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richardmgreen

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rrmoderator
richard:

Why do you think the Lubavitchers don't have a new rebbe?

This seems very odd given their history.

It seems to me that they felt t they didn't have anyone of Menachem Mendel Shcneerson's caliber. I had heard that years ago they were thinking of making Adin Steinsaltz the rebbe but that didn't go through.

Didn't go through!? Adin Steinsaltz wouldn't want any part of the mess! The guy is an intellectual genius. Why would he want that kind of responsibility, politics, and headaches! I'm sure he turned the position down if it was even offered.

Rumor has it that Shlomo Carlebach was being groomed for the position years ago, but abandoned the Chabad scene and carved his own little problematic situation. Nice stories and music though.

The last of the really great Torah giants was the tzadik Rav Kaduri. He was promised to live long enough to see the Moshiach, but has passed away recently without that happening. I think he was 108 years old. He was friendly with the Lubavicher Rebbe but never accepted him as Moshiach. Jews are pretty much left out in the cold.....again. We'll figure it out and survive even with you hanging out with the other tribes. :D
".....No direction or home.....like a rolling stone...." ~super Jew B.Dylan

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You may or may not be a J4J. Just because you are not preaching Christianity does not mean you are not promoting their agenda, which is to defame their mortal enemy Chabad! LOL Take it easy. Jews have a lot of experience dealing with their periodic Shabtai Zvis (self proclaimed Messiahs). Sometimes some guys just go off the deep end to the Other Side! :D The Rebbe cult is already dying down. Be happy.

I'm glad the cult is dying. My beef with Chabad is on several levels. Also, as per my involvement in Christianity, it may be temporary. I'm moving from my current situation and I'm not planning on joining another church. I'm trying to get away from religion. I'm not a normative Christian. I don't believe J walked on water, resurrected the dead or wa resurrected himself. Do you feel better now?

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egel ha zahav

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richardmgreen

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egel ha zahav
So richard, it was out of the frying pan and into the fire for you, eh. One cult to another. You are a Jew for Jesus using this forum. Clever.

I have no such agenda vis a vis pushing Christianity of Rick Ross would have gotten on my case about it. I'm in the church for good reason and you don't have to agree about it. Judaism believes in miracles too not just Christianity and I have my doubts about all of it.
I'm not part of J4J and if they use subterfuge, which I've heard they do then I'm not into it.

I wasn't speaking about miracles, only the specific belief in the divinity of a mortal man or that he is God (part of trinity, incarnation, or whatever...). Judaism is the only religion I know about that does not raise a man to the level of a worshipable idol. Our brother Muslims have put a curious spin on the concept. They'll kill you for drawing a picture of Bro Mo, but praise his name daily and tell you that he lept on his magic horse from the Temple Mount in Jerusalem to Mecca! I don't need to talk about the dangers of this personality cult and [i:5babd095ab]new religion[/i:5babd095ab] (compared to Judaism and Christianity)!

You may or may not be a J4J. Just because you are not preaching Christianity does not mean you are not promoting their agenda, which is to defame their mortal enemy Chabad! LOL Take it easy. Jews have a lot of experience dealing with their periodic Shabtai Zvis (self proclaimed Messiahs). Sometimes some guys just go off the deep end to the Other Side! :D The Rebbe cult is already dying down. Be happy.

If the Rebbe cult is dying what do you think of the 1000 Chabad rabbis who "decided with certainty that the Rebbe is the "king Moshiach"?

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richardmgreen

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egel ha zahav

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richardmgreen

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egel ha zahav
So richard, it was out of the frying pan and into the fire for you, eh. One cult to another. You are a Jew for Jesus using this forum. Clever.

I have no such agenda vis a vis pushing Christianity of Rick Ross would have gotten on my case about it. I'm in the church for good reason and you don't have to agree about it. Judaism believes in miracles too not just Christianity and I have my doubts about all of it.
I'm not part of J4J and if they use subterfuge, which I've heard they do then I'm not into it.

I wasn't speaking about miracles, only the specific belief in the divinity of a mortal man or that he is God (part of trinity, incarnation, or whatever...). Judaism is the only religion I know about that does not raise a man to the level of a worshipable idol. Our brother Muslims have put a curious spin on the concept. They'll kill you for drawing a picture of Bro Mo, but praise his name daily and tell you that he lept on his magic horse from the Temple Mount in Jerusalem to Mecca! I don't need to talk about the dangers of this personality cult and [i:ba516ef070]new religion[/i:ba516ef070] (compared to Judaism and Christianity)!

You may or may not be a J4J. Just because you are not preaching Christianity does not mean you are not promoting their agenda, which is to defame their mortal enemy Chabad! LOL Take it easy. Jews have a lot of experience dealing with their periodic Shabtai Zvis (self proclaimed Messiahs). Sometimes some guys just go off the deep end to the Other Side! :D The Rebbe cult is already dying down. Be happy.

If the Rebbe cult is dying what do you think of the 1000 Chabad rabbis who "decided with certainty that the Rebbe is the "king Moshiach"?

This was not a recent proclamation, and if it was, not the totality of Chabad Rabbis. And as you know, not the majority opinion of world jewry or Rabbis. While there are many that still give lip service to this, there are cracks appearing everywhere. There are Chabad congregations that people go to specifically because the Rabbi doesn't preach this idea. It's a hot and living topic. You are either mishahest or an "anti" (anti-mishahest). "Antis" have to be careful and quiet in some places (Crown Heights) while in others, they are free to express. There are Chabad Rabbis who run independent synagogues from the control of regional directors (they also lose financial and other backing by doing this, so they are established congregations with good fundraising systems independent of Chabad). They even send the kids into independent orthodox or non-sectarian jewish day schools.

There are a lot of young Lubavichers and Baal Tshuvahs that never met the Rebbe that don't accept the idea for obvious reasons..... he died, never united Israel, and the third temple was not re-built --- all criteria for Moshiach not fulfilled.

Some of the same archaic yeshiva systems that you suffered under still exist in other streams of orthodox judaism as well, and the same jerks run them. But not all of the yeshivas are bad though.

No doubt Chabad is here to stay and even growing, but the younger generation is changing it. There are also the Chabad royalty that goes back generations that will continue the basic traditions ala the Previous Rebbe and support the yeshivas. In the Shliach conventions, Rabbis are being advised to no longer push the Rebbe/Moshiach thing (but still believe it). Chabad will survive, but not the cult of the Rebbe.

Since the Rebbes death, Chabad also doesn't hold so much power over Israeli politics anymore, as is obvious from recent events. And people are doubting more about the Rebbe's influence. If he was Moshiach, and more powerful as he is free from his corporal body, why are they giving back the land?????

Over time (perhaps a generation or two) the Rebbe will be looked at like another Shabtai Zvi cult in the history of Judaism. Either that, or a new cult similar to how Christianity evolved will emerge. But I doubt you will ever live to see the day when statues of the Rebbe or his teffilin pinned up on the walls with flower arrangements below! :D

Kol Tov.

I have received repeated complaints about Aish and its related yeshivas from Jewish families and individuals.

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rrmoderator
I have received repeated complaints about Aish and its related yeshivas from Jewish families and individuals.

My family got totally fed up with my involvement in Aish, Chabad, Jungreis, etc.. I was affiliated with about 20 outreach orgs and it led me to nowhere. Not to mention all the trouble it caused me in finding work when Corporate America usually doesn't hire Chasidim.

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egel ha zahav
I would not condemn the whole of Chabad Chassidut or other Chassidic sects or equate them with a cult or a new religious movement as discussed under this heading.

I don't lump in groups like Bobov, Munkatch or Breslov in with Chabad. Chabad is a group unto itself.

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egel ha zahav

Even the concept of Moshiach (Messiah) in Judaism is profoundly different than in Christianity. The people who believed that the Rebbe was Moshiach never equated him with God. This is fundamental to Judaism. Anything different is [u:e925e207e4][i:e925e207e4]not[/i:e925e207e4][/u:e925e207e4] Judaism. This is very clear. There are no alters to the Rebbe, nor is he worshipped in the synagogue. (You might see a lot of pictures of the Rebbe everywhere with the mishihest folks,but they don't burn incense or offer sacrifices to his efigy!) Religious services are the same as they were hundreds of years ago before Menachem Mendel showed up.

The issue is that richard green suffered under the fanatical hands of a group that has turned their sect into a cult. This is the tragedy. No wonder he jumped ship and is still working out a lot of hurt and anger.

I find love and warmth in Christianity, and as Sammy Intrator said when he was the rabbi at the Carlebach Shul, who is he to deny me that.
But the awe that the Chasidim held Rabbi Scheerson in was fanatical. According to some, he was the best rabbi, best mathematician, best doctor etc. It's hard not to say that it was a "Rebbe Cult"