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I have to ask another question. Why would you want a leader or preacher who, as you, Cherenuff, said about your leader, "(Ole Anthony) can be pretty judgemental and harsh. He can be an ass and he's been told that too. He even admits that he's an ass."

Doesn't sound like the kind of person I would want as a leader. Maybe that's just me.

And doesn't the Bible say that the fruits of the spirit are love, peace, joy, kindness, gentleness, etc? It sounds to me like Ole's fruit is anger, arrogance, antagonism, abuse, aggressiveness, and antipathic.

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I have to ask another question. Why would you want a leader or preacher who, as you, Cherenuff, said about your leader, "(Ole Anthony) can be pretty judgemental and harsh. He can be an ass and he's been told that too. He even admits that he's an ass."

Doesn't sound like the kind of person I would want as a leader. Maybe that's just me.

And doesn't the Bible say that the fruits of the spirit are love, peace, joy, kindness, gentleness, etc? It sounds to me like Ole's fruit is anger, arrogance, antagonism, abuse, aggressiveness, and antipathic.

Cherenuff, you didn't respond to these questions either.

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Cherenuff, I can understand your desire to defend and protect a place that you are a member of and that has helped you with your children. But how do you explain the large number of former members in Wendy Duncan's book and the Dallas Observer article who consider Trinity Foundation to be cultic and spiritually abusive?

I could understand if you thought it was just Wendy and Doug Duncan, but how do you account for the testimony of other members who left Trinity Foundation? Are they all wrong? Are they all just disgruntled? Are they all just people who couldn't cut it at Trinity Foundation?

Hey Cherenuff, how come you didn't respond to my questions?

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cherenuff1

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zeuszor
I always liked you. You were always nice to me.

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I like myself too... :lol: You're a nice guy but sometimes when you were here I wondered if you didn't say what you actually felt at times. I could see that you had problems with some of the doctrine but I think you tried too hard to be too nice...if that makes sense.

You are right. While I was with TFI I learned to suppress my doubts and keep my questions to myself. I didn't say what I actually felt at times, because I didn't feel like being embarrassed in front of everybody. I [i:f08910a4bb]always[/i:f08910a4bb] thought the "You are the Antichrist" doctrine was BS. I did try too hard to be [i:f08910a4bb]liked, accepted.[/i:f08910a4bb] Ole loathes people that try and be his friend or express admiration for him, yet at the same time he demands and feels entitled to it. I wanted so badly for my preconcieved ideas to conform to reality! I wanted so badly to believe in TFI! But all I got from Ole was ridicule and impatience, verbal abuse. "Ole, I want to be your friiieeend!" He'd say mockingly. HG too. He was always such an angry little man.


[b:f08910a4bb]¶ [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. [/b:f08910a4bb]

I never saw much good fruit of the Spirit in Ole's walk, nor HG's (his especially). Just arrogance, anger, antagonism, condescention, mean-spiritedness...just read your Bible and think for yourself. That's all I can say. Ole is not the only person in the universe who can rightly divide the Word. Little Bella has more understanding of the Scriptures in her little finger than Ole has in his whole body. In fact, he's about as far from a "biblical guru and tough guy" as the East as from the West. He's a modern-day Diotrephes and it's long past time he was exposed for who he [i:f08910a4bb]really[/i:f08910a4bb] is. Him and all his cronies. He's simply invented a doctrine that serves to gratify his sense of self-importance and entitlement and allows him to be in control of people, all in the name of "servanthood". Not servanthood under Jesus, servanthood under Ole.

[b:f08910a4bb]1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. [/b:f08910a4bb]

Who is TFI [i:f08910a4bb]really[/i:f08910a4bb] all about serving? Jesus or Ole? Who are [i:f08910a4bb]you[/i:f08910a4bb] really following?

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And Brian, as far as anyone attacking your character. It wouldn't seem necessary as your character is quite on display here.

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NathanA
Okay, I feel I should communicate clearly what i mean when I said that I question if Wendy knows the Jesus who came to give his life a ransom for many. I cannot of course speak of salvation, but I mean that she does not seem to believe in a Jesus who demands that your life be a sacrifice without condition. That you can't nurse your victimhood or justify selfish anger. That is not the cross.

When I talk to those who have been sexually or physically abused, I understand that anger is a normal part of healing. I do not however nurture or feed those angry sentiments, because they become a destructive force. Rather we hope to lead people into grace and forgiveness. If they don't come to that, they risk becoming abusers themselves. You can justify all kinds of terrible behaviors if you will only see yourself as a victim.

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NathanA
What is muddled about my logic? All I am saying is that those of us who know the grace of God also know that we don't have rights, but that we offer up ourselves as living sacrifices. I am saying that that quote from Wendy's book disagrees with that theology.

Nathan, please explain to me IN YOUR OWN WORDS what the phrase "we don't have rights" means.

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When I say we don't have any rights I mean that as a disciple of Christ, you no longer keep any right to yourself, even self-preservation. You are completely a vessel that belongs to God, to do his bidding alone.

Please restate that point in your own words. I get the image that Gary is standing over your shoulder, prompting you about what to say when in actuality, you don't have any idea what "you have no rights" really [i:6e920c214f]means[/i:6e920c214f]. Shoot, [i:6e920c214f]I[/i:6e920c214f] have no idea what that means. It sounds deep and profound, but in all reality it's about as shallow as a kiddie pool in terms
of giving an explanation about why Ole habitually treats people like dirt. He has contempt for anybody that's not as smart as he thinks he is. Here's Ole's version of Romans 9 in a nutshell:

[b:6e920c214f]
Vessel of mercy=anybody who agrees with Ole Anthony's point of view and is willing to follow his lead.

Vessel of wrath=anybody that does not agree with OA's opinions and is not willing to uncritically swallow whatever he says.
[/b:6e920c214f]
Here's a few more translations of TFI-isms for you:

[b:6e920c214f]
Antichrist mind=your mind when it is not conforming to OA's opinions and view of the world.

Pick up your cross, enter the rest, get on the mercy seat, just be=
"You brute beast. You have started thinking independantly and uncritically and must repent of your pride. You have a rebellious spirit. Let Ole be in charge. The only mind and senses we can trust are his!"[/b:6e920c214f]