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Let me ask them. Some of them were here for years, some for months, some just visited.
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rrmoderator
zeuszor:
Warning.
Please refrain from derisive comments or name calling such as "cowpoop."
There should be reasonable courtesy at this message board.
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NathanA
This forum is really heating up. I said it earlier and I will say it again. My reasons for not yet reading the book, are not because i'm afraid that i'll be wrong, or that i don't want to for that matter. I have not read the book because I have not been sure it is beneficial. Anyone can write a book that is an indictment of someone else. To me it is a matter of conscience. For example, I would not buy a book that said the Jews were responsible for World War II. As far as I know, there is no prerogative that you must have read Wendy Duncan's book in order to post here. Although it is wise to be well informed. The discussion here is whether or not TFI is a cult, and what is the evidence for that? You could say that I am not being objective there, but that is not necessarily the case. I am open to the idea of reading the book, but only when i am convinced there is just cause to. Thus far I have only questioned you and stood firm to see your very best arguements. The most extreme thing I've said is that you fail to recognize the Christ I believe in. I am not intending to be inflammatory to anyone. I am not name calling.
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zeuszorQuote
NathanA
This forum is really heating up. I said it earlier and I will say it again. My reasons for not yet reading the book, are not because i'm afraid that i'll be wrong, or that i don't want to for that matter. I have not read the book because I have not been sure it is beneficial. Anyone can write a book that is an indictment of someone else. To me it is a matter of conscience. For example, I would not buy a book that said the Jews were responsible for World War II. As far as I know, there is no prerogative that you must have read Wendy Duncan's book in order to post here. Although it is wise to be well informed. The discussion here is whether or not TFI is a cult, and what is the evidence for that? You could say that I am not being objective there, but that is not necessarily the case. I am open to the idea of reading the book, but only when i am convinced there is just cause to. Thus far I have only questioned you and stood firm to see your very best arguements. The most extreme thing I've said is that you fail to recognize the Christ I believe in. I am not intending to be inflammatory to anyone. I am not name calling.
What will it take for us to persuade you to read the book, Nathan? Under what conditions or circumstances would you believe there to be "just cause" to do so? Please, I am here to help you, not hurt you.
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counselor47Quote
Let me ask them. Some of them were here for years, some for months, some just visited.
You can skip the ones who just visited. I was there for 20 years, remember? I don't think I am going to be impressed by anyone who just visited the place and thought it was neat. But if there are people who spent time there and were legitimately involved and who do not think it is a cult, I would love to speak to them. I probably already know them, anyway.
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cherenuff1Quote
zeuszorQuote
NathanA
This forum is really heating up. I said it earlier and I will say it again. My reasons for not yet reading the book, are not because i'm afraid that i'll be wrong, or that i don't want to for that matter. I have not read the book because I have not been sure it is beneficial. Anyone can write a book that is an indictment of someone else. To me it is a matter of conscience. For example, I would not buy a book that said the Jews were responsible for World War II. As far as I know, there is no prerogative that you must have read Wendy Duncan's book in order to post here. Although it is wise to be well informed. The discussion here is whether or not TFI is a cult, and what is the evidence for that? You could say that I am not being objective there, but that is not necessarily the case. I am open to the idea of reading the book, but only when i am convinced there is just cause to. Thus far I have only questioned you and stood firm to see your very best arguements. The most extreme thing I've said is that you fail to recognize the Christ I believe in. I am not intending to be inflammatory to anyone. I am not name calling.
What will it take for us to persuade you to read the book, Nathan? Under what conditions or circumstances would you believe there to be "just cause" to do so? Please, I am here to help you, not hurt you.
Well Zeuszor...from all your posts, I'm assuming that Counselor and the other ex-members never told you EVERYTHING and informed you of what was missing in the book. Ask them. What will it take for me to persuade you to realize the book is missing information?
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zeuszor
Let's be careful with our terms here. When I say that TFI fits the criteria to be called a cult I make that judgement based on these three criteria:
[b:b31a26ee1f]1) Is there an authoritarian leader running the show with no meaningful accountability? YES
2) Are there doctrines and/or techniques in place that involve a process of systematically using coercive persuation/thought reform/"brainwashing" methods to mold the minds of the members in serving the leader and the "cause"? YES
3) Are the members, particularly the "inner circle" close to the leader, exploited financially, sexually, psychologically, etc. BY the leader? YES[/b:b31a26ee1f]
A healthy church has a democratically-elected chuch leadership with a written constitution and bylaws that the leadership is governed by and held ACCOUNTABLE to. A healthy church is a FINANCIALLY ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENT church. This holds as well for the finances of its leaders; their salaries, etc. are in the public record. A healthy church has EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS at the topmost levels for its leadership. TFI is missing all of these.
hahaha Now I sound like I'M reading off of a script! Nathan, it's your call. Can you handle the truth?
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cherenuff1Quote
zeuszorQuote
Don't forget to mention to Marian that you could barely do your job because of you being 'high' on marijauna most of the time and that you were kicked out because a church took you in to help you get back on your feet yet you smoked POT on the church premises around where children were at times!.
It's true that I was smoking a lot of MJ while I was with TFI but it is not true that I was taken in with the intention of them helping me get on my feet. I was hired to be Pete's assistant and left JPUSA in Chicago to go and work with TFI. I flew into Dallas to do it and had been communicating with Pete via phone for a couple of weeks before I got to Dallas. I had just recently gotten out of the Army and had plenty of money and wanted to come and work with TFI on purpose and as a matter of fact was deliighted with the opportunity to work with them. I was not "kicked out", either. Ole squeezed me out of my job and my place to live by making a bunch of excuses as to why I had to move out of the Lair. I have explained this thoroughly elsewhere on the board. And I was actually pretty good at my job too. Does the fact that I have admitted to having a problem with smoking grass invalidate any and all other points I have to make? What does that really have to do with anything? If you think I never "got" the doctrine taught there because I smoked grass, you are wrong. Frankly, if anything, the herb made Ole's doctrine seems all the more bizarre. I'm not saying I did the right thing or that I am proud of it, because I am not. So the fact that I used to like to smoke somehow distorted my understanding and point of view and invalidates everything I have to say? Come on, that is ridiculous.
This forum is not for whether or not marijauna is right or wrong but since you brought it up. Yes...I and many state and legal agencies believe that smoking can impair understanding and if you were smoking most of the time at Trinity, I would have to invalidate some of your perceptions while you were there.
[i:b31a26ee1f]Excerpt from: [www.realmentalhealth.com]
Marijuana has specific effects that may decrease one's ability to perform tasks requiring a great deal of coordination (such as driving a car). Visual tracking is impaired and the sense of time is typically prolonged.
[b:b31a26ee1f]Learning may be greatly affected because the drug diminishes one's ability to concentrate and pay attention[/b:b31a26ee1f]. Studies have shown that learning may become "state-dependent" meaning that information acquired or learned while under the influence of marijuana is best recalled in the same state of drug influence. [/i:b31a26ee1f]
[i:b31a26ee1f]Excerpt from: [www.marijuana-addiction.net]
Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. [b:b31a26ee1f]The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use[/b:b31a26ee1f]. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.[/i:b31a26ee1f]
Again, this forum is not about your use of the drug. I don’t care. I just want to point out that your credibility and experiences are in question. From personal experience, I absolutely know that when someone is under the influence that their perceptions are far different than reality.