Ohr sameyach and AISH are organisation who constantly insist that science and religion are two parts which can be connected. At an AISH seminar in Israel, they teach Gerald Schroeder theory about how the scientists actually also believe that the world is 6000 years old. Moreover they come with very strange arguements which are either manipulated or twisted to a huge extend.
Have any of you heard anything more about those two organisations? Does anyone know how to get newly observant jews back to a normal life, after being involved with those outreach movements?

AISH has a shabbat, which seemingly is a very convincing one. Most of those who went there said, that that was the best experience. Does anyone in here know the techniques they use during their sabbat meals in order to convince people? Has anyone participated in such an arrangement?

See [www.culteducation.com]

Quite a few Jewish famlies have complained about both Aish and its yeshivas such as Ohr Samayach.

I for one won't be a part of the pain and suffering when judaism crashes and burns.

Do you think that "Judaism" can only be defined according to an Orthodox understanding?

There are other denominations of Judaism such as Conservative and Reform Judaism.

Over the centuries Judaism has evolved and changed, but today it seems as if the ultra-Orthodox want to stop the clock.

The affiliation rate is higher in the US as opposed to Israel, where Jews essentially have only one choice, i.e. Orthodox.

Firstly, the notion that there are other "sects" of Judaism is not completely true. Reform Judaism officially does not believe anything in Judaism is binding; it is mostly "cultural" Judaism, just practiced because that's what our ancestors did and for no other reason. Conservative Judaism feels like it can change laws completely. Orthodox Judaism also evolves...new decisions are constantly being made regarding modern issues. However, they do not change previous laws---something that is clearly accounted for in the basis for Judaism. Conservative Judaism has changed it to be more "convenient" rather than what it actually is.

Secondly, Aish and Ohr Someach can hardly be considered "cults." Neither of their main bases involves the "science and religion" combination; Dr. Schroeder never stated that "most scientists believe the world is 6000 years old," and even religious Jews will acknowledge that the world is not 6000 years old, as that counting begins with Adam. Schroeder proves that through Time Relativity the period of "6 days" before Adam was created can be perceived as 15 Billion or so years, depending on perspective (he claims the 6 days is from God's point in non-time/beginning looking onward). In fact, most of what science has found is accepted by the majority of observant Jews...they never claim that "science and religion are two parts which can be connected," as their idea is that the Torah (both written and oral components) contains everything.

Finally, Aish doesnt have a "Shabbat." It may host a "Shabbat Experience." Shabbat just means "Sabbath" or "Saturday." A "Shabbat Experience" may involve spending Shabbat with an observant family to see how it is. There is no "convincing" involved in a Shabbat experience, but the Jewish Sabbath happens to be a very satisfying and relaxing experience. Aish doesn't really do "convincing" as much as it presents that which Judaism holds, and lets people make decisions. They are not out there to force anything, as a core belief in Judaism is that of "free will..." you make your own decisions between right/good and wrong/evil. No one can make those for you or force you to make them. However, it is only fair that both sides present you with their arguments. Most of the people attending Aish lectures have only been presented with the secular/Reformed Jewish argument...so they take the chance to present theirs. You make your own decision. No one at Aish was surreptitiously pulled into Orthodoxy.

I myself am not an Orthodox Jew, though I have many friends that are and I know many people that have studied with Aish. It bothers me to see such misconceptions and slander about a group which has brought joy to so many. Anyone who has attended any number of lectures at Aish will tell you it's not brainwashing, though they are clearly arguing for Orthodox Judaism. The vast majority of people who attend their lectures/trips/seminars do not turn to Orthodoxy, but the overwhelming majority are happy with the experience and glad to learn more about their Judaism which their parents/Reformed Hebrew School did not teach them. Many do some things...some start keeping kosher, or even keeping Shabbat. After attending some Aish lectures, I myself have agreed with some things. Most significantly, when I do go to a synagogue, I go to an Orthodox one. After hearing their lectures, and subsequently doing my own research, I did find that Conservative and Reformed Judaism are really cop-outs and "conveniencies."

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Reform Judaism officially does not believe anything in Judaism is binding; it is mostly "cultural" Judaism, just practiced because that's what our ancestors did and for no other reason. Conservative Judaism feels like it can change laws completely.

This is an opinion that reflects the growing intolerance amongst radical ultra-Orthodox Jews regarding the other denominations of Judaism.

Thankfully, it doesn't represent a majority view.

The two largest denomination of Judaism are Reform and Conservative, which are not officially sanctioned or allowed in Israel. Perhaps this is why Israel, which only allows Orthodox officially, has a lower affiliation rate than the United States.

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Aish and Ohr Someach can hardly be considered "cults."

Neither Aish or its affiliated school Ohr Somayach have been identified as "cults" through the Ross Institute database and this is a false argument.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This disclaimer is linked from every page of the Web site.

Both Aish and Ohr have generated serious and repeated complaints from Jewish families including Orthodox Jewish families. Based upon those complaints and statements made by those influenced by Aish and Ohr, much like the above quoted member of this board, I would not recommend Aish or Ohr to anyone under any circumstnces.

Aish uses "Shabbat" as something like a lure to get unwary Jews to "experience" what they want and then draw them deeper into their layered programs.

The ultimate goal of Aish and Ohr is to bring Reform and Conservative Jews out of their respective denominations and into their version of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. And though this recruitiment goal is usually not realized it nevertheless reflects thier intention.

Aish and Ohr will insist, much like other fundamentalists, that thier version of Judaism isn't a version at all, but rather "true Torah Judaism."

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I myself am not an Orthodox Jew...when I do go to a synagogue, I go to an Orthodox one...I did find that Conservative and Reformed Judaism are really cop-outs and 'conveniencies.'"

This is essentially what Aish and Ohr teach their students.

The above quote reflects the sentiments at Aish and Ohr.

Ironically, Aish and Ohr both solicit donations from Reform and Conservative Jews that probably don't really understand their agenda.

That is, that they are "true Torah Judaism" and other Jewish denominations are "really cop-outs." Not exactly and opinion that would garner support from other Jews affiliated with different denominations such as Reform and Conservative.

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Anyone who has attended any number of lectures at Aish will tell you it's not brainwashing,

The complaints from Jewish families indicate otherwise.

Aish/Ohr has repeatedly been accused of "brainwashing" American Jewish tourists in Isreel. These are typically young people, that started out on vacation and were instead sucked into Aish/Ohr. These recruits then often gave up school, work, previously set goals and relationships to study at times for years with Aish/Ohr and stayed in Israel.

Recruiting was often done at the Western Wall and began with a simple invitation to a dinner or "Shabbat."

See [www.culteducation.com]

Families should be aware of all this before sending their kids to Israel for any programs or vacations.

Some of the most hateful and nasty emails I have ever received from any group mentioned on the Ross Institute database have been from Aish and Ohr participants, which have denounced other Jews (e.g. Reform and Conservative) and have expressed often extreme, bigoted and even violent sentiments.

My brother is currently being indoctrinated by this group. It appears, they know exactly what they are doing. From what I hear, they are known to take emotionally unhealthy people (addicts, depressives...) and provide them with a new drug -Ultra Orthodox Judaism which leaves no room for any other type of interpretation.
I am very concerned about my brother but I wonder if this would last considering that he has a tendancy to go to extremes about everything... aliens, Jews for Jesus... metal bending... he will believe anything. Is it not just an escape mechanism then?
My question is; are cults more successful on unsatisfied people willing to believe anything just to escape their reality or not?

Also, how are the people around them supposed to act?

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Dan JJ
Have any of you heard anything more about those two organisations? Does anyone know how to get newly observant jews back to a normal life, after being involved with those outreach movements?

AISH has a shabbat, which seemingly is a very convincing one. Most of those who went there said, that that was the best experience. Does anyone in here know the techniques they use during their sabbat meals in order to convince people? Has anyone participated in such an arrangement?

I was at Aish for about 2 months back in '95 and I also heard Dr. Schroeder teach. As far as how to get people reintegrated back into mainstream life it depends on how far in they got in the Baal Teshuvah movement in the first place. I had ongoing religious issues with orthodoxy during most of my life because I had relatives who were modern orthodox (Young Israel movement) and I saw a lot of positives there. But Aish and Or Sameach are haredi seminaries.
I spent a few Sabbaths at Aish and they are very slick. The food is good, the facilities including the dorms are basically well-maintained but I can tell you it's a numbers game. If they get 100 people in and 2 "remain Jewish" so to speak, they consider it a victory.
My family got totally burned out on religion in general. Religion can be a very sticky topic.

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rrmoderator
Do you think that "Judaism" can only be defined according to an Orthodox understanding?

There are other denominations of Judaism such as Conservative and Reform Judaism.

Over the centuries Judaism has evolved and changed, but today it seems as if the ultra-Orthodox want to stop the clock.

The affiliation rate is higher in the US as opposed to Israel, where Jews essentially have only one choice, i.e. Orthodox.

The orthodoxy seems to be the only Jewish movement that continues into the future in "Chutz La'aretz" (outside of Israel). The assimilation rate for the Conservative and Reform movements is at about 50%.
Modern Orthodoxy as of yet has yet to come into play when it come to the BT movement. I think my family was affiliated with Shor Yoshuv in Far Rockaway, NY. Also, Avi Weiss of Hebrew Institute of Rivendale wanted to start a BT yeshiva.
I don't think everything about orthodoxy is necessarily bad, but it doesn't work for every one.
The Haredim (both Chasidic and Mitnaged) are definitely anachronistic.
They seem to think that all change is bad.

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StephBaxter
My brother is currently being indoctrinated by this group. It appears, they know exactly what they are doing. From what I hear, they are known to take emotionally unhealthy people (addicts, depressives...) and provide them with a new drug -Ultra Orthodox Judaism which leaves no room for any other type of interpretation.
I am very concerned about my brother but I wonder if this would last considering that he has a tendancy to go to extremes about everything... aliens, Jews for Jesus... metal bending... he will believe anything. Is it not just an escape mechanism then?
My question is; are cults more successful on unsatisfied people willing to believe anything just to escape their reality or not?

Also, how are the people around them supposed to act?

The basic problem we're dealing with here is that Orthodox Judaism produces many functional people and these BT yeshivas probably believe that they're doing everyone a favor. But for people from non-Orthodox homes, they can wind up destroying those families.