We do not always get programmed. We come into this world with programs like computers vis the mind.
To give our power away to an external force is something that exists in most of us.
Why are humans afraid to tap into their own strength? We often become slaves of addiction, abusive relations, cults, religions...
Religions offer many good guidelines as how to be a better peron and have good values.
However we become dependent on the external savior. How many Christians are waiting for the Apocalypse and the return of the Messiah?
We are told to act passively because God is in control. His plan is perfect....
So we just let all kinds of abuses happen in the world because a higher being is in control.
We are encouraged to be overly humble, tolerant...
Even though those are good qualities, they can also become very disempowering as We allow everybody to walk all over us.
Most religions teach us that we are insignificant fallen souls the fell from heaven. That we deserve all that is happening due to Karma...
I believe that we are being kept small by design. If anybody thinks that everything is randome in this plane, they have to think again.
We are made to feel guilty if we try and tap into our own divine nature and feel empowered.
As soon as something happens we run and ask for help from divine forces before we even try to help ourselves.
We cannot always blame gurus for taking our power away. We are the ones who gladly give it away. I am not sure if it comes from being lazy or if it is too hard to make an effort and tap into our own power.
We must do our best not to feel like victims but to accept that we have given our power away.
Until we learn to step in our own power, we will always fall for the external savior.
Not many learn to be self-reliant and self-sufficient. It is at times the hardest thing to depend mostly on our own abilities.
Why can’t a person believe in God and not feel so small at the same time?
How come we cannot easily establish our own relationship with a higher power without passing by a guru, priest, rabbi....
We must understand that most things are just programs that are installed in our psyche. we are not robots and we do not have to obey to every single program that is running.
When we give our power away, we have almost nothing left. We are at the mercy of the person we have given our power away to.
To be empowered it is not the same as being powerful. A rich man. A politician. A king... Can half power and be considered powerful.
One can be empowered without being rich, famous, strong...
It is an internal force and not external. It’s some thing that nobody can take away once we tap into it.
Most religions, especially the eastern paths, does not encourage empowerment.
We must repeat the mantra that we are nothing all day long.
And that there is this external being who is empowered by God in order to lead the masses.
We must escape the Truman show that has been built for each and everyone of us.
When we leave a cult, It will take time before we realize that we even have some power because we have given our power away for so long.
An empowered human being is one that does not need to feed off others because thei inner fridge is full.
We must take responsibility for our own load instead of dumping it on a guru or Jesus on the cross.
Time to become spiritually mature and stop expecting a teacher to give us the bottle. I am not against having a genuine teacher. I am against acting like babies around them and expecting them to make every single decision for us.
Of course by we, I mean humanity in general not the people in this forum.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We must take responsibility for our own load
> instead of dumping it on a guru or Jesus on the
> cross.

For one thing: Lord Jesus (according to the Bible) is no longer on the cross. Christians (and others, like myself) believe that He is alive even now, having resurrected on the third day after His crucifixion. To put Him back on the cross is inaccurate and misleading.

For another thing: taking responsibility for one's own load, you say? You mean, like, as in the law of karma?

My understanding is that karma (basically) says that whatever happens to you (whether you perceive it as "good" or "bad") is ultimately your own responsibility, and nobody else's. It's all a consequence of something you did either in this body, or or in some other body. Isn't it so?

Personal responsibility? Isn't that exactly what the law of karma says anyway? If not, then what's the difference?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2021 03:11AM by The Whirlwind.

PS: The concept of karma is not exclusive to Krishna conscious philosophy, nor to "Hinduism" in general. Even an atheist could believe in karma, you know. As in Buddhism, for example.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2021 03:23AM by The Whirlwind.

My post is not specifically about Karma and Eastern philosphy.
Don’t Christians always say Jesus died for our sins on the cross or bathe in the blood of Jesus!
Well even if Jesus is not on the cross anymore, him on the cross is the symbol That is in most churches. And the cross is the symbol people wear around their necks.
Same with the Martyrs of the Shia muslims. They love to glorify the martyrs that dies for Islam.
Why would anybody has to die for my sins? I would personally hate that.
Don’t Christians often say offer your load to Jesus?
Isn’t the guru supposedly taking on the Karma of disciples?
We as humans can sometimes play savior by carrying the load of others. I have often done this as an empath and learned the hard way.
Every single person must learn their own lessons and not dump the load on someone else.
Asking for divine help and guidance is different than waiting for someone to come and save us. Or think that guru is the chosen one who hears God crystal clear. He and his associates know what is best for us...
While they often give pretty crappy instructions IMHO.
Hope my answer makes sense. I cannot really debate more. I just write these posts time to time when I feel inspired.
Everything I share is based on my own journey and perosnal experiences.
I have learned to be 100 times stronger without guru and a group.
Or having someone hit me on the head with the stick 24/7 to go down like a straw.
If some get happiness from mopping the floor with their bodies, more power to them.
In my experience, that kind of humility is like bleeding in shark infested waters.
We are supposed to be that humble while the gurus themselves can be quite arrogant.

The Bible and the Bhagavad-gita both say that God is always giving instruction from within, AND from without.

Paramatma (or caitta-guru, "the guru within") gives instruction in this way. Please see:

[vaniquotes.org]

The Holy Spirit (in Greek, the Paraclete) is also called (in the Bible) "the Teacher of all things" and "the indwelling Spirit".

The paraclete also gives instruction from within and from without: Acts 8:26-40, 1 John 2:27.

The Ethiopian eunuch did not know what he was reading, until Philip came and taught him (in other words, served as his guru and "initiated" him).

So (from the Scriptural point of view, no matter whose Scriptures one is using) we need BOTH an outside teacher (or "guru") AND the help of the Indwelling Spirit of God. Or, we can be atheists, and think it all a bunch of nonsense. And I do not take you for an atheist, Truth wins.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2021 05:21AM by The Whirlwind.

PS: Yes, the cross is a commonly-accepted symbol of Christianity, Truth wins. However (except as things are within the Roman Catholic tradition with respect to the display of the crucifix) crosses are always depicted EMPTY, since HE IS RISEN.

...so all that to say that I agree with you, Truth wins. To seek an "external savior" is not necessary, since (Scripturally speaking) the "savior" is both within AND without. The kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU, as Jesus said (Luke 17:21).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2021 05:42AM by The Whirlwind.

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...so all that to say that I agree with you, Truth
> wins. To seek an "external savior" is not
> necessary, since (Scripturally speaking) the
> "savior" is both within AND without. The kingdom
> of God IS WITHIN YOU, as Jesus said (Luke 17:21).

An "external savior" is not necessary (or even recommended) since (karmically speaking) one "saves" oneself. Guru alone does not "save" the disciple. Luke 9:23.

One (from the point of view of the Scriptures) DOES need an external teacher/guide/guru, however, in order to confirm and build upon that which Supersoul and caitta-guru reveal.

Not to put too fine a point on it...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2021 08:59AM by The Whirlwind.

A teacher, guru.... is very beneficial to some extent. I often meet people who have reached mastery in their lives and let them preach to me as to how they got there. Or get inspired by some souls who live by exemple.
However this whole I put my life, my soul, my energy, my heart in the hands of a mortal being who is supposed to be perfect results in what we have seen with all the abusive teachers. In all religious systems. Not just Vaishnavism.
It makes people lazy as to relate themselves with the divine powers.
In our case, we almost had to ask permission to go to the toilet. This is absolutely disempowering.
I have nothing against being lower than the straw on the street and falling flat on one’s face 20 times a day. There is some joy to be found in such humility.
It would be OK if it is in a safe setting and that the guru himself is that humble.
In scripture, the associates of Lord Chaitanya were all that humble and they hung out together in the spirit of love.
These days the most dangerous people can often be the devotees and the gurus themselves.
So when we see that the sysytem has failed and so many have been damaged in religious setting, we must understand that the system is not working.
Everybody will be led to whatever is meant for their souls journey.
I do not discourage taking on a guru. But the whole system of Guru is as good as God in this day and age has proven to be rather dangerous.
Micromanaging the lives of students and disciples take away their ability to take responsibility. Follow their instincts...
It is just too much and too suffocating.
Even those who have the potential to be warriors are damaged by the guru. Look at Gabbard. Look how the instructions of the guru has damaged her reputation.
The lies and all.
Her potential as a warrior is being wasted. She does not have the ability or the will to say. Hey guru. I will not lie to few hunfred million people to gain votes.
You see what I mean? Anything that disempowers a person must be thrown in the garbage.
What is the point of a guru both helping and hurting followers?
I prefer no knwoledge. No spirituality... than a schizophrenic one that is mixed with love and fear. Truth and lies. Hate and friendship....
This is why people still act like Aholes after 30 years.
No guru is better than the half ass gurus we have been handed so far.
These things I post just come to me and I write them and I do not remember what I wrote. It is almost dictated to me. So people can take it or leave it.
It is the fruit of years of research, experience, suffering, trauma, mind issues, fighting demons (literally)....
I do it outside of the war zone (butler thread)as I am done with exposing the dark side of the group.
These are just general discussions that will always somehow have the theme of bhakti yoga in it since it was the path that both helped and destroyed me.
Not so much the path but the group dynamics. We must use our critical thinking and look at the mess religions have created.
Put fanaticism aside and understand that unfortunately it is a mixed bag.
People do not have the intelligence to take the good and leave the bad.
They go for the whole pacakge. Accept abusive gurus, put up with the non sense of other followers, allow mind control....
The days of trusting guru and other bhaktas are over.
We are walking amongst wolves and sheep mixed together and we need to carry very heavy armors instead of just trusting blindly.
My goal is to empower and educate people. To help them not step on vipers and get bitten.
Look at all the whimps and cowards who are not able to stand up for themselves nor for their fallen friends. Where is that false humility leading?
Jesus (be it real or fiction) was both a Saint and Warrior. He was a peaceful warrior. Stood against Satan himself many times (real or fiction). He would cast out demons and used rigtheous anger.
Lord Chaitanya himself was about to kill Jagai and Madhai when they went too far.
What is this new generation of brainwashed so called lovers of God?
One who lacks courage lacks everything. Courage means to be willing to lose everything in order to keep our integrity.
When people are willing to lie, cheat, hurt... in the name of guru, they are in the illusion that they have power.
Deities shower those who worship and love them. They love being worshiped. So people take this bliss and spiritual boost as a sign that they have achieved great stages and that God has got their backs.
A person like myself bows to noone but I will not stand and watch souls get abused.
I like the new version of myself 10000 more than the surrendered, mindless blissful devotee who had to play the Simon says game 24/7.
To me the devil is FEAR. And fear is the only ennemy I fight every day.
When we fear, we have no power. PERIOD. Be it fearing guru, God...
All religions have proven themselves to be fear based. Even Vaishnavism that invites people to commit suicide if they are offensive or hear offenses. Screw that seriously. We must walk on the offenses eggshells all day long?
If it makes sense to some it does not make sense to me.
I find the Vedas to be deeper than other scriptures but I am sorry to say that I do not accept anything as absolute truth. As we have already discussed it, this forum is meant for critical thinking. Let us put sentimentalities aside and get real. Look at the results. Look at the mess. Look at the reputation of SoI and Iskcon. What have we achieved? More shame than glory.
If you are sensitive to those who disagree with scripture, you are in the wrong territory. I mean this with all respect. I would not be here 10 years ago myself.
I leave passivity to the sweet souls who question nothing and faithfully trust rascals who pose as spiritual leaders.
I hang out with warriors. Not cowards.
I share my truth. What others do with it is none of my business.
I hope that this long explenation makes sense.

Truth wins Wrote:

> To me the devil is FEAR. And fear is the only
> ennemy I fight every day.
> When we fear, we have no power. PERIOD. Be it
> fearing guru, God...
> All religions have proven themselves to be fear
> based. Even Vaishnavism that invites people to
> commit suicide if they are offensive or hear
> offenses.

First: do you know what the Latin root of the word "adore" is, Truth winds? It is "adorare", which means "worship" or "fear". This is not the kind of fear that one would have of a loaded gun, for example, but rather the fear one would have of the power of the Sun.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom", as the Good Book says (Proverbs 9:10).

Next: that's bullshit. Vaisnavism does not invite people to kill themselves if they are offensive or hear offenses. Where did you come up with such nonsense?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2021 05:35AM by The Whirlwind.