The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: November 30, 2006 02:23AM
Quote
Don't forget to mention to Marian that you could barely do your job because of you being 'high' on marijauna most of the time and that you were kicked out because a church took you in to help you get back on your feet yet you smoked POT on the church premises around where children were at times!.
It's true that I was smoking a lot of MJ while I was with TFI but it is not true that I was taken in with the intention of them helping me get on my feet. I was hired to be Pete's assistant and left JPUSA in Chicago to go and work with TFI. I flew into Dallas to do it and had been communicating with Pete via phone for a couple of weeks before I got to Dallas. I had just recently gotten out of the Army and had plenty of money and wanted to come and work with TFI on purpose and as a matter of fact was deliighted with the opportunity to work with them. I was not "kicked out", either. Ole squeezed me out of my job and my place to live by making a bunch of excuses as to why I had to move out of the Lair. I have explained this thoroughly elsewhere on the board. And I was actually pretty good at my job too. Does the fact that I have admitted to having a problem with smoking grass invalidate any and all other points I have to make? What does that really have to do with anything? If you think I never "got" the doctrine taught there because I smoked grass, you are wrong. Frankly, if anything, the herb made Ole's doctrine seems all the more bizarre. I'm not saying I did the right thing or that I am proud of it, because I am not. So the fact that I used to like to smoke somehow distorted my understanding and point of view and invalidates everything I have to say? Come on, that is ridiculous.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 30, 2006 02:55AM
Quote
zeuszorQuote
Don't forget to mention to Marian that you could barely do your job because of you being 'high' on marijauna most of the time and that you were kicked out because a church took you in to help you get back on your feet yet you smoked POT on the church premises around where children were at times!.
It's true that I was smoking a lot of MJ while I was with TFI but it is not true that I was taken in with the intention of them helping me get on my feet. I was hired to be Pete's assistant and left JPUSA in Chicago to go and work with TFI. I flew into Dallas to do it and had been communicating with Pete via phone for a couple of weeks before I got to Dallas. I had just recently gotten out of the Army and had plenty of money and wanted to come and work with TFI on purpose and as a matter of fact was deliighted with the opportunity to work with them. I was not "kicked out", either. Ole squeezed me out of my job and my place to live by making a bunch of excuses as to why I had to move out of the Lair. I have explained this thoroughly elsewhere on the board. And I was actually pretty good at my job too. Does the fact that I have admitted to having a problem with smoking grass invalidate any and all other points I have to make? What does that really have to do with anything? If you think I never "got" the doctrine taught there because I smoked grass, you are wrong. Frankly, if anything, the herb made Ole's doctrine seems all the more bizarre. I'm not saying I did the right thing or that I am proud of it, because I am not. So the fact that I used to like to smoke somehow distorted my understanding and point of view and invalidates everything I have to say? Come on, that is ridiculous.
This forum is not for whether or not marijauna is right or wrong but since you brought it up. Yes...I and many state and legal agencies believe that smoking can impair understanding and if you were smoking most of the time at Trinity, I would have to invalidate some of your perceptions while you were there.
[i:a4397279ae]Excerpt from: [www.realmentalhealth.com]
Marijuana has specific effects that may decrease one's ability to perform tasks requiring a great deal of coordination (such as driving a car). Visual tracking is impaired and the sense of time is typically prolonged.
[b:a4397279ae]Learning may be greatly affected because the drug diminishes one's ability to concentrate and pay attention[/b:a4397279ae]. Studies have shown that learning may become "state-dependent" meaning that information acquired or learned while under the influence of marijuana is best recalled in the same state of drug influence. [/i:a4397279ae]
[i:a4397279ae]Excerpt from: [www.marijuana-addiction.net]
Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. [b:a4397279ae]The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use[/b:a4397279ae]. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.[/i:a4397279ae]
Again, this forum is not about your use of the drug. I don’t care. I just want to point out that your credibility and experiences are in question. From personal experience, I absolutely know that when someone is under the influence that their perceptions are far different than reality.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: November 30, 2006 04:41AM
Quote
zeuszor
Let's be careful with our terms here. When I say that TFI fits the criteria to be called a cult I make that judgement based on these three criteria:
[b:2b5d84eed7]1) Is there an authoritarian leader running the show with no meaningful accountability? YES
2) Are there doctrines and/or techniques in place that involve a process of systematically using coercive persuation/thought reform/"brainwashing" methods to mold the minds of the members in serving the leader and the "cause"? YES
3) Are the members, particularly the "inner circle" close to the leader, exploited financially, sexually, psychologically, etc. BY the leader? YES[/b:2b5d84eed7]
A healthy church has a democratically-elected chuch leadership with a written constitution and bylaws that the leadership is governed by and held ACCOUNTABLE to. A healthy church is a FINANCIALLY ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENT church. This holds as well for the finances of its leaders; their salaries, etc. are in the public record. A healthy church has EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS at the topmost levels for its leadership. TFI is missing all of these.
hahaha Now I sound like I'M reading off of a script! Nathan, it's your call. Can you handle the truth?
Quote
cherenuff1Quote
zeuszorQuote
Don't forget to mention to Marian that you could barely do your job because of you being 'high' on marijauna most of the time and that you were kicked out because a church took you in to help you get back on your feet yet you smoked POT on the church premises around where children were at times!.
It's true that I was smoking a lot of MJ while I was with TFI but it is not true that I was taken in with the intention of them helping me get on my feet. I was hired to be Pete's assistant and left JPUSA in Chicago to go and work with TFI. I flew into Dallas to do it and had been communicating with Pete via phone for a couple of weeks before I got to Dallas. I had just recently gotten out of the Army and had plenty of money and wanted to come and work with TFI on purpose and as a matter of fact was deliighted with the opportunity to work with them. I was not "kicked out", either. Ole squeezed me out of my job and my place to live by making a bunch of excuses as to why I had to move out of the Lair. I have explained this thoroughly elsewhere on the board. And I was actually pretty good at my job too. Does the fact that I have admitted to having a problem with smoking grass invalidate any and all other points I have to make? What does that really have to do with anything? If you think I never "got" the doctrine taught there because I smoked grass, you are wrong. Frankly, if anything, the herb made Ole's doctrine seems all the more bizarre. I'm not saying I did the right thing or that I am proud of it, because I am not. So the fact that I used to like to smoke somehow distorted my understanding and point of view and invalidates everything I have to say? Come on, that is ridiculous.
This forum is not for whether or not marijauna is right or wrong but since you brought it up. Yes...I and many state and legal agencies believe that smoking can impair understanding and if you were smoking most of the time at Trinity, I would have to invalidate some of your perceptions while you were there.
[i:2b5d84eed7]Excerpt from: [www.realmentalhealth.com]
Marijuana has specific effects that may decrease one's ability to perform tasks requiring a great deal of coordination (such as driving a car). Visual tracking is impaired and the sense of time is typically prolonged.
[b:2b5d84eed7]Learning may be greatly affected because the drug diminishes one's ability to concentrate and pay attention[/b:2b5d84eed7]. Studies have shown that learning may become "state-dependent" meaning that information acquired or learned while under the influence of marijuana is best recalled in the same state of drug influence. [/i:2b5d84eed7]
[i:2b5d84eed7]Excerpt from: [www.marijuana-addiction.net]
Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. [b:2b5d84eed7]The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use[/b:2b5d84eed7]. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.[/i:2b5d84eed7]
Again, this forum is not about your use of the drug. I don’t care. I just want to point out that your credibility and experiences are in question. From personal experience, I absolutely know that when someone is under the influence that their perceptions are far different than reality.
Ole teaches spiritual cowpoop doctrine whether I am smoking herb ir not.
Ole has abused and degraded scores of people who have sat under his teaching for any period of time whether I was smoking or not. The facts are the facts. My personal life has nothing to do with it. Ole and TFI fit the criteria.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: November 30, 2006 04:42AM
Quote
zeuszorQuote
zeuszor
Let's be careful with our terms here. When I say that TFI fits the criteria to be called a cult I make that judgement based on these three criteria:
[b:fa26968dde]1) Is there an authoritarian leader running the show with no meaningful accountability? YES
2) Are there doctrines and/or techniques in place that involve a process of systematically using coercive persuation/thought reform/"brainwashing" methods to mold the minds of the members in serving the leader and the "cause"? YES
3) Are the members, particularly the "inner circle" close to the leader, exploited financially, sexually, psychologically, etc. BY the leader? YES[/b:fa26968dde]
A healthy church has a democratically-elected chuch leadership with a written constitution and bylaws that the leadership is governed by and held ACCOUNTABLE to. A healthy church is a FINANCIALLY ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENT church. This holds as well for the finances of its leaders; their salaries, etc. are in the public record. A healthy church has EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS at the topmost levels for its leadership. TFI is missing all of these.
hahaha Now I sound like I'M reading off of a script! Nathan, it's your call. Can you handle the truth?Quote
cherenuff1Quote
zeuszorQuote
Don't forget to mention to Marian that you could barely do your job because of you being 'high' on marijauna most of the time and that you were kicked out because a church took you in to help you get back on your feet yet you smoked POT on the church premises around where children were at times!.
It's true that I was smoking a lot of MJ while I was with TFI but it is not true that I was taken in with the intention of them helping me get on my feet. I was hired to be Pete's assistant and left JPUSA in Chicago to go and work with TFI. I flew into Dallas to do it and had been communicating with Pete via phone for a couple of weeks before I got to Dallas. I had just recently gotten out of the Army and had plenty of money and wanted to come and work with TFI on purpose and as a matter of fact was deliighted with the opportunity to work with them. I was not "kicked out", either. Ole squeezed me out of my job and my place to live by making a bunch of excuses as to why I had to move out of the Lair. I have explained this thoroughly elsewhere on the board. And I was actually pretty good at my job too. Does the fact that I have admitted to having a problem with smoking grass invalidate any and all other points I have to make? What does that really have to do with anything? If you think I never "got" the doctrine taught there because I smoked grass, you are wrong. Frankly, if anything, the herb made Ole's doctrine seems all the more bizarre. I'm not saying I did the right thing or that I am proud of it, because I am not. So the fact that I used to like to smoke somehow distorted my understanding and point of view and invalidates everything I have to say? Come on, that is ridiculous.
This forum is not for whether or not marijauna is right or wrong but since you brought it up. Yes...I and many state and legal agencies believe that smoking can impair understanding and if you were smoking most of the time at Trinity, I would have to invalidate some of your perceptions while you were there.
[i:fa26968dde]Excerpt from: [www.realmentalhealth.com]
Marijuana has specific effects that may decrease one's ability to perform tasks requiring a great deal of coordination (such as driving a car). Visual tracking is impaired and the sense of time is typically prolonged.
[b:fa26968dde]Learning may be greatly affected because the drug diminishes one's ability to concentrate and pay attention[/b:fa26968dde]. Studies have shown that learning may become "state-dependent" meaning that information acquired or learned while under the influence of marijuana is best recalled in the same state of drug influence. [/i:fa26968dde]
[i:fa26968dde]Excerpt from: [www.marijuana-addiction.net]
Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. [b:fa26968dde]The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use[/b:fa26968dde]. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.[/i:fa26968dde]
Again, this forum is not about your use of the drug. I don’t care. I just want to point out that your credibility and experiences are in question. From personal experience, I absolutely know that when someone is under the influence that their perceptions are far different than reality.
Ole teaches spiritual cowpoop doctrine whether I am smoking herb or not.
I always thought so. Ole has abused and degraded scores of people who have sat under his teaching for any period of time whether I was smoking or not. The facts are the facts. My personal life has nothing to do with it. Ole and TFI fit the criteria.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: November 30, 2006 04:52AM
Quote
zeuszorQuote
zeuszorQuote
zeuszor
Let's be careful with our terms here. When I say that TFI fits the criteria to be called a cult I make that judgement based on these three criteria:
[b:c6fefb1dd6]1) Is there an authoritarian leader running the show with no meaningful accountability? YES
2) Are there doctrines and/or techniques in place that involve a process of systematically using coercive persuation/thought reform/"brainwashing" methods to mold the minds of the members in serving the leader and the "cause"? YES
3) Are the members, particularly the "inner circle" close to the leader, exploited financially, sexually, psychologically, etc. BY the leader? YES[/b:c6fefb1dd6]
A healthy church has a democratically-elected chuch leadership with a written constitution and bylaws that the leadership is governed by and held ACCOUNTABLE to. A healthy church is a FINANCIALLY ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENT church. This holds as well for the finances of its leaders; their salaries, etc. are in the public record. A healthy church has EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS at the topmost levels for its leadership. TFI is missing all of these.
hahaha Now I sound like I'M reading off of a script! Can you handle the truth?
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 30, 2006 05:29AM
zeuszor:
Warning.
Please refrain from derisive comments or name calling such as "cowpoop."
There should be reasonable courtesy at this message board.
Warning.
Please refrain from derisive comments or name calling such as "cowpoop."
There should be reasonable courtesy at this message board.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
counselor47
()
Date: November 30, 2006 05:47AM
I don't want to defend zeuszor's use of marijuana--I do not condone it and he knows how I feel. However, I want to make two points:
1. This is another ad hominem attack. You are dismissing zeuszor as a credible person rather than dealing with any of the points he makes.
2. His heaviest use was back in the time at the beginning of this thread when he was actually [i:519d8d8c22]defending[/i:519d8d8c22] Trinity Foundation. Once he left his use subsided, the "fog cleared" so to speak, and that is when he began to have a clear vision of what Trinity was really about.
Zeuszor should not have used MJ while he was at Trinity Foundation, but he has apologized for that. It does not invalidate everything he has said, though.
1. This is another ad hominem attack. You are dismissing zeuszor as a credible person rather than dealing with any of the points he makes.
2. His heaviest use was back in the time at the beginning of this thread when he was actually [i:519d8d8c22]defending[/i:519d8d8c22] Trinity Foundation. Once he left his use subsided, the "fog cleared" so to speak, and that is when he began to have a clear vision of what Trinity was really about.
Zeuszor should not have used MJ while he was at Trinity Foundation, but he has apologized for that. It does not invalidate everything he has said, though.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
seeking
()
Date: November 30, 2006 09:09AM
This is what I find fascinating. I raise valid questions with NathanA and Cherenuff1 and instead of answering, both of them respond by trying to insinuate that there is something wrong with me. I have read several books about individual people’s experience in a cult. I understand that each person’s experience is to a certain extent bias, but in none of these books that I have read did I dismiss the author’s account and seek out other people involved in those groups to investigate it further. I feel the same with Duncan’s book. In my opinion, she gave a very honest account of why she got involved with Trinity Foundation and was extremely vulnerable in telling her story. She told a lot of things about her life that regretted and was ashamed about. She also made an excellent case for why she believes Trinity foundation is a cult. A convincing case, I might add.
But, I still don’t understand why you two are dissing me when neither one of you have read the book. (Cherenuff1, you admitted at one point, that you only read portions of it, now, you are saying that you have read all of it and it is a bunch of half-truths.) Why would the Duncan's quote all those former members and write the book if it wasn’t true? Wouldn’t they be sued for libel? Why would those former members agree to let themselves be quoted? They could be sued too!
And, Cherenuff, why on earth would I go talk with people who are currently involved with this cult? I can predict with 100% certainty that every one of them would tell me it is not a cult.
But, I still don’t understand why you two are dissing me when neither one of you have read the book. (Cherenuff1, you admitted at one point, that you only read portions of it, now, you are saying that you have read all of it and it is a bunch of half-truths.) Why would the Duncan's quote all those former members and write the book if it wasn’t true? Wouldn’t they be sued for libel? Why would those former members agree to let themselves be quoted? They could be sued too!
And, Cherenuff, why on earth would I go talk with people who are currently involved with this cult? I can predict with 100% certainty that every one of them would tell me it is not a cult.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
seeking
()
Date: November 30, 2006 09:16AM
Quote
Brad69
There was a story in my country, South Africa, recently that blew me away... everyone knows the the problem is huge. But no one wants to admit it..I couldn't believe it.
Nathan's approach to TFI, and his insistence on not reading the book, is, to me, a parallel to that kind of approach. He argues the case back and forth, but won't read the book, even though he knows it is there....
He's fooling himself if he dismisses the input from everyone on this thread. He's also questioning the excellent coverage by the Dallas Observer if he reads it and chooses not to read Wendy's book. The words "cognitive dissonance" spring to mind. It seems Nathan has to justify many things without his choices making much sense..."
[b:465c7217cc]Cherenuff1, Brad69 has never been to a Bible study either. How come you didn't try to discredit him? He has read Wendy's book and the Dallas Observer article and he has seen the truth.[/b:465c7217cc]
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
seeking
()
Date: November 30, 2006 09:20AM
[b:f12e6c457f](Quote from Boanerges)[/b:f12e6c457f]
Dear NathanA:
As painful as these memories are for we expatriates; it is most painful to me because it was my throat that O~ had a hold of. Yes, he, in fact, meted out his self-styled divine justice on me, which left me voiceless for a week or more. But then, this is only one of several such episodes –to a greater or lesser extent – that he saw fit to exact over the years… to a number of us.
I have been reluctant to enter into this dialogue, until now, because, unlike many of my fellows, the pain of my decade-long relationship with O~ remains with me every day and still denies me sleep on an all too regular basis. Writing to you now forces me to recollect these acrid events and encounters that I would rather not bring the surface; however, after following this discourse for a while I would like to set the record straight for you about the person you have became an apologist for.
Let me begin by saying that I have no financial, literary, theological, or artistic interest in anything that has anything to do with O~ or his surrogate, TFI. Nor do I care to debate theology (I’ll leave that bone to ya’ll). Wendy’s book stands alone as a thoroughly accurate account of her life “on the block” and differs from my personal experience considerable but the roots of our commonly experienced pain are exactly the same and are shared, almost unanimously, by those escapees still alive. Yes, some five or six of the most fragile former members are no longer able to speak to these atrocities!
For reasons I cannot comprehend, you have taken a stand for a person, a place, and a business that you have never met, been to, or participated in. Moreover, you have likewise discounted the experiences of a number of us who spent years under the “authority” of O~.
Unlike my fellows, who have given you tremendous counsel in these conversations, I would strongly encourage you to abandon your home, your family, your possessions, your conformability, “pick up your cross”, and move to the block. Spend a few years under O~’s rod and prove us all wrong. Perhaps, you will be the instrument for change that we were not. Perhaps, you’ll be the emissary that can create a bridge to reunited us all. At the very least, you will come to know what we have all learned to well: the operative definition of what it means to be the “Chief of Sinners”[/quote]
And, one more thing, we got this new person, Boanerges, who gets involved in the discussion even though he didn't really want to, and Cherenuff1 and NathanA, just ignore it! What is up with that??
Dear NathanA:
As painful as these memories are for we expatriates; it is most painful to me because it was my throat that O~ had a hold of. Yes, he, in fact, meted out his self-styled divine justice on me, which left me voiceless for a week or more. But then, this is only one of several such episodes –to a greater or lesser extent – that he saw fit to exact over the years… to a number of us.
I have been reluctant to enter into this dialogue, until now, because, unlike many of my fellows, the pain of my decade-long relationship with O~ remains with me every day and still denies me sleep on an all too regular basis. Writing to you now forces me to recollect these acrid events and encounters that I would rather not bring the surface; however, after following this discourse for a while I would like to set the record straight for you about the person you have became an apologist for.
Let me begin by saying that I have no financial, literary, theological, or artistic interest in anything that has anything to do with O~ or his surrogate, TFI. Nor do I care to debate theology (I’ll leave that bone to ya’ll). Wendy’s book stands alone as a thoroughly accurate account of her life “on the block” and differs from my personal experience considerable but the roots of our commonly experienced pain are exactly the same and are shared, almost unanimously, by those escapees still alive. Yes, some five or six of the most fragile former members are no longer able to speak to these atrocities!
For reasons I cannot comprehend, you have taken a stand for a person, a place, and a business that you have never met, been to, or participated in. Moreover, you have likewise discounted the experiences of a number of us who spent years under the “authority” of O~.
Unlike my fellows, who have given you tremendous counsel in these conversations, I would strongly encourage you to abandon your home, your family, your possessions, your conformability, “pick up your cross”, and move to the block. Spend a few years under O~’s rod and prove us all wrong. Perhaps, you will be the instrument for change that we were not. Perhaps, you’ll be the emissary that can create a bridge to reunited us all. At the very least, you will come to know what we have all learned to well: the operative definition of what it means to be the “Chief of Sinners”[/quote]
And, one more thing, we got this new person, Boanerges, who gets involved in the discussion even though he didn't really want to, and Cherenuff1 and NathanA, just ignore it! What is up with that??
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