned for a bit, and forced to take real medication, eat a proper diet of food with enough calories in it rather than living on light and lettuce, and stuff like that :D Maybe when I achieve world domination :)
But until then people can waste their money and languish in crippled health by not accepting real treatment. I care too much is my problem maybe lol :D
Best wishes to you CR,
Love
Kath
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