Glam :

Interesting r.e the Strategic Rejection. From what I've read, and corboy's postings above, high demand groups will reject individuals just as they are beginning to think for themselves.. e.g. becoming healthy, and thus a threat to the groupthink conformity. A healthy link is the biggest threat to a dysfunctional controlling chain.

To be rejected as such is incredibly painful, as the person is still emotionally tied to the group and has not made the full emotional separation to being on their own. Such people often do not get into exit counseling/ recovery therapy and are just the walking wounded - often looking for another group to glom onto.

Just the cult-hopping syndrome. Possibly some of the folks on other sites are probably upset at your insuations as to such; it could be personally threatening to admit such within oneself.

Hi Toni:

Yes, it does seem that a good number of those who are rejected (or ejected) from their groups go on to join another, similar group...est years later leads to Landmark, or to Avatar, or to Scientology, or to Sterling...

Perhaps this is a reason people become "'tweeners." They're still upset at being cruelly ejected from an organization to which they gave tremendous amounts of time and effort. Also, because so many of these groups lead their adherents to believe they're ultimately "saving the world" or "creating world peace" -- big, postitive goals -- it must make the rejected person feel truly awful about him/herself, for then they must not be "good enough" to help "save the world."

And it must be really painful to admit that the hurt and love you've held on to for so long and all that time and effort amounted to nothing but being fleeced.

It's the "'tweeners" who are the most vicious about defending their "experience," even while admitting they have problems with some parts of the organization. They can't understand that this thought process is 1) what got them ejected in the first place and 2) the first step to healing....if they'd only take that second step.

Yes, glam, that 2nd step is the hardest. It means looking inside oneself to find out WHY the need for so much external validation. Why the need for a smiling nod of approval from whomever (guru, teacher, psychic, groupthink, etc) to justify one's existence.

How many times I'd heard that the cults' dysfunction "does not come from (name your guru), it comes from the lack of awareness of those volunteers who are doing the work. They have not reached the level of (guru) and so screw it all up. I just wish we could get to (guru) and tell him/her of all that is really happening." But of course, the leader is inaccessible and mystical, and truly orchestrating the dysfunction, so that all the devotees stay off balanced and busy trying to make it all work -- for the benefit of the new recruits!

Yes, when you warn others about 'their cult(s)', they become defensive, or give you the silent treatment, or even reject your friendship and care all together. Much like any addict.

And as in dealing with any addict, in my experience, the caring outsider must simply separate emotionally and go on with life and allow the addict to drown. You cannot save a drowning person if they refuse to grab the rope or life preserver. The cult follower just wants you to jump in and drown with them. Like any addict. ... sigh.... If you are really codependent, like me, you leave a rope for them to grab onto to pull themselves out, if they ever choose to see the rope.

Discussing this phenomenon with a friend, who is a Vietnam veteran, I had said "It's not my job to save him/them. I can only save myself." My friend responded that in the military they were taught the same.

There is a bittersweet rejoicing about reclaiming one's own life and health, when feeling that you've left others to their (psychological, spiritual, emotional) death.

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How many times I'd heard that the cults' dysfunction "does not come from (name your guru), it comes from the lack of awareness of those volunteers who are doing the work. They have not reached the level of (guru) and so screw it all up. I just wish we could get to (guru) and tell him/her of all that is really happening." But of course, the leader is inaccessible and mystical, and truly orchestrating the dysfunction, so that all the devotees stay off balanced and busy trying to make it all work -- for the benefit of the new recruits!

Depending on who the guru is, you just might be able to get to them and tell them what's going on. And in every crazy group out there, they find a nice way of replying "who cares?" That can act as a catalyst to the critical thought process jumpstart.

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And in every crazy group out there, they find a nice way of replying "who cares?"

With Landmark, it's "so what?" (As in, "Oviously the truth is what's so . It's also so what?") Landmark also takes it a step further and tells the complaining masses that they ARE doing something to change. And they do make tiny, insignificant changes -- like they'll only call you back and harass you five times after you've refused to attend the Forum, instead of six times....to keep the attendees"happy." I've read posts from LECers who wax poetical about little things like this as "proof" that Landmark DOES care and DOESN'T harass people....as if calling five times isn't harassment.

:(

Right Dervish,

Or else the leader, or assigned mentor, will tell the 'complainer' that they are too stressed, or not compassionate for other's learning processes, just surrender, trust the process, you're too attached to worldly functionings or the Illusion, when you are detached from 'maya' and more enlightened, these little challenges will not annoy you so.

You can see these challgenges because you are evolving and moving beyond them. Ultimately they are the lessons of those others in the group who are not yet as evolved as you, with your grand vision. Just stay devoted, committed (keep sending your $$ and free labor), be compassionate for those lesser evolved while they learn how to get it together. Thank you for your patience. The closer you come to enlightenment/god/the next level the more you see such annoyances as silly little nuisances. Just don't worry about them and meditate more and more to release your discomfort. Or take the next level of expensive course to help you work through YOUR issues with their discomfort, and help you on your path.

--- may I puke now? ---

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As my friend put it, 'Why is it spiritual to put blinders on, refuse to do fact checking and set yourself up to be burned by a smooth talking psychopath?'

Well, this still is the silliest thing I keep encountering. The New-Agey answer is that if one is meant to be hurt, it is part of that person's journey. Yet, so many people flock to gurus. Oprah shows feature guru-ish older women preaching about what they learned in life, the lessons handed to them, yet for the everyday Joe-Blow who has been burned and wants to warn others, he or she is accused of being closed-minded. So - if anyone wants to ask me after the fact how to deal with the pain, I can direct them here. If I see ads on the community bulletin board that Corboy and I read, then I send people here with just a little "FYI". I keep a standard list of questions to post in reply to announcements for "world-renowned speaker on (fill in the blank) who list vague credentials. If that piques enough interest, they can ask questions.

The first post in this thread brought back old memories...

In the early eighties, my wife left me to join a pseudo-Christian cult in Ohio. I am sure you can figure out who it was. That she left me wasn't totally unexpected and, probably, would have happened anyway. Her joining the cult was completely reasonable, in her view. She needed structure and they provided it.

Every one of her/our friends who I told about the cult she joined turned it around and blamed me. I was always "too controlling", et cetera. And these were people who had never heard of the cult she joined! I, eventually, tried to discuss this with a well know radio talk personality on Christian radio. They, too, said it was my fault - without even knowing anything about the group. This pattern continued, with complete strangers at church coming up and saying I was "too controlling" and I should let her do her own thing. It amazed me, these people had no idea what they were talking about.

Over the next couple of years, I continued to research the group she joined. I went to a couple of meetings. I had no intention of "infiltrating" the group, I was just curious. Then I started writing about the group and sharing my writing with some others - in a university town where the group actively recruited - and gained a certain degree of notariety. One day, I came home to find my front door wide open and my computer room ransacked. All my floppy disks were gone, (this was before floppies). I had some expectation this would happen. I never really thought much about any personal danger to myself - then I heard the group had begun to arm themselves with assault weapons. At that point, I decided it wasn't really worth it to continue...

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corboy
Genuine spirituality includes adult discernment, street smarts, and the willingness to fact check everything and assume nothing.

This web site assumes that mainstream groups are OK and all else, i.e. non-mainstream groups are suspect and disparaged.

Think what it would mean if mainstream groups such as Catholics, Anglicans, Jews, etc. are the actual destructive cults that this site wants to point out. My upbringing as a Catholic, for example, left deep psychological scars due to guilt and repression as practiced by the Pope and his followers. Only after some years of therapy was my brain washed clean of all the garbage laid on it as a youngster by the church and schools. For this I have my guru to thank.

During the 1970's and 80's I was part of an international group that's been highly disparaged by the media and on this web site. As far as I can tell, none of the disparagers ever went to visit the group or meet with members. All I hear are the negatives but none of the positive contributions these groups have had on dedicated members.

If you want to know something, go and experience it. Reading comments by so-called experts denies you of a potentially life transforming experience. Life is risky. I'd rather risk than resign myself to live life as a walking dead person.

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at least do not expect gratitude right away.

Thank you corboy for this article! It explains to me my own behaviour, because I face troubles with Scientologists, only as one, who is not in this church. But I researched already a bit about that cult.

Some months ago I bought an apartment, not knowing that it is a CofS (short for Church of Scientology) company, and the house is ruled and in part inhabited by members of CofS. Since I live here, I (who rejected several "offers" e.g. for jobs or seminars, made to me by the company people) am offended, harassed, disrespected, dishonored, I was frauded of course, but that I could put on my own head - why did I trust those people? It is more than a fraud. Meanwhile it is kind of terror. I even do not know some of the people who act so strange against me.

There is mire of all kind in front of my door, my mail gets lost, that means, that strangers call me in the evening, that I should come to them and take my letter. Or my neighbour writes a note: "I have your letter. Do you want to receive it?" It are always important letters, business-ones or from friends. Often those, which are related to the house-managment. In the beginning I thought it is coincidentially and even apologized for the inconveniences.

And although that is only a very short version of all that happened (and happens) I somehow felt ever shy to speak to other neighbours, who are rather sure not members of CofS. Your article helped me to understand a bit, why.

There is an atmosphere of closeness, of hiding, I don't know, how to express.

I feel, that no one of the other inhabitants is really willing to get involved and by knowing, they would have to do something. I think they do not want to receive weird things. They prefer swallowing the fraud. I can understand that.

The post-officers are very concerned and they told me, that something really weird is going on in 2 houses of our street. I even then did not dare to talk about, what I think, that happens.

I am also afraid, that things will go worse now. In the last weeks it was quiet, since I put postings on the black board of the house, that mentioned [www.xenu.net], a website for people, who want to leave the cult or get any info about it.

But yesterday was maybe the beginning of a new "handling" or so. Sometimes they (the handlings, I call them so) end in heavy threats against me. And then it is quiet again for a while. Then comes e.g. the next money-demand and when I ask that I want to see a bill at least, they do not show me. Just if I don't pay they send threatening letters from their lawyers. Then I pay always.

If anybody has any suggestions, about what should I do, I would be very thankful.

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If you warn people that a cult recruiter is operating in their area, do not expect straightforward gratitude. People are complex.

Make certain you're clear you are doing the right thing and provide information that can be fact checked. Because your efforts to educate the public will cause a surprising number of people to get mad at you.

That was what I feared. Great explanations! (':)')