The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
counselor47
()
Date: November 29, 2006 11:15PM
One thing I would like to see NathanA--or any current member of Trinity--address is the question I keep raising over and over and over again. Why is it nearly unanimous among the former members that Trinity is a cult? Can anyone name me any other group that is true of that is not really a cult?
As I said from the very beginning of this thread, Wendy's book is not just us in isolation as a couple of disgruntled former members. She interviewed many other former members while she was doing her research, AND WE STILL HAVE THE TAPES FROM THOSE INTERVIEWS. We can document everything we are saying. It is the overwhelming consensus of the former members that Trinity is a highly destructive group. This is not just Wendy and me saying this.
The essence of Nathan's argument has been to say, "Well, I don't believe you." At the end of the day, you cannot convince someone of something if they are unwilling to see it. I thought if we got some more former members participating it might make a difference, but it now seems that no matter what we say in this forum Nathan will find a way to say that it is unconvincing. If his only response to Boanerges was to warn Marion that we are all disgruntled former members, then I just don't know what to say. The only recourse I can see is for him to go to Dallas and live with Trinity and find out for himself what is really true.
Do not think, however, you can find out with just a visit. Ole and Company have been putting on dog-and-pony shows for visitors for years, and they have gotten quite good at it. That is one reason they have had so much positive press. A visitor (typically, a reporter) comes to the block, they feed them lunch, show them the tape archives, and maybe even let them attend a Bible study or two. The reporter leaves and writes a puff piece, and everyone thinks that means Trinity has been vetted. Then, when a couple of people actually do some research and write something thoughtful and penetrating (i.e. Wendy and Glenna) people discount what they say by comparing what they wrote to what was written by the groupies who did the little pabulum pieces. Therefore, if you really want to find out what the place is about, go with the intention of spending significant time there. You have to give yourself a chance to see them without their makeup on.
Good luck.
As I said from the very beginning of this thread, Wendy's book is not just us in isolation as a couple of disgruntled former members. She interviewed many other former members while she was doing her research, AND WE STILL HAVE THE TAPES FROM THOSE INTERVIEWS. We can document everything we are saying. It is the overwhelming consensus of the former members that Trinity is a highly destructive group. This is not just Wendy and me saying this.
The essence of Nathan's argument has been to say, "Well, I don't believe you." At the end of the day, you cannot convince someone of something if they are unwilling to see it. I thought if we got some more former members participating it might make a difference, but it now seems that no matter what we say in this forum Nathan will find a way to say that it is unconvincing. If his only response to Boanerges was to warn Marion that we are all disgruntled former members, then I just don't know what to say. The only recourse I can see is for him to go to Dallas and live with Trinity and find out for himself what is really true.
Do not think, however, you can find out with just a visit. Ole and Company have been putting on dog-and-pony shows for visitors for years, and they have gotten quite good at it. That is one reason they have had so much positive press. A visitor (typically, a reporter) comes to the block, they feed them lunch, show them the tape archives, and maybe even let them attend a Bible study or two. The reporter leaves and writes a puff piece, and everyone thinks that means Trinity has been vetted. Then, when a couple of people actually do some research and write something thoughtful and penetrating (i.e. Wendy and Glenna) people discount what they say by comparing what they wrote to what was written by the groupies who did the little pabulum pieces. Therefore, if you really want to find out what the place is about, go with the intention of spending significant time there. You have to give yourself a chance to see them without their makeup on.
Good luck.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 29, 2006 11:19PM
We may be disgruntled ex-members, but we are telling the truth. I am glad, Marion, you have the integrity to read the book. Nathan says to check out both sides, but that is the very thing he himself has been unwilling to do, even though he has been offered a free book.
[b:2fbb954a3c]I've read the book and from my perspective you are telling "part" of the truth. What I don't understand, is WHY Wendy left out a lot of other things. If you want to say that the book is truth then add the OTHER reason why your first wife left you, add the reason why Ole and others got so made during the choking incident. Add why Cricket left and add why. Don't just put in what Ole did. Why not put in what the members did?[/b:2fbb954a3c]
Nathan, I am disappointed in you. I thought you were making progress, but this seems like a regression. I am especially saddened by your lack of response to the touching post by Boanerges. I know it actually cost him something to write that, and yet you express yourself in a way that suggests that you see this all as some intellectual curiosity. These are real people whose lives have been damaged by the group you continue to defend, even though you have no real basis for doing so.
[b:2fbb954a3c]Of course you're disappointed in him...he refuses to take your side. Very ironic that you were all smiles and approval when he agreed with some parts of your spiel but when he disagreed you have turned away from him. I've told him that this is an anti-Trinity forum and that it is far from unbiased.[/b:2fbb954a3c][/b]
[b:2fbb954a3c]I've read the book and from my perspective you are telling "part" of the truth. What I don't understand, is WHY Wendy left out a lot of other things. If you want to say that the book is truth then add the OTHER reason why your first wife left you, add the reason why Ole and others got so made during the choking incident. Add why Cricket left and add why. Don't just put in what Ole did. Why not put in what the members did?[/b:2fbb954a3c]
Nathan, I am disappointed in you. I thought you were making progress, but this seems like a regression. I am especially saddened by your lack of response to the touching post by Boanerges. I know it actually cost him something to write that, and yet you express yourself in a way that suggests that you see this all as some intellectual curiosity. These are real people whose lives have been damaged by the group you continue to defend, even though you have no real basis for doing so.
[b:2fbb954a3c]Of course you're disappointed in him...he refuses to take your side. Very ironic that you were all smiles and approval when he agreed with some parts of your spiel but when he disagreed you have turned away from him. I've told him that this is an anti-Trinity forum and that it is far from unbiased.[/b:2fbb954a3c][/b]
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 29, 2006 11:27PM
Quote
counselor47
One thing I would like to see NathanA--or any current member of Trinity--address is the question I keep raising over and over and over again. Why is it nearly unanimous among the former members that Trinity is a cult? Can anyone name me any other group that is true of that is not really a cult?
[b:26626be87f]Er....I know of about 30 other members that don't feel the way you and these small handful of disgruntled members feel[/b:26626be87f]
As I said from the very beginning of this thread, Wendy's book is not just us in isolation as a couple of disgruntled former members. She interviewed many other former members while she was doing her research, AND WE STILL HAVE THE TAPES FROM THOSE INTERVIEWS. We can document everything we are saying. It is the overwhelming consensus of the former members that Trinity is a highly destructive group. This is not just Wendy and me saying this.
[b:26626be87f]Well of course not...she couldn't very well likely sell a book about a Dallas cult if she had actually tried to reach and interview non-disgruntled members? As for Glenna, I've talked to a few people that were interviewed, had nothing bad to say but their interviews never made it in the observer article. Why? Why did she not put the other interviews in? Why was the focus of her article about the small stuff Ole did as a kid?[/b:26626be87f]
The essence of Nathan's argument has been to say, "Well, I don't believe you." At the end of the day, you cannot convince someone of something if they are unwilling to see it. I thought if we got some more former members participating it might make a difference, but it now seems that no matter what we say in this forum Nathan will find a way to say that it is unconvincing. If his only response to Boanerges was to warn Marion that we are all disgruntled former members, then I just don't know what to say. The only recourse I can see is for him to go to Dallas and live with Trinity and find out for himself what is really true.
[b:26626be87f]In the essence of Seekers argument has been to way, "Well, I believe the book and not Trinity." At the end of the day, you cannot convice someone of something if they are unwilling to see it. I thought that I could at least give my own 15+ plus years experience here, but it now seems that not matter what I've said in this forum Seeking will find a way to say that it is still a cult because of the one book that they've read.[/b:26626be87f]
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 29, 2006 11:35PM
Okay...I've been away for some time so I will try to answer seekings questions.
Why do I want to have Ole as a bible study teacher if he is a big meanie? Well, first, he's not my bible study teacher. He's never been mean to me. He HAS been blunt in his opinions and teaching and I'd rather follow someone who will tell what they have to tell without the song and dance that alot of my former church preachers had done.
Just my opinion. I once had a preacher that was soooo sickenly sweet and nice but enjoyed kiddie porn at home. What type of teacher do you want? To each their own and to each their own way to Faith.
Why do I want to have Ole as a bible study teacher if he is a big meanie? Well, first, he's not my bible study teacher. He's never been mean to me. He HAS been blunt in his opinions and teaching and I'd rather follow someone who will tell what they have to tell without the song and dance that alot of my former church preachers had done.
Just my opinion. I once had a preacher that was soooo sickenly sweet and nice but enjoyed kiddie porn at home. What type of teacher do you want? To each their own and to each their own way to Faith.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 29, 2006 11:48PM
Seeking, Marion...
If you have other questions about the validity of the book, I can add the stuff that was never put in and you can go ahead and make a decision but I do not want to put it here for all the world to see, since it would hurt and embarrass alot of people. I would also say that you visit Trinity for awhile. Ole is rarely around but the bible studies still go on.
Marion, if you feel afraid for your cousin, why not talk to your cousin?
Good luck in your search.
If you have other questions about the validity of the book, I can add the stuff that was never put in and you can go ahead and make a decision but I do not want to put it here for all the world to see, since it would hurt and embarrass alot of people. I would also say that you visit Trinity for awhile. Ole is rarely around but the bible studies still go on.
Marion, if you feel afraid for your cousin, why not talk to your cousin?
Good luck in your search.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 30, 2006 12:00AM
Quote
zeuszor
Hi Marion. I was a member of the Trinity Foundation for about five months, beiginning in March of '06 and ending in early last August. I was the assistant to the Foundation's lead investigator, a man named Pete Evans. Ole Anthony is a pathologically dishonest, deeply narcissistic, and cynically abusive man. I heard about the book and the Dallas Observer article, posted at:
[www.dallasobserver.com]
also more at
[www.dallasobserver.com]
...while still involved with the Foundation. And after careful honest and objective analysis on my part believe that I have seen behind the curtain of lies he's taken care to weave and have beheld the bitter, cynical, angry, abusive little man whose name is Ole Anthony. I tried to defend them at first; look at the beginning of this thread and you'll see that at first I lived there and was caught up in denial too. I exhort you Nathan: this organization, while arguably having had done a service to the church in exposing religious crooks who eat the sheep that they should be feeding, is certainly nothing to hold up as an upstanding Christian ministry, and Ole Anthony certainly is nobody I'd want to encourage anybody to associate with. Indeed, he is the epitome of a false teacher (and I'm just talking about Ole's behavior as an abuser for starters; I haven't even described to you the blasphemous, heretical doctrine he teaches, presenting himself every step of the way as somebody with some kin of "anointed", special insight insofar as his twisted interpretaion of the Scriptures.) He has managed, because of his charismatic, manipulative genius and gift for a snappy quote, to stay under the radar of serious scrutiny for years, unlike, say, somebody like Hinn. Ole, however, is twice the hypocrite Hinn ever was, and that's saying something.
This man has left a wide path of psychic debris from his many abusees strewn about over a more than thirty-year period and it's time he stopped getting a pass. I only was closely associated with him for five or so months and left with the nasty taste of Ole's fruit in my mouth. Please Nathan, I beg you, take heed to what I write. It's time he be held accountable, after contriving a long career forcing accountability from others.
Don't forget to mention to Marian that you could barely do your job because of you being 'high' on marijauna most of the time and that you were kicked out because a church took you in to help you get back on your feet yet you smoked POT on the church premises around where children were at times!. If I had known this and if I had known that you were around my children while you were high, I would have called the police, but they didn't want that for you and asked you to leave and find your own place to live.
Is it ever a wonder that you could never "hear" what we may be teaching if your ears were blocked by drugs?
Please don't forget to let everyone else here know that you have apologized to me offline and you WANT ME TO GIVE MY LOVE AND SAY HELLO to people here at Trinity. WHY? Why would you want to give your love and have me say hello to those that you don't like?
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
counselor47
()
Date: November 30, 2006 12:29AM
Quote
If you want to say that the book is truth then add the OTHER reason why your first wife left you...
That is so below the belt and so ad hominem I should not bother responding to it, but to set the record straight:
1. You do not even know my ex-wife. We were divorced before you even came to Trinity.
2. The only way you could know anything about our relationship is through something I said during a confessional moment in a Bible study, when there would have been a reasonable expectation of confidentiality, or through the gossip of people who are still there.
3. That has nothing to do with the subject of this forum. It is just a personal attack.
Let me say, I know tons and tons of stuff about all of the elders at Trinity, stuff that was confessed in environments where there was a reasonable expectation of confidentiality. I have NEVER brought any of that stuff up into any discussion. Admittedly, there are things about me I have spoken of under the seal of the confessional that I don't want brought up either. Bringing those kinds of things into the discussion is WAY out of bounds.
As a matter of fact, there was some stuff about Ole that Glenna wanted to put into her article (stuff some other people said, not me or Wendy) and I convinced her not to put it in, even though I had personal knowledge it was true. Some things are just plain out of bounds, Michelle.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 30, 2006 12:42AM
Quote
counselor47Quote
If you want to say that the book is truth then add the OTHER reason why your first wife left you...
That is so below the belt and so ad hominem I should not bother responding to it, but to set the record straight:
1. You do not even know my ex-wife. We were divorced before you even came to Trinity.
2. The only way you could know anything about our relationship is through something I said during a confessional moment in a Bible study, when there would have been a reasonable expectation of confidentiality, or through the gossip of people who are still there.
3. That has nothing to do with the subject of this forum. It is just a personal attack.
Let me say, I know tons and tons of stuff about all of the elders at Trinity, stuff that was confessed in environments where there was a reasonable expectation of confidentiality. I have NEVER brought any of that stuff up into any discussion. Admittedly, there are things about me I have spoken of under the seal of the confessional that I don't want brought up either. Bringing those kinds of things into the discussion is WAY out of bounds.
As a matter of fact, there was some stuff about Ole that Glenna wanted to put into her article (stuff some other people said, not me or Wendy) and I convinced her not to put it in, even though I had personal knowledge it was true. Some things are just plain out of bounds, Michelle.
Doug, I have no interest bringing up stuff that was of a confessional matter. The stuff that I refer to is nothing but what YOU yourself have not told me personally during your time as my bible study leader. The point that I'm trying to get across is that there are always two sides to a story. Wendy's book can't just claim that the she, you and the ex-members were so sorely abused by Trinity without adding ALL of the truth. I don't see any attacks at all.
I don't understand. You wrote the book. You brought it here for discussion and debate. I have just said that it is a book full of 1/2 truths and wonder why the other truths of the matter have not come out? I, for one, will not divulge the other truths, even though it would be hurtful toward the book.. Why? Because it would be hurtful toward you, Wendy and some of the other members. If any of you were really honest, you would have put those other truths in the book. You would have shown the ENTIRE happenings.
I am getting that I do not have your permission to debate the full validity of the book by bringing up things that are pertinent to the books honesty and integrity. Don't worry, I won't do it without your permission or permission of others. I'm not going to just hurt people like that for the sake of some silly argument.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 30, 2006 01:06AM
[b:44f86aa238]An ad hominem fallacy consists of asserting that someone's argument is wrong and/or he is wrong to argue at all purely because of something discreditable/not-authoritative about the person or those persons cited by him rather than addressing the soundness of the argument itself. [/b:44f86aa238]
1. Never said you were wrong. I just question the validity of the book (that you brought here to the forum). My argument is that the book state 1/2 truths and I was just asking questions as to why the other truths haven't come into play. I've never discredited you because of your past or involvement with Trinity. I just discredit the book which is the main focus of the forum.
2. Of course, I have been discredited quite a bit of times. Apparantly, according to you and Zeuszor, I cannot fully and logically discuss Trinity because I have been on "the fringe" of the group. Even though I have been apart ofr 15+ years, since I disagree with the points of view that you and Zeuszor have made, I must then be "on the fringe/outskirts/etc.".
Isn't that and ad hominen attack. Questioning the validity of my statements due to the fact that you "think" I'm in the fringe of Trinity?
1. Never said you were wrong. I just question the validity of the book (that you brought here to the forum). My argument is that the book state 1/2 truths and I was just asking questions as to why the other truths haven't come into play. I've never discredited you because of your past or involvement with Trinity. I just discredit the book which is the main focus of the forum.
2. Of course, I have been discredited quite a bit of times. Apparantly, according to you and Zeuszor, I cannot fully and logically discuss Trinity because I have been on "the fringe" of the group. Even though I have been apart ofr 15+ years, since I disagree with the points of view that you and Zeuszor have made, I must then be "on the fringe/outskirts/etc.".
Isn't that and ad hominen attack. Questioning the validity of my statements due to the fact that you "think" I'm in the fringe of Trinity?
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: November 30, 2006 01:26AM
I tell you all what.
My family and I are in the process of looking for another place to live. Perhaps another city or even another state. It will be about a year from now and I am actively looking at other churches in other cities.
I've told some people this and was even given some suggestions on churches. To me, I really don't want to have to travel over an hour to get to church, even though Trinity is my spiritual home.
I'll be leaving on good terms. I'll be back for the feasts and such. No one has said anything negative to us about it except that they will miss us. I will try to help out with the Door Magazine at times and will definitely be around for the poker parties.
I'll let everyone know how my exit from this church takes place...ok?
My family and I are in the process of looking for another place to live. Perhaps another city or even another state. It will be about a year from now and I am actively looking at other churches in other cities.
I've told some people this and was even given some suggestions on churches. To me, I really don't want to have to travel over an hour to get to church, even though Trinity is my spiritual home.
I'll be leaving on good terms. I'll be back for the feasts and such. No one has said anything negative to us about it except that they will miss us. I will try to help out with the Door Magazine at times and will definitely be around for the poker parties.
I'll let everyone know how my exit from this church takes place...ok?
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