I have a friend, who I loved dearly. Our relationship, which was primarily on line because of distance, was a once in a lifetime thing. Regular meetings only enhanced the depth of our love. However about 10 months ago, she invited me to join her in a chat room her friend used. I wasn’t sure what to expect, not been given any notice about it, but was bemused to find myself in a BDSM chat room. Now I thought this was highly amusing, especially the names of the group, master this slave that. I tried to make a joke about this, but this was met by total horror and silence by the users & my friend. I asked why she went in the room, and she told me that she wasn’t pestered so much by men online. Over the last 10 months our relationship has deteriorated, and a couple of months ago she finished with me to go with a man she had met in the room. In the depths of my despair, I investigated and found that this man was into BDSM practice, and told her. She denied vehemently that he was into BDSM at all, although her friend who introduced her to the room has told me he is 'but not heavy'. I have been secretly going into this room to find answers, and I have seen her admit to what she will not admit to me. I have to say that the language is disturbing to say the least. There are bizarre rituals for greeting people entering the room, as well as forming relationships, this apart from some of the more disconcerting chat which goes on. I know I am wrong to be spying on people like this, but i also know that my friend was not into anything like this before she entered the room. I can’t help feeling she has somehow been brainwashed into thinking the same way that they do, because at the moment she doesn’t spend time online anywhere else. She has told me that she was put under pressure by her 'friends' in the room to end our relationship.
My question is can a cult be based on a group who all have the same attitudes to a certain goal, rather then a charismatic leader? Is this a new thing which we may see on the net, where a group see someone who isn’t part of there circle & entice them into it?
I have searched the net for dangers of BDSM, and have only come up with apologists for it. Am I wrong to think that this 'practice' is dangerous?

cult like behavior in relation to a cause, or a shared activity -- you do not necessarily need a leader. Though in your friend's case, whoever is 'orchestrating' the activity (eg functioning as 'master') could be functioning in a sort of guru role.

Moderators of discussion boards have been known to become manipulative and dictatorial. This tends to happen to people who dont have much of a career or social life apart from being moderator of the board. In the absence of social controls, even nice normal people can begin spiralling off on power trips--especially people who get hooked on computers and dont get out enough. The key thing that turns gurus insane is that they dont encounter normal every day limits and frustrations.

A formerly useful discussion group or forum can take on a bias and start 'shouting down' any participant who challenges this 'group think.' And social psychologists have demonstrated that in groups or when they are anonymous, individuals will engage in more extreme behavior than when they are aware of being observed. All this can indeed put a computer group or chat room at risk of a cultoid shift

There are also forms of crazy making behavior in which someone behaves as a guru, is deferred to as a guru, is as influential as a guru, but both that person and his or her devotees DENY the person is a guru. Jiddu Krishnamurti claimed to teach a pathless path, declared he was not a guru, yet he was deferred to as a guru, supported in affluent comfort as a guru, etc.

Amy Wallace, in her new book 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda' was a member of a covert group that centered on Castaneda. They all denied they were were a group! But they were.

Problem is, when a guru denies he or she is a guru, when a group denies it is a group, you have all the classic abuses of power, with no conscious vocabulary or rules of accounability. If no one openly admits to being powerful or influential, there's no easy way to call the person on his or her abuses of power. If a group denies it is a group, no one can easily speak up and say, 'What direction as a group are we heading in?'

If your friend is isolating herself and dedicating the majority of her attention and energy to this chat room, and getting involved with someone who is into BDSM and denies this, its dangerous.

I am not involved in BDSM, but have had discussions with live human beings who are. The essence of true BDSM is that the participants are fully conscious and adult about what they wish to do, whom they wish to 'play' with, and before they engage in scenarios, they ALWAYS discuss expectations and negotiate limits.

Genuine BDSM is more than playing with pain and power and restraint. It is about being passionate, erotic AND conscious. Most of us are taught that the only way to be passionate and erotic is to reject adult conscious awareness and sleep walk our way through sexual encounters. But in BDSM, you have to remain conscious and aware or you will get in trouble--or harm someone else.

(Again, I do not practice BDSM, but am fascinated that BDSM people have found ways to combine eroticism with full conscious awareness and the willingess to remain aware of safety and limits while in the throes of passion.)

Problem is that in BDSM as anywhere else, there are unethical or just plain foolish people along with the decent and responsible ones. So you have to know how to tell which is which and know how to set limits.

Limits are established in a number of ways that ensure accountability:

First you participate in social settings and groups which practice BDSM. (bars, classes, discussion groups and social service projects)

You learn who the oldest and most respected people are. If you are a novice you must find mentors who teach you the manners and safety procedures and who are known to be reliable people.

You learn to become conscious of your needs, desires and limits.

You are clear in communicating what you are looking for, and not looking for.

You get to know people before you engage in scenes with them.

Finally, you negotiate code words that you will utter if you're in more pain than you can handle and want the person to stop.

From your description, it sounds as though your friend is getting involved with BDSM that is in a context that is potentially hazardous because that context does not foster adult conscious awareness.

If that moderator were honorable and knowlegable, he would tell her 'You need to admit that you are interested in this and want to go further. And you need to learn how to protect yourself and find live human beings who will teach you, in person how all this is done. First you need to go to meetings and classes, and do a LOT of reading. Meeting someone off the Internet, sight unseen is just too dangerous.'

It could be that your friend had an interest in BDSM and only recently activated that interest. People do that. In heterosexual society, an interest in BDSM is usually frowned on, so people get secretive about it.

I dont think your friend's interest in the subject is the problem, its whether she knows how to protect herself and is getting advice from reputable practitioners. If you expressed concern for her safety, maybe that would go over better.

I dont know if you are up for this but you might consider going to [www.sfweekly.com] and posting your query to Dan Savage, who writes the 'Savage Love' sex advice column. Dan could refer your question to someone who is knowlegeable about BDSM--he gets a lot of mail so I cant 100% guarantee you will get a response, but your query is very interesting and may well get his attention.

Dan's advice is somewhat 'In your face' but is rooted in solid common sense.

Good luck to you and your friend.

It's against the law to beat someone, even if they ask you to do it. This is ESPECIALLY true across genders.

BDSM is generally a sign of some rather intense emotional issues and there is always someone willing to take advantage of that.

if consensual between adults, BDSM is not against the law in some areas.

As for psychological hangups, the people who do BDSM responsibly tend to be far more conscious about their motivations than the average person--just as you have to be far more alert when driving an automobile than being a pedestrian--the risks are greater, so your obligation to be responsible is greater. Key concern is whether this person is involved with responsible BDSM people or not. Its easier to assess integrity of character in person than over the internet.

Im not into BDSM myself, but am more concerned that this person's friend is restricting her social life, possibly getting obsessed.

Its possible to do BDSM and not become obsessed or socially isolated. Its the breakdown in rapport and communcation with this lady and her friend that seems to be the issue.

I am conscious that my hurt may be clouding my judgement about what has transpired in my story at the top of the page; however I find it impossible to justify the use of abuse in relationships of any kind even if it is ‘consensual’. What is it that disturbs us about cults? I would contend that it is exactly what I am describing here. The use of abuse as a tool to control people. Whether that be physical, emotional, sexual abuse or mind control techniques. Why would we say that it is wrong to do such things in a religious setting, but that it is ok in a ‘club’ setting? I say again my friend was not into anything like this before she entered this room. She was put under pressure to finish with me by members of the room. She has lied to me about what her new relationship is about. And she spends almost all her spare time in this room. There are bizarre rituals for greeting members entering the room, and even more bizarre rituals for forming relationships. These I feel are all cult like activities.
My friend has now been ordered by her master not to communicate with anyone else except by chatting in the room. She has also been ordered not to communicate with me at all. Wouldn’t we all be very disturbed if this happened to someone we knew in a religious setting?
My major concern was that there was some kind of cult like activity at work here. I have my suspicions, but I am sure my friend would deny it. Corboy’s original answer has shown that this type of cult isn’t unknown. Maybe I am just hurting because she doesn’t love me anymore, but I do have strong suspicions that she has been coerced into taking part in the activities of this room. It could be just peer pressure, but I feel that there is something more dangerous at work here. Add the obvious signs that abuse is the creed of this group, than I think my natural reaction of distaste at this practice, as well as concern for the well being of my friend, is fully justified.

I dont think the BDSM is the problem--it is that this group and its moderator sound highly controlling & your friend is being given orders to limit her social interactions, both in and out of cyberspace. The group process seems cultic.

Most of us are spooked by stuff like BDSM, which makes it diffcult to separate the content of the group from the group process itself. To use a sports analogy: there is an honest way to play pool and many dishonest ways to play pool.

Its one thing if a group concentrates on a game, and everyone agrees it is JUST a game, only to be played within that group,and that your outside life and friendships remain your own. It is possible to engage in BDSM in this way, and most of its practitioners do.

But when a group does not confine the game to strict guidlines, and encroaches on your private life, starts telling you to lie to people outside the group, cut yourself off from friends outside the group, and finally if the group is monopolizing your attention and energy to the detriment of your other friendships, interests and commitments--thats dysfunctional.

the group can be dedicated to needlepoint, tennis, Christianity, coin collecting, BDSM, magic, politics, whatever. If an in-group/out-group dynamic sets in, and members are pressured to shrink their social lives, sacrifice their outside friendships and interests to the group, lie about the group to non-members, and submit to someone else's control--thats a dysfunctional group that could well be exhibiting a cultic shift.

It is not belief system that makes a group dysfunctional. Its the way the group behaves--its process--that determines whether the group is dysfunctional. Your friend's group sounds dysfunctional and would be dysfunctional if it were dedicated to quilting or poker playing, not just BDSM