Truth wins Wrote:
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> If I have offended you in any way, I appologize. I
> am far from being perfect.

Likewise. I apologize if I have offended you in any way, and I myself am far from perfect.

> I did not even know ACB brought this philosophy to
> the West. I thought it was the opposite. LOL!
> Seriously?
> You had to point that “”inattention” mistake out
> in such a sarcastic manner?
> Or maybe you assumed that I am THAT clueless.

"Seriously?" is right. If somebody who claimed to be into Krishna Consciousness did not even know that Prabhupada brought the philosophy to the West (and not the East), then I cannot help but question the veracity of everything else that they had to say.

In other words: if somebody did not even know that, then I cannot help but suspect that such a person was just full of it. That's very very basic history. Anybody (who claimed to know about Krishna Consciousness) who did not know that would be clueless indeed, quite frankly.

But I am not calling you a liar, and I am not saying that I do not believe you. I am saying that if somebody was that ignorant of the subject matter, then it makes me question everything else that they are expressing. I am sure you can understand that.

> Some people like Ian, did not chose this. Were thrown in it by parents. Some
> were born into it and they keep pretty bitter memories since childhood.
> They may have zero attraction to Krishna. They were literally thrown into
> worship both deities and guru since they had a pacifier in the mouth.
> So of course they will not present the philosophy in an honest way.

That's why I generally take stuff with a grain of salt, when it's coming from people who were born and raised in ISKCON or its related groups, and who subsequently left the faith. They're obviously biased in a negative way, and are not real objective about stuff (no offense, Ian).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2021 08:47AM by The Whirlwind.

PS: I know this may sound odd to you, Truth Wins, but I do hope that we can still be friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2021 09:03AM by The Whirlwind.

Zizl and The Whirlwhind,

Much appreciated, wishing you both very best in your endeavours.

There is no chance that toleration support for abuse, or an abusive group will come from me.

Those adults no matter what religion involved in that do not act when they are told of abuse, are partaking in the continuation of it. There are many accounts of those at the top who did not act.

To continue to preach about the faith where others come to repair comes across as advertising to try and clean up the perception. Many large groups like this have people online on the forums like this doing exactly that, they also place links around and set up false websites to try and obtain the IP addresses and locations of users they see as a direct threat due to the fact that they have been called out for abuse...or simply decide to dislike or demonise due to their own alternative belief set being held as prized with an intolerance to others as the dissonance is too uncomfortable.

There are many religiously intolerant examples throughout history that can be found if looking for them. I do not include myself in that category.

Ps- there is a big difference between what you say is trolling, and comedy response. Surely as someone dishing things out you would not expect to have some sort of come back? Coming across as a fairly disgruntled Russell Brand The Whirlwind, I would have thought you far better would have known this fact.

No time for play and inclusion of others when it comes to Krsna hey. What a conflict.

It is not suited for everyone.

A mystical force for me does not equals a intentionally placed book in a fashion store. It also does not equals karma as reasoning for abuse.

An excellent documentary that explains how people misuse mystic / magical type forces for anybody interested is called “An Honest Liar” featuring James Randi and co. It is available to watch in online various places.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2021 08:40PM by facet.

Extra note :

For those who might be intolerant to sexuality based on wether it serves the religion or not, the mentioned documentary “An Honest Liar” features gay people.

Whilst it has been tolerated, I understand the overall stance on this type of relationship within Krisna Consciousness and its offshoots is:

Quote
"In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life."

As mentioned on Wikipedia

Corboy: None of the above has anything to do with the mystical forces that drove facet to Krishna Consciousness. This facet person is completely off-topic (with respect to of the topic of this thread) and is contributing nothing to the discussion except (as facet puts it) "comedy response". Can't you do something about this troll?

Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and all that goes on in it, and he never claimed to be. He was not an expert on every topic under the sun, and he did not know everything about everything. Just because he spoke his opinion about a given thing pertaining to the material world, this does not mean that that must be my opinion too.

Prabhupada said that human beings are the only form of life on this planet which will engage in homosexual behaviors. Yes he did. Look it up in Vaniquotes.

Well, it's just not so.

Apparently, Prabhupada was not familiar with the bonobo (to name an example).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2021 11:12PM by The Whirlwind.

The Whirlwind Wrote:
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> Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect
> to the material world and all that goes on in it,
> and he never claimed to be. He was not an expert
> on every topic under the sun, and he did not know
> everything about everything. Just because he
> spoke his opinion about a given thing pertaining
> to the material world, this does not mean that
> that must be my opinion too.
>
> Prabhupada said that human beings are the only
> form of life on this planet which will engage in
> homosexual behaviors.

Here is one example of Prabhupada saying so. There are more. He called homosexual behavior "homosex".

"The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male." --Srila Prabhupada

[vanipedia.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 01:43AM by The Whirlwind.

The Whirwind, no hard feelings. It is all good.
I may have many faults but dishonesty is not one of them. I am as transparent as it gets. As I said it before, I am just giving a very soft version of my fringe experiences. Also since I am the only one who witnessed and lived them, I cannot prove it. And I do not really need to prove anything. It is not like I am selling a product.
I have not read all the scriptures and I am not well versed in the Vedas but I do know that basic information that ACB brought the teachings to the West.
I feel that this forum teaches us a great lesson in tolerance and not censoring others.
I think you should let go of Facet’s comments. I realized that trying and control what others say, do... is a residue from my years with SoI.
We should all try and keep it civil.
This forum is extremely valuable and is helping many people. We cannot know the past of each person who is in here.
We all deal with our own wounds and baggages. We must show each other compassion regardless the diffrent point of views.
Those who challenge us the most also help us grow and we must ask ourselves why we get annoyed....
It is all a question of mind, false ego... If we act toward each other on a soul level, then we would not clash like this.
Faith is a very personal choice. Some of the most stellar human beings I have met, are not necessarily spiritual. They still have influenced me in changing my heart.
Let us go of the negative energy and just allow people be themselves without attacking each other.
I hope that from now on if there is still activity on this post, it will be in a spirit of respect regardless the huge differences in beliefs and opinions.

Truth wins Wrote:

"I have not read all the scriptures and I am not well versed in the Vedas but I do know that basic information that ACB brought the teachings to the West."

Me neither, Truth wins. I have not read every single one of his books and I cannot quote you slokas in Sanskrit, but I do know what Prabhupada did and did not teach. I've researched these things very thoroughly, if I may say so myself.

The first time I started to read Bhagavad-gita As It Is, I was an atheist. A week later, I was no longer an atheist. This is the "mystical force" which drove me to Krishna Consciousness, the "great mystery" as Prabhupada called it (in the Introduction to Bhagavad-gita As It Is).

[vedabase.io]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 02:29AM by The Whirlwind.

Truth wins Wrote:
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> Krishna Consciousness is not made of a body of
> people. It is not something a person joins or
> leaves.

YES...exactly.