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The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: ohmygosh ()
Date: January 01, 2004 08:00AM

I am new on the forum. I am a member of several other forums that pertain to destructive churches.

The direction of this message thread is more than I can bear.

But, I opted to jump in here, because the Destructive Church forum contained posts by Azuza.

(Note to poster: please do not take this personally, it is not you, just the name and the movement that scares me)

Between Azuza and Nazi's and the Arian Brothers

I figure that I am more terrified about Azuza.

(From Nazi's at least you can hide, maybe)

So, I joined the forum today, because there is a lawsuit against a well know organization, and I would like to discuss it with rational people.

But, I am not sure that I can handle this board.

There is no emoticon with the hair sticking straight up on its smiley face.

OhMyGosh

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The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: genkiguy ()
Date: January 03, 2004 09:51AM

Hey Ohmygosh, Could you tell me the name of these other forums on "destructive churches"???
I'm really keen on posting info about one "church" in particular,..see above.

Hey I'm sure you can handle this board, if anyone bothers you, just remember they are just words on a screen, if you have something to contribute please go ahead,

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The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: ohmygosh ()
Date: January 04, 2004 12:41AM

The UPCI and the Mississippi District Board of the UPCI are being sued for 35 million dollars.

I am guessing they will draw "the sword of the spirit"
spiritual warfare, special prayer teams of "god's annointed ones" will be assembled.

and all hell is about to break loose in poor little Petal Mississippi

The UPCI likes their kingdoms
and their millions


and I am just fed up with "their right to practice their religion"
their gods are their bellies

and the general public should not be subjected to that

anyone have any ideas about what can be done?

OhMyGosh

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The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: j_perry65 ()
Date: January 13, 2004 03:08AM

Don't try to argue with the racist;he's like all the others I've
met in my 38 years on the planet...no amount of persuasion
will convince him that he's wrong;he's just convinced himself
that he's right,and that the 50 years of revisionist history that
anti-semites have cooked up he's accepting as fact.
Bottom line,he's full of it;he just won't admit it.

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The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: ex-krishna ()
Date: January 13, 2004 11:04AM

I want to commend the rrmoderator on the way he/she dealt with that Hengist character. And I'm glad Hengist seems to be gone. It's a real shock to come across such a cold, hateful voice - we must all mourn the Holocaust and never forget the lesson it taught us about the extremes of human cruelty and also, of human courage.

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Re: The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 14, 2009 01:05AM

Deceit & Misrepresentation The Techniques of Holocaust Denial

The "Science" of Denial,the Denial of Science


[www.nizkor.org]


(to get the active links cited on this page, go to the Nizkor Project website)

Quote

Writer: Mike Stein

In recent years, Holocaust deniers have turned to "scientific" arguments to "prove" that the Nazi regime could not have used gas chambers to carry out an extermination program against Jews and Gypsies. The "Leuchter and Rudolf reports" purported to demonstrate that there was not enough cyanide residue in the Auschwitz gas chambers to be consistent with mass gassing. Friedrich Paul Berg, in his paper "The Diesel Gas Chambers: Myth Within a Myth," claims to show that it would be improbable at best and nearly impossible at worst to use diesel engine exhaust to kill people in the manner and time described by eyewitnesses to the gas chambers at Belzec and Treblinka. Both papers cite experiments, laboratory analyses, chemical compositions, etc. just like any other objective scientific paper - or so the authors would like us to believe.

The danger of this new denier approach is that few people have the technical background to analyze the papers and understand their fundamental flaws. Too many people glance at the arguments, see "science," and immediately their eyes glaze over. They figure that since it's "scientific," there must be something to it. Thus Holocaust denial gains scientific credibility.

Unfortunately, there's a difference between denier "science" and true science. The fundamental principle of true science is this: any theory must take into account any relevant observable facts. That is, the theory must fit the facts; a true scientist never denies facts simply because they don't fit the theory. The way an honest scientist works is to make observations first, and only then come up with a theory which explains what is seen. If at any time the facts contradict the theory, the theory is discarded as false. A new one must be formed.

The Holocaust deniers reverse this process. First they decide what they want the "facts" to be, contrary to all eyewitness testimony and documentary and physical evidence. They come up with theories to "prove" that the "true" facts must be the way they want them to be. Therefore all documents are forgeries or mean something other than what they clearly seem to mean, and eyewitnesses to events which contradict their theory must be lying, mistaken, crazy, or victims of some form of coercion which caused themto give false testimony.

There are other ways in which honest science can be distinguished from quackery. Real scientists are cautious. They look at possible alternative explanations. They look for possible sources of error. They explain any limitations or problems they know about. They shy away from making assumptions, and if they do have to make them, they explain and justify them openly. All conclusions are based on facts plus properly established theories, not speculation and unproven assumptions.

When one examines denier "science," one finds that every one of these rules are violated. Fred Leuchter simply assumed that it would have taken just as much cyanide to kill people as it took to kill lice. That's false; lice take much more cyanide to kill and they need to be exposed to it for a lot longer. He also seems to have assumed that gassings took place much more often than they really did, apparently taking the abnormal conditions at the peak of the Hungarian deportations as being typical of the entire time at Birkenau.

Leuchter also assumed that since the delousing chambers have blue stains (apparently from cyanide compounds such as prussian blue), the gas chambers would have had the same staining. In fact, the formation of prussian blue from exposure to cyanide is not well understood. The rate of its formation, if it is formed at all, may vary considerably under different circumstances.

Friedrich Berg argued that it is very difficult to make diesel engines generate enough carbon monoxide to kill within half an hour or so, as reported by the witnesses at Treblinka. Actually, he is right - the primary cause of death was probably asphyxiation (i.e., simple lack of oxygen). However, Berg violated all the rules. First, he failed to deal with explicit eyewitness testimony that the victims suffocated to death. Second, he didn't look very closely at other ways in which diesel exhaust could kill people under the circumstances reported at Treblinka. He completely glossed over the question of whether the combined effects of low oxygen, high carbon dioxide, moderate carbon monoxide, high levels of oxides of nitrogen, and overcrowding in a very small chamber can kill even though perhaps each individual effect could not.

There's a story, perhaps apocryphal, that someone using aerodynamic theory once "proved" that bumblebees cannot fly. However, the bumblebees, unimpressed by this triumph of science, refused to walk from flower to flower and continued flying just as before.

The Holocaust deniers' "scientists" are in the same position: they attempt to prove that facts are not facts. In the most real sense, the "science" employed in the service of Holocaust denial is, in truth, the denial of every principle of the scientific method - indeed, the denial of science itself.



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Re: The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: yasmin ()
Date: May 14, 2009 04:42AM

Heartbreaking to remember the horrendous cruelties humans can inflict on other humans. Remembering the truth is one way of honoring the dead.

Unfortunately attempting to deny unpleasant reality does not change it.

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Re: The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: newagesurvivor ()
Date: May 16, 2009 08:35PM

Quote
corboy
Deceit & Misrepresentation The Techniques of Holocaust Denial

The "Science" of Denial,the Denial of Science


[www.nizkor.org]

Thanks, Corboy, for bringing this article here. I was very much upset to find this holocaust denial by Friedrich Berg forwarded and mostly blindly accepted on a yahoo group site "dedicated to spiritual ascension" last December. Here's the link to that "discussion" by those "angels" and "enlightened" people. As far as I could see no-one there addressed the matter or even tryed to offer any scientific reasoning to Berg's claims - and some of those "angels" in that group have Ph.D. titles and like. I myself am not a doctor of anything, I only have a master's degree in social sciences, but even I could have written something to counter Berg's methods and jargon. I'm not a member of that (or any other) group, so I couldn't post.

And to even think that there's been a time when I looked up to those people in that site! They really got me fooled once, with all those forwarded slicky messages from "ascended masters" and what not. All those foreign concepts they used got me fooled, like "portals", "energy", "matrix", "spirituality", and of course all those fairy tales told (cult tales, I later found out) got me so confused I really thought they were extremely intelligent and knowing and I was just plain stupid. Well, I wasn't, but maybe that's what those cultic doings were trying to do to me. What I'm trying to say here is, I wasn't familiar with cults or how they work and influence people, and I was way too gullible. I didn't realize that people who write about TRUTH and stuff with capital letters are actually telling the biggest lies ever. I didn't realize that behind all that slicky talk there's just commercial interests, manipulation, and all the good old GRAB MONEY & POWER machinations.

I was also fooled by the concept of "enlightenment". What later woke me up was seeing that those who claim to be enlightened are mostly the stupidest people I've ever seen. Stupid, arrogant and evil. Like denying holocaust, because "nothing in this maya/matrix/3D is real anyway", or some other fairy tale excuse or no explanation at all. And denying holocaust, because of relying on a poorly made but slicky presentation of a neo-nazi. FUCK!!!

I'm still upset by the fact that these fucking retards and right-wing americans had me fooled for a while. I'm upset and ashamed and sad.

And nazis didn't exterminate just jewish people. They put their political opponents (like communists, socialists and anarchists) in the concentration camps as well, and people who were not "fit to survive" like homosexuals and lesbians, disabled or crippled people, gypsies, criminals, and also intellectuals from the seized countries/areas. There are many estimates on the number of victims, but it's usually estimated 10 to 11 millions all in all (including the estimate of 6 million jews).

There were concentration camps in many European countries already before the nazis and also at the same time (and at least Russians had concentration camps long after the second WW). There's been smaller concentration camps in my country during the war.

And this should all be denied in the name of some fucking "enlightenment"??? I no longer believe in any of that crap. I no longer believe in enlightenment or enlightened people. Sorry about ranting, but I'm still a little bit upset.

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Re: The religious cult of "the holocaust"
Posted by: JB White ()
Date: May 24, 2009 01:54AM

The gov. of Germany admits it happened. Is anyone on the planet in better position to sift through the data? France, Denmark, Poland, Austria, dont say different. Spielbergs tape library with excess of 50 thou. survivors stories is beyond denial. Im sorry for you, man. I think you believe what u posted. Go look for proof it did happen with as much conviction. Then compare ur findings.

[thewhitereport.com]

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