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Corboy: None of the above has anything to do with the mystical forces that drove facet to Krishna Consciousness. This facet person is completely off-topic (with respect to of the topic of this thread) and is contributing nothing to the discussion except (as facet puts it) "comedy response". Can't you do something about this troll?

This is ok, though not all of my responses are comedy response I think it is incorrect to blanket absolutely everything that I post like that.

Making a judgement of people is a really great asset to have especially when having gone through instances where people do not have our best interests at heart. It does not matter if you are correct or not, the point is that it works for you.

I made a separate thread to add the information that some here I respect may find difficult to mix with.

I think it’s great that you are mixing with non adherents, though I understand the levels of contamination that may ensue from your perspective, so hopefully you can rest assured now that you won’t find any materials like this and also myself generally posted in this thread at least.

I said what I wanted to say, and observed what I needed to observe. It is never my intention to come to the forum to make allies. I have no need for it.

Take good care of yourself, wish you all of the very best with your trusted professional therapy too.

It is my wish that absolutely anyone involved on the receiving end of abusive treatment in these groups can find release from it one day, and most importantly, not to blame themselves. Not one should be overlooked.

If any posts need to be removed I understand :-), and if there is any residual vitriol, I suggest saving it for the abusers. At least then it is going to the correct place.

Godspeed all !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 04:33PM by facet.

Corboy: facet (throughout all their participation here) has NEVER ONCE described or explained the mystical forces which drove them to Krishna Consciousness, but instead has contributed distraction after distraction from the topic of this thread.

Facet also does facet's best to misrepresent my position as best they can.

Look, I live in Dallas, for Pete's sake. They Turley lawsuit started here. This is Ground Zero. Nobody has to explain ISKCON's abuses to me, and I never defended abuse or abusers. I fact, I have done the opposite.

Frankly, I wish facet would just the hell shut up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 10:23PM by The Whirlwind.

One more time: I would defend the basic beliefs and practices of the organization, but not the organization itself. I DO NOT defend or apologize for abuse or abusers. Some of the kids who were abused in Dallas back in the old days, are still devotees. They do not all hate Prabhupada and ISKCON, and that's my attitude too. From December 6, 2001:

Despite being the first victim to publicly expose gurukula abuse, Raghunatha refused to join the lawsuit. He wants all abusers and the leaders who concealed them brought to justice, but not at the expense of destroying Prabhupada and his religion. "Prabhupada was like this little old grandpa, and then you had these wicked stepdads, who are now the fathers of the religion," Raghunatha says. "But don't go after grandpa or a religion that offers us an irrefutable spiritual experience. Go after the wicked stepdads."

[www.dallasobserver.com]

This (above) article is almost twenty years old. It's old news to me and anybody else who is a part of ISKCON.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 10:30PM by The Whirlwind.

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One more time: I would defend the basic beliefs
> and practices of the organization, but not the
> organization itself. I DO NOT defend or apologize
> for abuse or abusers. Some of the kids who were
> abused in Dallas back in the old days, are still
> devotees. They do not all hate Prabhupada and
> ISKCON, and that's my attitude too. From December
> 6, 2001:
>
> Despite being the first victim to publicly
> expose gurukula abuse, Raghunatha refused to join
> the lawsuit. He wants all abusers and the leaders
> who concealed them brought to justice, but not at
> the expense of destroying Prabhupada and his
> religion. "Prabhupada was like this little old
> grandpa, and then you had these wicked stepdads,
> who are now the fathers of the religion,"
> Raghunatha says. "But don't go after grandpa or a
> religion that offers us an irrefutable spiritual
> experience. Go after the wicked stepdads."
>
> [www.dallasobserver.com]
>
> This (above) article is almost twenty years old.
> It's old news to me and anybody else who is a part
> of ISKCON.

PS: this part of the Observer article is not accurate. Nobody worships Prabhupada "as a god." That's just not true at all. And I am not a Hindu.

ISKCON leaders are hard-pressed to deny these charges, particularly since research they commissioned documents findings of severe abuse throughout the gurukula system. Yet not every abused Krishna kid has joined the lawsuit. Many believe it goes too far, seeking to destroy their religion and implicate their spiritual founder, Srila Prabhupada--whom they worship as a god--in a conspiracy to conceal the abuse. His ascetic Hindu teachings, some of which are rabidly chauvinistic and racist, still captivate their spirits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 10:48PM by The Whirlwind.

"I have instructed everything in my books." --Srila Prabhupada; SPL (VI 1987) Dina Dayala das 25/02/76

There is a precedent involving devotees making claims for and about Srila Prabhupada, that Prabhupada never made for and about himself. These claims involve deifying Prabhupada, making him into a "godman" (such as calling him the "savior of the entire universe", for example). In the summer of 1970, four sannyasis at New Vrindaban began preaching that Prabhupada was himself Krishna (God), in the flesh. But Prabhupada put the kibosh on that madness pretty quickly, and fired and banned (but later reinstated) the four sannyasis who were preaching the deviant philosophy. Prabhupada never said or wrote that ISKCON is his body, so I don't buy that one either. I think that some sannyasis made that line up, in order to make criticism of ISKCON, as an institution, a sinful thing for devotees to do. Prabhupada is not a godman, and I do not believe that ISKCON is his body. If it's so critical to believe that ISKCON is Prabhupada's body, then why did Prabhupada not write that down, or at least make sure somebody recorded him saying so?

But the cancer had not been checked. Halting in Japan en route to India, Prabhupada learned that four of his new renunciants had begun preaching a strange gospel. At a huge gathering of ISKCON faithful at New Vrindaban on Krishna’s birth anniversary, 1970, they had announced that by leaving America, Prabhupada had rejected his disciples for failing to recognise that Prabhupada was actually Krishna Himself. This was nothing but another aspect of impersonalism. While Kirtanananda had previously failed to distinguish between the personal and impersonal conceptions of Godhead [during his bout with maya three years earlier], the new sannyasis had failed to distinguish the guru from the Godhead. Vaishnavas teach that the guru is the servant of God, but never the Godhead Himself. A Vaishnava spiritual master will never say that he is God or that God is impersonal.

[www.harekrsna.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 10:55PM by The Whirlwind.

I don’t care what anybody says or thinks. Every single person has a different relationship with the divine. It does not matter what deity or religion one relates to.
I respect everybody and I try really hard to understand how some people think everything is bogus.
Souls are at a different level of evolution. We must have the humility to accept this. And each person has different spiritual abilities and some have absolutely none.
Not everything can be proven or explained scientifically.
What a god damn boring reality this would be if there was absolutely no magic and things we cannot explain.
Many years ago, I introduced Japa meditation to a person. Sent them some beads. They had never sat with guru, read scripture, been to a gathering, had an altar.
He started chanting on the beads. He told me that a mini Vishnu appeared to him once. And also that Krishna would play with him by pulling on his beads when he was chanting.
As I have already mentioned it, most people who stay and put up with the abuse, is because of those out of the ordinary interactions that solidifies their faith.
Otherwise it would be absolute masochism to follow a path that brings only misery.
There is 1000000 percent something special about it. And the Maha Mantra is not an ordinary mantra. It does purify and change the hearts.
There is a story called Mrgari the hunter in the Srimad Bhagavatam. I recommend it.
I have seen comments on Youtube when it comes to beautiful Maha Mantra chants. Some people say: I do not know what this is but when I listened to it, I could not stop crying.
My years of following this process cannot be considered a total waste.
Unfortunately nasty devotees, disciples, being under the microscope of 50 people 24/7, the fear, control... never allowed me to fully enjoy it.
I cannot imagine how amazing it would have been with a genuine guru and very loving association instead of that mental hospital.
There is truly nothing to defend. A person either gets something out of a process or they do not.
Some got nothing out of it and hate the process, philosophy... Fine.
Some got much out of it, love the philosophy... Fine.
Some have not even tried the process and think it is bogus. Fine.
Let us respect our differences without getting fanatical and stubborn about who is wrong or right.
There is no wrong or right. There are just different opinions and a lack of personal experiences with the mystical and supernatural.
I myself resent the path quite often. For being directed to an abusive and controlling situation. For many other things...
But I will firmly say that for ME, the Mantras had extreme potency and I have been blown away more than once by the synchronicities and other supernatural factors related to the path.
Gurus may be pedophiles, drug dealers, narcissists. Iskcon and SoI may be like shark infested waters...
The Mantras are not material and come from a diffrent realm. The fake gurus would be NOTHING without the power of the Mantras that has been handed down to them for free.
These are my personal observations and experiences. Take it or leave it.
Peace!

You know something about Krishna conscious philosophy that I really like, Truth wins? It's that in every "bona fide" picture of Krishna that you will see, Krishna is never pictured alone. There is always at least one other living being in the picture. Even Krishna's paraphernalia are living entities and not inanimate objects. So Krishna is never pictured alone. Krishna is never alone, period. That's because this whole thing is about experiencing different types of reciprocal relationships, with God and with one another (because it's sort of the same thing). That's one aspect of the philosophy that I like a lot. I find it sublime, beautiful.

God is simultaneously and inconceivably at one with, and yet separate from, His Creation. Everything that we are experiencing at the present moment, is the result of the interactions between the energies and activities of God. This is Krishna Consciousness. This is the "mystical force" which drove me to Krishna Consciousness: the energies and activities of God.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2021 10:02AM by The Whirlwind.

Sorry everybody for the bad vibes and nasty exchanges on this post. I am not sure how it got so ugly. I myself have been in a very bad space and regret the way I interacted. Since deleting is not an option, we must really weigh our words.
I hope that from now on if anybody joins the conversation, it can be in a spirit of peace.
I understand that many of us carry heavy baggage and times are hard right now.
I appologize for not being more tolerant.
Hoping to gradually forget about the whole SoI journey and whatever unseen and seen forces that pushed me into it.
Feels like a tumor that I have been carrying for a long time. I cannot wait for the day I no longer remeber them. Be it good or bad times.
I also hope that those forces will respect my free will and leave me alone.
I never chose to stand against them. I was pushed into kt again by the same forces who never left me alone all these years. That is a whole other story I will not share.
RIP SoI! I wish I had never found that meditation brochure.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry everybody for the bad vibes and nasty
> exchanges on this post. I am not sure how it got
> so ugly. I myself have been in a very bad space
> and regret the way I interacted. Since deleting is
> not an option, we must really weigh our words.
> I hope that from now on if anybody joins the
> conversation, it can be in a spirit of peace.

Some people are not here to describe the mystical forces that drove them to Krishna consciousness. They're only here to preach atheism and distract from the real topic of the thread. I'm not sorry that I dealt harshly with such trollishness, to be very frank.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2021 09:58PM by The Whirlwind.