I have read several books about the Romanov dynasty, and especially the last tsarista's relationship with Rasputin. Have you ever seen his eyes? He controlled many through hypnotism, including Alexis, her invalid son.

i think many people in ashrams need doctors. there states of crazyness are rewarded,but never confronted. like a big disfuctional family. one fellow i knew would not eat. fasting all the time. that in itself can get you high. also along with the fasting he was drinking tons of coffee. which was not permited in this ashram. this guy wanted to take over the whole place. the next guru! i think that is called a messianic complex. i had such a hard time with that. he ended up threatining my father, and family. because i would not bow down to him on any level. the thing with the yoga tradition. if you read the books, they beleave the individual can eventually become a devine person at the last stages of there development. also the beleif in reincarnation. this is a classic setup for a manic depressive. its a shame when they crash. but by that time the damage has been done. i feel very strongly about this. its not all bad but ,you must be very carfull. for my own life now there is somthing about being peacefull and sane and getting my mind back. i want to construct my own life. take your power back man. \

vinman

The bottom line is that in areas like spirituality, religion and gurus, one has to extremely, extremely careful before getting involved in it. The normal defense mechanism's like rationalism, logic etc., goes out the window as one is led step by step into redefining priorities, values, doubts etc., Family is the 'sanga', seeking 'liberation' is the highest priority, "when doubt enters through the front door, faith leaves through the back door". Pretty soon every avenue of getting to a person's reason and logic is closed. They do not realise that they were much better people before they got into the ashram culture, or cult. They take to lying, deceit, and everything else needed to spread the cult's cause. The children are neglected, and the whole outlook is changed.
I am in the midst of this crap right now(spouse) as well as a friend. There are not many therapists well versed in cult behavior and practices. It might be a while before it dawns on them to seek help. Until such time the rest of the family has to cope with bizzare behavior and deal with essentially an unknown person in the house. We see the therapist/psychiatrist to adjust to the new state of things.
Better to be extremly wary of these new age 'gurus', especially from India. Most of them are fringe elements even in India but seem to make a mark for themselves in the West. If they are so eager to spread 'godliness', bliss and liberation to the world why on earth do they not do so say in the middle-east, Iraq, Afganistan etc., where they are needed the most. In the end it is all about money and power.

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If they are so eager to spread 'godliness', bliss and liberation to the world why on earth do they not do so say in the middle-east, Iraq, Afganistan etc., where they are needed the most. In the end it is all about money and power.

Any spiritual movement that is Hindu in origin is outlawed in the vast majority of Middle Eastern countries. Members of ISKCON and Transcendental Meditation have been detained in Iran, for example. Some such members are missing and presumed dead. I don't agree with either TM or ISKCON for your information, but I don't condone this course of action.

I just wanted to clarify that small point. Other than that, I agree with you.

for me the relationship is sick[guru, or teacher] and i hate to use this word but, codependant. and im tired of it. of the abuse and the lies. they may never change. but i have to. the bs on the wall is to clear. i mean it dosen't stand up to reason. so anger really comes up for me and i feel it. its a way to seperate my self. not in a violent way but inside. it feels good to have an opnion. i can hear myself talking and thinking again. im not just walking around with that fake yoga smile on my face. lol. i dont want to be a parasite any longer. i want to be the first cause of my life. those people are users. its like waking up out of a dream. the money i spent, my time invested!:mad: so im starting to move tward an independant life. im just starting to come out of the fog. no more deals. i want to get better

vinman

Be careful of applying the codependent label too quickly. It will add insult to injury.

These people are masters of deception. Going to a spiritual leader or teacher, or a psychologist, clergy, or physician for help, advice, guidance, is not codependent. Hindsight is also 20/20 - and it takes a while to see the lack of integrity. Because you were ripped off, misled, duped and hurt does not mean you are codependent.

take a look at this
[www.healthyplace.com]
vinman

Wordgirl, Leopardgirl and survivors of Gentle Wind may be especially interested!

Go to the most recent posts on the Tantra Fraud thread

This article really stood out. I plan to copy it as a Word document for my home files.

[www.resonateview.org]

This article is excellent, too

[www.resonateview.org]

for myself there is good days and bad days. some days i feel still apart of the group. but latly i have had days where i feel seperated, good, whole, grounded. and well. back into my own skin and moving foward. as for thoses two articals, im in agreement with that person. there are many sharks in the ashrams and centers playing the energy game. praying on innocent people. i cant find a word strong enough to desribe them. the old school of yoga from india is brutal. both violent and sexual and sick. abusing people for there own good is not a way to grow. i dont think. i wonder if the gurus would try extending and protecting the truth. just a thought! its amazing the guru sits at the top and the sanga beats the crap out of each other to get to the top, with the guru always protecting his position which he fought for. people get desparate and they start abusing each other. power plays, using sex to control. just like that lady said in the articals. i never see any growth, just moments of victory. they say its for burning your ego but, it just burns people out. i really have hope to get released. get out of jail.lol it been unbelevable. i hope people continue to share there stories and what has worked for them. its a great help.
vinman

For all the talk from these so called gurus that this ability to manipulate subtle energies in people and induce trance/bliss states is a consequence of "enlightenment", I think this is something that is learned. For instance one of the 'gurus' we used to run with in the past had such a huge audience he started training teachers. It took 5 years to train a teacher. Now the crowds have grown so large that it just takes 1.5 years to train a teacher. Pure profit motive. I think that there would be a good market for these gurus if they also start a movement to "unenlighten" these so called bliss addicts. I am surprised at how little the main stream medical field is aware of these things and how to combat them. At least one should study the long term effects of being in these states and any psychological dammage that can be caused.

Why are not the churches taking a more proactive role in warning their members against these meditation cults? I personally know a number of Christians who are heavy into these cults. Somehow the risks involved with associating with these groups need to be publicized better.