I have recently exited a cult/ LGAT that I was a member of for 5 yrs. Part of the training in this group is refered to as quantal / higher demensional healing. This involves training one to percieve more fully through the primary and secondary visual cotrex. Primary is described as concentrated focus or mental body. Secondary is described as soft focus or expanded perceptual states. From the secondary state we were led through various hypnotic trances meant to elicit higher and higher demensions, up to 11. These were described in detail through different anotomical brain patternings. we were taught to use this in hands on healing sessions as a way to access the energetic patterning of the individual. It's all such a mind f--k I can't tell you the extent of it. I am just beginning to decipher the manipulation I have experienced currently it feels rather overwhelming. I appreciate the info on the site, makes me aware of the vastness of the problem.

Hi,

Can you identify any specific hypnotic method used by your LGAT/cult group? Can you elaborate more on primary and secondary visual cortex and how that affected you mentally and physically?

Here is a link to The Art of Hypnosis to help you identify.

[www.story-board.co.uk]

Read it carefully as you may be hypnotized again. To prevent so, I recommend you read from the last chapter first.

It is interesting how one can link The Art of Opportunity, War, Management, Possibility, Hypnosis... I wonder what "Art" really means.

Last, be aware of posthypnotic suggestions.

Hsuchi

Hi,
The visual cortex was described to us as a donut shape at the back of the skull, the inside hole is the primary cortex, focused concentration. The outside of the hole (the donut itself) is the secondary cortex, soft focus, higher perceptual awareness. We spent significant amounts of time praticing going between the two and telling them apart on ourselves and other people thru touch awareness and internal perception. We were led in what is known as floor processes involving movement suggestion and different suggestions. Mostly beginning with the instruction close your eyes , go inside etc.. etc.. It could be anything from begin a small movement with your right big toe that gets you closer to what you want to something more direct like what movement can you make that gives you more permission to be alive. These are just examples off the top of my head that seem extremely out of context when I've not been led thru a pre hypnotic induction. It was very clever and extremely manipulative. It took me quite awhile to realize the inconsistancies and subversive stuff going on.
L

Thx for the info. I also attended a LGAT class and was hypnotized consistently for five days.

I am trying to find out whether I suffered memory lost and also trying to determine what kind of new information was implemented through the trance exercise.

As I begin to read some of the articles I wrote during and immediately after the LGAT course, I have seen a pattern of forgiveness and bitterness coexisted at the same time. I forgave people who I thought wrong me before but I was bitter about my own parents. Those writings are in two extremes.

Recently I saw a medical report describes how implicit memory can be affected after hypnotic exercise. The article can be looked up in “International Journal of Psychology and Psychological Therapy” which it compares implicit/explicit memory blocks of trance patients with brain injury patients. To its conclusion, trance patients have suffered implicit memory lost not found in brain injury ones.

I suspect that explicit and implicit memories described in medical circle confirmed your descriptions about your experience of primary and secondary cortex. I am not a doctor but the document has convinced me that trance should be exercised with caution. I hope the best for your recovery.

Hsuchi

Yeah, unfortunately that sounds all too familiar. The "parental model" and the paradox of life was frequently used in hypnotic suggestion. This particular group practices "brain mapping" education accessing thru touch and intention: cadates, amygdala, temporal lobes, parietal lobes, visual cortex, hypothalamus, etc..... Oh yeah! and to explain the MF "confusion is your friend" that means your changing a pattern that doesn't serve you. What a load of crap. I'm so angry at the lack of integrety towards the human spirit and all that includes.

Lucretia

A new thread was added in July 2008 discussing the implications if a guru claiming to teach an authentic and ancient Hindu practice path covertly utilized modern, American technicques ('tech') derived from Large Group Awareness Trainings/LGATs) such as EST aka Erhard Seminars Training.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Those interested in Hindu or other Asia cults that harmed them make commendable efforts to trace how their group or guru actually deviated from the true tradition and taught a corrupted version. But most who pursue this stick with India and Sanskrit texts.

While they often learn a lot that is useful, a lingering influence from the group may still be felt. Yet others go on and with great courage and honesty examine their own early histories, which often can include trauma, family abuse, codependency, which were r-enacted and exploited by their guru or group.

But few involved with the Hindu or other Asian groups ever investigated LGATs and whether their gurus covertly borrowed techniques from the modern US spiritual supermarket.

In one group it appears this may well have occurred. The thread gives material that may be a new and useful recovery resource--lingering impact if one's guru secretly employed consultants expert in LGAT tech or neuro-linguistic programming.

However, it is interesting that some gurus are more up front about their LGAT connections.

Earlier in this thread a guru was mentioned. Guru Rishi Prabhakar, promoter of Siddha Samadhi Yoga (SSY)

He is candid that he studied with both Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (TM) and--did Werner Erhard's EST.

But it may be that in India MMY and Werner's names dont ring the warning bells..and can be mentioned. American spiritual entrepreneurs are more likely to hide or at least soft pedal any earlier experiences they had with certain LGATs.

[www.lifepositive.com]

"But evolving the SSY course took some more time and inspiration from varied sources, including Werner Erhard's est."

(quote)THE PROMISE

"Life will soon be experienced by one and all as heaven and ecstasy," says Guru Rishi Prabhakar. He particularly envisages a great future for India. In fact, his spiritual search was guided by his fervent love of the land. "The Siddha Samadhi Yoga (SSY) program came about as a byproduct of my quest to transform India," he says. "We are the only light of the world," he adds and predicts that within six months India wilt make dramatic progress.

Comparing Japan to a kshatriya (the Hindu warrior caste), the USA to a vaishya (the trader) and India to a brahmin (the intellectual), he points out: "We have simply not realized our brahminical powers. "

THE PERSON
A graduate in engineering from the Bangalore University, 48-year-old Rishi Prabhakar has been an aeronautical engineer, computer scientist and management graduate before his transformation. Given his background, he draws deep from the wellsprings of both Indian spirituality and western rationality. As he illustrates complex philosophical concepts with analogies drawn from the world of computers and cricket, he is perhaps more accessible and acceptable to the urban Indian than ochre-robed swamis.

The luxuriously bearded, lungi-clad Prabhakar, whose luminous eyes are the most captivating part of a generally striking face, is quite jovial when speaking in public or while addressing his students.

THE PREPARATION
Though Prabhakar mused on metaphysical matters even as a college student, his quest really began in 1974 when, as a successful computer scientist working in Canada, he learnt Transcendental Meditation (TM) which gave him "a new vision which did not depend on anyone doing anything".

Joining Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, he rose up in the TM movement. While TM emphasizes effortlessness, Prabhakar felt it involved some doing and began to chart his own course. That meant uprooting himself to return to India. Followed intense spiritual practices under the guidance of various teachers, including his master, Sri Visweswaraiah, bringing him to the point of enlightenment.

But evolving the SSY course took some more time and inspiration from varied sources, including Werner Erhard's est.

Prabhakar's mother, C.A. Rama Devi, who shares the limelight with him now, recalls: "Initially the SSY course only had meditation. Gradually pranayama was added. Thereafter Guruji discovered the benefits of raw food and introduced that too. Being a scientist, whenever he hears of something new, he experiments on himself before introducing it in SSY."

SSY literature says that the course's equivalent in the ancient days was Brahmopadesam (a sermon on Brahman), which dramatically altered one's outlook towards life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2008 12:22AM by corboy.

I can now see clearly many concerns and problems with my own yoga/meditation group, which I have posted about a little bit on other threads.

I cannot deny, however that I did personally have vivid physical sensations of 'energy' transfers, as when the Guru would transfer energy in a class. It most certainly felt like a strong, warm 'wave' coming across the room, emanating from the Guru.

I myself transferred 'energy' to people in the past and felt similar 'warm' and tingling sensations.

Some of the students claimed that they had been healed from illness either by the Guru himself or by one of his students, who then led them into the teaching. Other students continued to learn higher classes to obtain 'more energy' even though their illness or disability persisted.

These 'energy' sensations were much stronger when I first began studying. I had a particularly strong experience when I thought that all my 'chakras' were spinning (we were taught the 'technique' to make this happen). I can only describe it as an incredibly pleasant sensation like a warm (and very gentle) electric current running from the top of my head throughout my whole body to my feet. It lasted just a few minutes but was like nothing I ever experienced before or since.

Other students told me that it may have been a 'necessary experience' to increase my faith. Later the feelings were less intense, but I can still experience 'energy sensations' when I apply the technique.

I have no idea if these sensations were inducted by some form of hypnosis or trance. Or if were they real experiences of 'energy' as the Guru claimed.

I now remember that I may have been exposed to hallucinogens by the person who introduced me to the school. I don't know if that created some kind of glitch in my nervous system that caused me to have such intense experiences.

When that person and some other friends left the school I remember that I kept a photo of the Guru on my wall. I would look at the photo a lot. I would even 'talk' or 'pray' to the photo asking for the Truth about why my friends left. I would also ask for an increase of faith and strength to continue on the 'spiritual path' !!!

All the students had little photos of the Guru that they carried around with them for 'protection and guidance'.

However they occurred, the physical sensations of energy were partially what caused me to believe and continue with the teaching. If these kind of sensations were also experienced by Siddha Yoga practitioners I can really understand the conflict they might have as to what was real and what was false about the teaching.

They are very convincing experiences.

Dear Solea, those experiences were indeed reported/experienced by many in Siddha Yoga. This came up again and yet again on these two blogs, and on the many ex-SY discussion venues.

[www.the-guru-looked-good.blogspot.com]

and

[www.ritualsofdisenchantment.blogspot.com]

It was precisely the overwhelming nature of these experiences, something for which mainstream culture could give no assistance, that led so many people to put thier trust in Siddha Yoga.

It has added a great deal to their anguish when, on thier own discussion boards, others pop up and insist that these experiences were merely produced from within by one's own craving mind.

The persons in Siddha who had those experiences later had to decide
whether the lack of kindness, basic human decency on the part of the gurus, and the exploitation, sexual, emotional and financial, of devotees
could justify such experiences.

Many decided the answer was no.

Others, as passionately, clung to the experiences and refused to concern themselves with the harm done to their fellow seekers, insisting 'it was not my experience', and untroubled by thier own callousness.

It appears that these experiences can be induced by people who have no special spiritual attainment at all, even by persons who are mad, bad and quite dangerous to know.

A man who corresponded on the old AOL ex SY discussion thread wrote this interesting statement as part of a 3 or 4 part post.

"Fortunately my own meditation experience has allowed me to be
able to tell the difference between my own inner emotional and
spiritual states, and those coming from outside.

What ever happened to me at SYDA, I distinctly and clearly
experienced as coming from the outside! I swear I could tell the
difference.''

(This BTW is a very important skill to culitivate--whether an experience feels in synch with your own 'juices' or if it feels alien to you.

A health care provider was discussing sleep medication with me and said one patient tried a particular drug and asked to be taken off of it. The drug induced massive, vivid dreams for this fellow. The dreams were quite fascinating, but they felt intrusive and alien to this man and he preferred to be without them.)

Part One

[www.ex-cult.org]

Subj: SYDA & Mind Control Technology I
Date: 95-08-22 17:12:16 EDT
From: TGPARKER

Part One of a 3 part Note:
SYDA & Mind Control Technology? I
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ever since I barely escaped getting "hooked" by the SYDA GURU
GOONS, I still have felt the need to ask alot of questions from
Ex-SYDA members to get a clearer picture of what went on with all
these people, as well as what it was that was done to me.

I am also intersted in hearing about any "recovery actions" that
have been taken since leaving SYDA. If anything I'd like to be
able to pass some E.S. & H. to other Cult-Abuse victims when and
if they ask for it.

I agree that the GURU GANG relies very heavily on emotional &
pyschological manipulation, personality-cult dynamics, and the
usual "Jail-House Cons", "Street Scams", "carnival tricks" and
street-corner "three-card-monte" routines, like "bait & switch"
etc.. with acomplete cast of SHILLS, ACCOMPLICES, FRONTS,
& JUDAS-GOATS"!

BUT I'm still more inclined to look more deeply into "externally
induced" hypnotics, sub-liminal technologies, and other external
agents, as the source of the Guru Gang's initial power.

I think that I've been stimulant-free long enough (15 Years) to
really tell when something has been "administered" to me. My
meditation experience is such that I can also make the
distinctions between the types of spiritual experiences like
"UNION" or "JOINING"and PHYSICAL EGO-BASED "SENSATIONS" like
"joy", "euphoria", & "bliss" that I've also experienced here-to-
fore.

Fortunately my own meditation experience has allowed me to be
able to tell the difference between my own inner emotional and
spiritual states, and those coming from outside.

What ever happened to me at SYDA, I distinctly and clearly
experienced as coming from the outside! I swear I could tell the
difference!

If I were put on the witness stand today, I would say on oath
that I had been "physically" affected in some by some kind of
external undetermined technological agent, and NOT A SPIRITUAL
STATE INDUCED BY THE GRACE OF GOD DESCENDING OR BEING
AWAKENED IN ME THROUGH A GHURU.

Part Two

(quoted from the same source as above)
Subj: SYDA & MIND CONTROL TECH. II
Date: 95-08-22 17:35:01 EDT
From: TGPARKER

-----------------------------------------------------------------
SYDA & Mind Control Technology II
Second Part of a 3 Part Note
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The spiritual Mastery, & Mystical Powers necessary to affect
others in the manner we're discussing could ONLY be
attributed to a true AVATAR, a real Adept & Master!

Even based on the shallow biographies of all members of the Guru
Gang, provided by Liz Harris' article. None of them including
Muktananda, underwent the rigorous life-long spiritual
commitments, deprivations, sacrifices, and seclusions practiced
by the true Masters, and genuine Spiritual Adepts. They may have
picked-up some Fakhir's rope climbing and Bombay Marketplace
Illusionist's tricks, board-walk carnie routines, circus tent
acts, some basic jail-house cons, street scams, and even some
basic meditation techniques which they could have picked-up from
almost any temple in India. It is very clear that they never
really made the rigorous spiritual and moral progress necessary
to attain the powers they claim they had.

If we accept that these are imperfect, evil, even, criminal
people, then how could the "GRACE OF GOD" DESCEND TO YOU THROUGH
SUCH IMPERFECT CHANNELS?

Either the grace of god is attainable & available anywhere &
everywhere, and you really don't need anyone to give it to you.
Especially priests and Ghurus!

(Gee didn't a Hebrew Adept and Master called Jasua Ben Josef say
that almost 2000 years ago getting himself executed in a really
painful way?)

OR

You were experiencing something else and were TOLD it was "God's
grace decending through the Guru".

GEE WIZ! THEY LIED!

If you had never experienced electricity, and if I touched you
with a cattle prod that gave you a distinct electrical shock,
and then told you it was:

"The Grace of God Decending being awakened in you through me your
Wise and Spiritual Ghuru Tony Bannannanda the 15th re-incarnation
of the Llama of Raj Dapurghj!"

Under the right circumstances you would believe me! With the
right Special effects, sound effects, lighting, chants, Peer
Pressure, Pyschological manipulation, etc....you would believe
and do anything else I told you too!

I suspect that's always what's been going on at SYDA from day
one!

THE SIMPLE EVIDENCE OF THEIR DAILY ACTIONS AND "PRIVATE"
BEHAVIOUR BELIES THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANY ONE OF THE GURU GANG
EVEN CAME CLOSE TO ANYTHING APPROACHING ENLIGHTNMENT, TO INFER
THAT ANY OF THEM, EVEN MUKTANANDA, EVEN CAME CLOSE TO ANY KIND OF
SPIRITUAL MASTERY IS LAUGHABLE!

THEY NEVER HAD NOR ARE EVER LIKELY TO HAVE THE SPIRITUAL POWERS
NECESSARY TO INDUCE THESE EFFECTS WIHOUT THE AID OF TECHNOLOGY!

Spiritual titles are bought and sold in the Far East in almost
the same way Mail order Doctorates of Divinity can be obtained
here.

Though there are a multitude of temples, monastaries, wandering
"MASTERS", and "TEACHERS", throughout India, who is to say
whether any of these "MASTERS'" credentials are real or worthy!

By and large there is no way of knowing whether a Ghuru ever even
studied where and when he/she said he/she did. There is also no
way of ascertaining what a particular Ghuru "mastered" or what
kind or level of "en-lightenment" was actually attained. Most
temples, monastaries, masters, or ghurus, don't hand out
diplomas, or keep transcripts!

What if a master, priest, monk, or devotee, had even been
banished and expelled, from their temple, monastery, or village
for sexual perversions, i.e. molesting children, etc.?

Given the the constant state of civilian and adminstrative chaos
and disorder of INDIA There would be NO RECORD OR WAY OF CHECKING
A GURUS CREDENTAILS ANYWAY!

Part Three - from the old AOL ex SY discussion

Subj: SYDA & Mind Control Tech. III
Date: 95-08-22 17:43:21 EDT
From: TGPARKER

-----------------------------------------------------------------
SYDA & Mind Control Technology III
The Third part of a Four Part Note.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
My limited understanding of the general traditions of the True
and Great Spiritual Masters and Avatars, is that:

a.) They run very few and far between i.e. they don't re-
incarnate that frequently! Like maybe once every 1600 to 2000
years! They don't keep popping up in the same country all the
time either. They definitely do not run in families!

b.) They shun fame, noteriety, fortune, and any secular power,
because they know that that stuff corrupts & dimishes their
spiritual powers.

c.) They are also very pickey about choosing their initiates, who
they teach and what they teach to their students. They are fully
aware of the consequences of just a little of their knowledge
falling into the wrong hands. Very often the Teacher seeks out
the WORTHY Student!

Since MONEY, POWER, AND PRESTIGE, is NOT a
factor in the tradtional Guru-Student relationship, UNWORTHY
Students, are quickly dismissed! PERIOD!

d.) Most of the time they keep themselves locked up safe and
sound inside their monastaries and temples, so as not to be
corrupted or have their spiritual powers diminished by the
temptations of the outside world.

e.) The duration of the "training program" is life-long, say a
minimum of 12-25 years! If they do emerge at all into the public
secular arena they usually tend to do so rather late in life
usually only for a particular event or a purpose and then to
quickly return back to the safety of their temple or monastery.
The "Child-Prodigy" stuff is a dead give-away.

f.) They tend to avoid the fame and noteriety caused by the
display of miracles, as they consider that it diminishes their
spiritual powers, and that the publicity and noteriety could tend
to corrupt them.

g.) They avoid the use of High-Tech aids like T.V., video, radio,
etc, again because they consider that it diminishes and corrupts
their powers.

h.) They practice complete celibacy. They have no problem with
celibacy & there is none of this crap about the TANTRA. Sexual
temptations are never a problem. Any kind of sexual problem
should be a dead give-away. Period.

i.) The embracing of sexual celibacy and renunciation of worldly
goods, and family ties would pre-clude any nepotism, and family
involvement. Any "family" involvement or nepotism would also be a
dead give-away.

(In terms of its rapacious, and un-ethical, financial & business
management style, and the notorious power struggles over where
the real money is kept and who holds the secret Swiss Bank
Account numbers makes SYDA seem more like a trashey, tacky Bombay
Upwardly mobile Nouveau-Riche Indian "Family Import/Export Business" than a religious order! IS SYDA BOLLYWOOD'S ANSWER TO "DYNASTY!" )

SO LET'S FACE IT - THERE NEVER COULD HAVE BEEN NOR IS THERE EVER LIKELY TO BE ANY ADEPTS, MASTERS, AVATARS, OR DEITIES, AT SYDA!