Hi All:

In an effort to actually use my brain this Fall, I've enrolled in the above school. I do try not to think EVERYTHING is a cult......but just in case, does anyone know anything about this place?

Cheers,
Acacias

[www.freedomofmind.com]

They started in London, as a spin off from an Ouspensky study group. The London group is called School of Economic Science.

They have advertisements for philosophy classes, but what is covertly taught is derived from bogus Gurdjieff and Ouspensky material.

You can be involved for years and get sucked in gradually before you really know what is going on.

Strict old fashioned dress code. The guys wear suits, and women have to wear skirts--very big on proper gender roles.

They have a school for children in New York that apparently has a good reputation, and in both the US and UK, they market themselves to the upper classes.

Someone in the UK wrote a book, The Secret Cult about this group.

Do a search both on Google and the Google groups and you'll find plenty more.

Corboy:

I can't thank you enough. I try and research things as much as I possibly can...especially in regards to things concerning anything cult-like, as I've fallen prey before and now and am now concentrating on helping others out! It seems as if I didn't pay myself enough mind, in trying to revamp my brain cells I almost got caught again. Anyway, I think that trying to get a refund from these people will prove near impossible, so I think I will go, forewarned thanks to you, and if you and anyone else out here on the board are interested, I'll post what I find out.

Again, a big 'cheers' for your post, Acacias:)

Hi Corboy:

I posted a thank you response to you last night, but it's disappeared. I wanted to thank you for the information. One would think with how much I study these things, I would have researched this more before I enrolled! Oh boy. Anyway, I think I'm going to go anyway, being forewarned as I am as it is bound to be interesting to see just how they skirt the 'socratic philosophy' issue and get into the Guardjeff/Ouspensky/TM aspect. If you or anyone else is interested in how it goes, I'll be happy to post.

Thanks again,
Cheers,
Acacias:)

and have such an air of old fashioned legitimacy, that its hard to clue in that something is going on.

The other thing that makes this a tough one to spot is that they apparently started off from a study group once led by Ouspensky, who had studied with Gurdjieff and then broke with him. Until Gurdjieff began publishing his own books, the only written material available for persons interested in 'The Fourth Way' were Ouspensky's books. Ouspensky was also a lucid, logical writer, whereas Gurdjeiff is fiendishly difficult to read. So a lot of people are fascinating with G, but bypass him, sticking with O's work.

After Ouspensky died, his group members went in different directions and one of the splinter groups became the cult you mentioned. This process of turning wierd, secretive, elitist and cultic has plagued Gurdjieff work. They claim the secrecy is necessary, but all it does is create an unhealthy climate that attracts a very toxic mixture of crooks and persons who thrill to intrigue--and others who take it all at face value and dont realize they are not being told the whole story.

Problem with the Fourth Way originates from Gurdjieff himself--he claimed people were so stubborn and tranced out that teaching the truth directly would only make them more resistant--that the only way to really help people wake up was to teach them the truth indirectly--by lying to them, if necessary.

This is used to justify not telling new students the whole truth about the group's agenda -- 'You are not READY to understand the real teaching.' It turns into an excuse to lie and cheat--and it makes informed consent impossible. Its also a demeaning, manipulative and condescending attitude towards other people.

If you are not required to remain at that school, I really suggest asking whether another place would not be safer and more beneficial for you to study. Because you're not getting a true academic environment at that place--its all to serve a hidden agenda that aggrandizes the group



All I can say is Google everything, and that means both Google itself and the Google listserves--stuff often shows up in group discussions that is not available on a main Google search.

Since you're in NYC, you could post something on [www.craigslist.org] (New York) in the Community Discussions section.

Tell em 'I am recovering from cult involvement. I am working on my own education, decided to take a class in philosophy. This school looked legit. Then I happened to ask about it offhandedly on [www.culteducation.com] and someone found THIS stuff doing a Google search

Something like that.

Tell people what you've found on Google. Dont make editorial comments. Just say 'You might want to do further research before getting socially and emotionally involved. Take a look at this.'

Its the one where I quoted material on the SPP from that Google group citation.

Good luck. I'd recommend that if you attend that SPP class, note the emotional and the intellectual atmosphere. Agenda driven groups are usually tense--they're on the defensive, not telling you the full truth.

A true philosophy class and teacher should convey an atmosphere of rigorous but ultimately free inquiry. True philosophical inquiry is really a very high form of play.

The first thing lost in any cult is playfulness.

Hi Corboy,

Thanks so much for all your information. I have decided not to go to to the course, I shall spend the money on some pilates instead...much less insidious...yes?

Also, I'm going to take your advice re: posting on craigslist.com to let other people know about the School.

Cheers :)
Acacias

Pilates is great. In fact, you'll not only get a pleasant mood boost and a nicely chiseled midsection---you may even discover that your BM's become more regular!

All verifiable, no need to take someone else's word for it.

Go girl.